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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 12:39:28 GMT -6
Lost thirty minutes of my life on this. The summary is that Silver Bullet is still awesome.
So I was trying to do a quick and dirty master for a single I'm putting out for my band. I finally realized that what was annoying me was too much saturation on the drum bus so back to the mix I went to fix it. But then I mixed down and A/B's and... wtf? The whole song sucked. How could the drum bus saturation make that much difference?
We're talking song in a tin can with zero width in comparison.
I'll save you how I figured it out but the point is it didn't. That's how much difference the SB was making which I had bypassed when doing some testing on another track I was mixing and forgot to take out of bypass.
If it wasn't such a PITA to share files I'd post them. Zero changes between tracks but SB on or off.
(To be fair, I mix into the SB and I use pretty aggressive settings on it these days. Like I run it close to red and I'm pretty close to diming the EQ's for mucho big smiley. A lot of the difference is that I did an entire mix pushing into those rather dramatic settings, but still...)
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Post by copperx on Jan 29, 2023 12:53:20 GMT -6
Interesting. Have you ever mixed without the SB on the mix buss, and just slapped it on at the end?
I'm just curious how the results differ.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 29, 2023 12:54:02 GMT -6
I'd kinda like the hear the difference.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 13:37:59 GMT -6
I'd kinda like the hear the difference. I knew someone was gonna say that... haha, I'll upload later today. EDIT uploaded below |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 13:46:28 GMT -6
Ok here it is... didn't take too long. Here's the version with no SB. on.soundcloud.com/a5xVLHere's the version with SB. on.soundcloud.com/EqQTMFor reference SB is set the following way... keep in mind I'm driving the signal pretty good here. It's pink most of the the time. N -> A A - 1 o'clock and 10 o'clock N - 10 'olock and 2 o'clock Tight in, tone in, bass/sub in, air/pres out Low at 3 o'clock high at max Vintage in |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 13:48:49 GMT -6
One other factor to keep in mind, the SB is pushing into a Tegeler Audio Creme so it's not the only thing in the chain. The lower volume of the bypass impacts the compression a bit, but what is huge is the way the lack of saturation and lack of SB impact things. The voice sound like it's on a different mic.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 13:57:46 GMT -6
Interesting. Have you ever mixed without the SB on the mix buss, and just slapped it on at the end? I'm just curious how the results differ. Yeah, the main difference is that I have to be more conservative with the Mojo settings. If you don't know the SB terminology that's what they call the drive/saturation from the pre-amp modeling. Push that s*** right at the end and you're going to have a totally different mix! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 29, 2023 14:06:18 GMT -6
yeah, def gives it a little more bottom end and I think I hear it crushing a little more.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 14:11:50 GMT -6
yeah, def gives it a little more bottom end and I think I hear it crushing a little more. While I’ve got you. Are you still using ozone 10? Demoing right now. That and Audiolens is a good combo. Metric AB or whatever it’s called is very tricky to use with streaming services. Bought like $15 worth of tracks from Apple last week only to find out it couldn’t read them. Plugging in 10 or 12 reference tracks and then zipping around to see which one the master assistant lines up best with my mix? Well it’s certainly fun at least! These are pretty low leverage singles that I’m just self releasing for free to tease some new material, so paying for mastering is not on the table. |
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Post by ragan on Jan 29, 2023 15:16:29 GMT -6
yeah, def gives it a little more bottom end and I think I hear it crushing a little more. While I’ve got you. Are you still using ozone 10? Demoing right now. That and Audiolens is a good combo. Metric AB or whatever it’s called is very tricky to use with streaming services. Bought like $15 worth of tracks from Apple last week only to find out it couldn’t read them. Plugging in 10 or 12 reference tracks and then zipping around to see which one the master assistant lines up best with my mix? Well it’s certainly fun at least! These are pretty low leverage singles that I’m just self releasing for free to tease some new material, so paying for mastering is not on the table. Curious about the ‘couldn’t use the tracks from Apple music’ thing? Why not? I‘ve bought tracks for this exact reason and never had an issue throwing them into MetricAB. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 29, 2023 15:25:05 GMT -6
Yeah...my apple tracks work. Is there some setting where they're AAC or mp3 or something and Ozone doesn't read one or the other? I honestly use Tonal Balance to get everything where I want it more than going back and forth comparing tracks. I think Ozone 10 has the thing where you can have it listen to a particular song and match it...haven't tried that yet though...still using TB2
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 15:31:22 GMT -6
While I’ve got you. Are you still using ozone 10? Demoing right now. That and Audiolens is a good combo. Metric AB or whatever it’s called is very tricky to use with streaming services. Bought like $15 worth of tracks from Apple last week only to find out it couldn’t read them. Plugging in 10 or 12 reference tracks and then zipping around to see which one the master assistant lines up best with my mix? Well it’s certainly fun at least! These are pretty low leverage singles that I’m just self releasing for free to tease some new material, so paying for mastering is not on the table. Curious about the ‘couldn’t use the tracks from Apple music’ thing? Why not? I‘ve bought tracks for this exact reason and never had an issue throwing them into MetricAB. It was some sort of weird Apple Movie format that MetricAB couldn't recognize. Frankly I've been having a ton of trouble with iTunes just in general, they really really want to push you to streaming instead of buying stuff. I'm sure there's user error involved but I'm pretty good with tech and have never had this problem before with MetricAB. Spent almost an hour on it and then gave up and just used my older references. But it sparked the bug to comb through my other tools and find another solution. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 15:34:05 GMT -6
Downloaded as HLS Media? It gives me an Apple TV logo. Just tried to download from iTunes Store again going to previously purchased and downloaded in the same format, can't seem to find a setting to change it or whatever I chose to make it this way to begin with.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 29, 2023 15:42:35 GMT -6
Just tried the AI thing using a specific song and it was kind've crap. I usually will have it listen and make its own decisions...then I usually change it to "country" because I tend to like the starting points there. Then I go in and tweak. The imaging AI is completely fubar'd...bass is pushed into wide and top end pushed into mono...so I go in and change that and turn off the mono recovery thing...then EQ to get it within my standard Tonal Balance graph thingy. I averaged a bunch of songs I like and I've found when I stick to that, I'm golden.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 15:59:58 GMT -6
Just tried the AI thing using a specific song and it was kind've crap. I usually will have it listen and make its own decisions...then I usually change it to "country" because I tend to like the starting points there. Then I go in and tweak. The imaging AI is completely fubar'd...bass is pushed into wide and top end pushed into mono...so I go in and change that and turn off the mono recovery thing...then EQ to get it within my standard Tonal Balance graph thingy. I averaged a bunch of songs I like and I've found when I stick to that, I'm golden. The imaging is very weird. Agreed. |
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Post by seawell on Jan 29, 2023 16:20:07 GMT -6
Sounds like iTunes may be downloading immersive versions. Try going to Settings and under the general tab see if "download dolby atmos" is checked. If so, you can uncheck it and then delete the current versions and re-download in a stereo AAC format.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 29, 2023 17:32:13 GMT -6
Sounds like iTunes may be downloading immersive versions. Try going to Settings and under the general tab see if "download dolby atmos" is checked. If so, you can uncheck it and then delete the current versions and re-download in a stereo AAC format. Not checked. First thing I looked for! |
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Post by plinker on Jan 30, 2023 0:49:14 GMT -6
I really like your song. I'm afraid it's going to ear-worm me to bed  I'm not sure how I feel about the SB version. It seems a bit congested. I think I prefer the mix without. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 30, 2023 8:43:17 GMT -6
I really like your song. I'm afraid it's going to ear-worm me to bed I'm not sure how I feel about the SB version. It seems a bit congested. I think I prefer the mix without. Interesting! I feel like the non-SB version sounds like it’s singing into a cardboard box. On my speakers the SB version is much wider though it is also more compressed. Just goes to show. Thanks for the compliment though! Ear worm city, yeah. |
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Post by copperx on Jan 30, 2023 8:49:48 GMT -6
I love the song.
To me, the version without the SB is much better. The SB version imparts a nice tone to the music, but it flattens the vocal dynamics and makes it almost silabant. It feels overdriven.
I don't think the song needs any extra 'mojo.' It's awesome as it is.
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Post by ragan on Jan 30, 2023 8:52:18 GMT -6
Curious about the ‘couldn’t use the tracks from Apple music’ thing? Why not? I‘ve bought tracks for this exact reason and never had an issue throwing them into MetricAB. It was some sort of weird Apple Movie format that MetricAB couldn't recognize. Frankly I've been having a ton of trouble with iTunes just in general, they really really want to push you to streaming instead of buying stuff. I'm sure there's user error involved but I'm pretty good with tech and have never had this problem before with MetricAB. Spent almost an hour on it and then gave up and just used my older references. But it sparked the bug to comb through my other tools and find another solution. So these are music tracks/songs but they downloaded as movie files? |
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Post by ragan on Jan 30, 2023 8:57:40 GMT -6
Cool track gravesnumber9. It's kinda The Band and Velvet Underground lovechild or something. I dig it! Sonically, I prefer the non-SB version. The SB version sounds really scooped to me and a more natural presentation without the mids scooped out fits the aesthetic better for me. Totally subjective obvs. |
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Post by miadaudio on Jan 30, 2023 8:58:46 GMT -6
Very nice song!
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Post by plinker on Jan 30, 2023 9:08:39 GMT -6
I just re-listened and I'm leaning towards the SB version now. I like what it's bringing; maybe just a bit less of it would help with the congestion that I'm hearing. I suck at mixing, so there's that...
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 30, 2023 9:12:21 GMT -6
gravesnumber9 I think you're being a little hard on yourself — the version without the SB doesn't suck at all! In fact, it's really not that drastically different.
My preference for this mix would be no SB. With the SB, the low end gets a little flabby and the midrange starts to sound less cohesive. Not a dealbreaker or anything, though. Both sound fine.
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