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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 27, 2023 11:45:39 GMT -6
I think I know what this is, and it's a bit of a drag. It's not the Soyuz. I've had 7 surgeries in the last 2 1/2 years, each one involved intubation. My voice is now a little raspier than it used to be, and somewhat hollow sounding. I think what Shadow may be hearing is simply the way John's voice sounded at that moment that day. We're all getting older and time is affecting our voices, especially if we're not singing a lot regularly.
The Soyuz 0-17 is actually a very rich and full sounding mic. It's kind of like a U67 with a SMOOOOTH button on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 11:48:36 GMT -6
This sounds money even on an iPhone. The most I’d do is TDR Nova GE to de-ess it a tiny bit, maybe de-mud it a bit if that’s a problem in the mix, and expand down the breaths with the wide band expansion maybe keyed to them.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 27, 2023 12:06:43 GMT -6
I think I know what this is, and it's a bit of a drag. It's not the Soyuz. I've had 7 surgeries in the last 2 1/2 years, each one involved intubation. My voice is now a little raspier than it used to be, and somewhat hollow sounding. I think what Shadow may be hearing is simply the way John's voice sounded at that moment that day. We're all getting older and time is affecting our voices, especially if we're not singing a lot regularly. The Soyuz 0-17 is actually a very rich and full sounding mic. It's kind of like a U67 with a SMOOOOTH button on. I don't disagree with what you're saying...but Jeesh...now I'm old. lol I literally turned on everything, sang a snip, adjusted things and came back and sang that, While I don't disagree with what you're saying about age affecting voices, I also think it's just more likely I A) didn't really give a shit because the point was the vocal chain, B) I didn't warm up (I never have really...I probably just do enough takes until it sounds right) and C) My voice changes kind've daily. Or if I'm hungover. Or if it's the morning or the night. Or if I have a cold, etc. But yes - it sounds like a cleaner 67 to me. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 27, 2023 12:15:30 GMT -6
I'll say this, I've now listened to this thing an unhealthy amount because of this thread. And a couple of observations. I won't use Soundcloud anymore. It definitely takes a shit on the quality. I hear the (too) slow release that I chose on the V-comp a couple of times - you can hear it on the word "right" in right or wrong...but I'm not sure anyone would care in a mix. The sta's aren't clean. They're color boxes adding harmonic distortion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 12:27:29 GMT -6
I'll say this, I've now listened to this thing an unhealthy amount because of this thread. And a couple of observations. I won't use Soundcloud anymore. It definitely takes a shit on the quality. I hear the (too) slow release that I chose on the V-comp a couple of times - you can hear it on the word "right" in right or wrong...but I'm not sure anyone would care in a mix. The sta's aren't clean. They're color boxes adding harmonic distortion. Yeah I remember Dave Gramble took one apart and said the sta was “more of a self-defeating mic pre than a compressor” Found it www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=384536&start=60 |
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Post by chessparov on Jan 27, 2023 12:41:21 GMT -6
Honestly, after reading the V-Comp page, I learned a few things. I haven't been pushing the input hard enough...just habit from years of using the Retro. If I had a Retro SL on double with the input at 1-2:00, I'd be getting -20 or -30 lol. I'm going in at about -25db and getting -10-15 ish GR. I've also always used faster release on vocals, but this thing is great around 11:00. audioscapeChain is - Soyuz 017 Tube-->H2 0011-->AS V-Comp-->Burl AD. Here's the Wav file - drive.google.com/file/d/1YAMIgqE9UUuYgGAGEkHW6hMHc-nrKzR8/view?usp=share_linkSounds great to me John. You're blessed with a wonderful/soulful Tenor voice.  So many strong singers here, I feel like I'm hanging out at a Broadway backstage! Chris |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 27, 2023 12:51:45 GMT -6
I'll say this, I've now listened to this thing an unhealthy amount because of this thread. And a couple of observations. I won't use Soundcloud anymore. It definitely takes a shit on the quality. I hear the (too) slow release that I chose on the V-comp a couple of times - you can hear it on the word "right" in right or wrong...but I'm not sure anyone would care in a mix. The sta's aren't clean. They're color boxes adding harmonic distortion. Yeah I remember Dave Gramble took one apart and said the sta was “more of a self-defeating mic pre than a compressor” Found it www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=384536&start=60Dave Gamble really doesn't know what he's talking about. hahahaha. it's true. He appears to understand very little of how these compressors work, because it's very easy to describe if you do. No idea who he is and he hasn't said anything that makes me think I should listen to him. |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 27, 2023 12:53:31 GMT -6
I won't use Soundcloud anymore. It's gotten so much better than it used to be, but still...... |
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 27, 2023 13:03:50 GMT -6
I think this is a great vocal recording and I don't hear a single thing to complain about.
Checked on monitors and headphones — sounds rad on both.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 27, 2023 13:36:51 GMT -6
Dave Gamble really doesn't know what he's talking about. hahahaha. it's true. He appears to understand very little of how these compressors work, because it's very easy to describe if you do. No idea who he is and he hasn't said anything that makes me think I should listen to him. I haven't read the thread in question (just took a glance), but Dave Gamble is DMG Audio, maker of EQuilibrium, Limitless, Essence, Compassion, and a bunch of other plugins. No idea if he knew what he was talking about with regards to a Sta-Level in 2013 or not, but he's a smart dude who's made some very good plugins over the years. Not disputing your take on his posts in that thread, Doug - I wouldn't know either way. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:04:27 GMT -6
Dave Gamble really doesn't know what he's talking about. hahahaha. it's true. He appears to understand very little of how these compressors work, because it's very easy to describe if you do. No idea who he is and he hasn't said anything that makes me think I should listen to him. Yeah that quote from years ago popped up in my brain when John mentioned the sta and color. His 1176, dbx 160, and API 2500 models in trackcomp2 sound and behave nothing like the hardware. I’d rather use Waves if I can avoid CLA 76 |
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Post by robo on Jan 27, 2023 14:13:29 GMT -6
The clip sounds very nice to me. Polished, smooth, and rich. This inspires me to be bolder when using my V-comp!
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Post by robo on Jan 27, 2023 14:21:09 GMT -6
Based on my regular use of DMG Trackcomp and hardware 1176, API 2500, I disagree with Dan's assessment above. I regularly use Trackcomp to set up rough mixes which I then run through hardware in the mix. The hardware sounds richer and more forgiving, but I've never had any surprises when making the switch.
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Post by copperx on Jan 27, 2023 14:44:28 GMT -6
Most of that radio stuff is CL 1B on vox Wait ... So you're saying that the CL1B and not the 1176 is the most often used compressor on vocals? What genres are we talking about here? |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 27, 2023 14:52:11 GMT -6
Dave Gamble really doesn't know what he's talking about. hahahaha. it's true. He appears to understand very little of how these compressors work, because it's very easy to describe if you do. No idea who he is and he hasn't said anything that makes me think I should listen to him. I haven't read the thread in question (just took a glance), but Dave Gamble is DMG Audio, maker of EQuilibrium, Limitless, Essence, Compassion, and a bunch of other plugins. No idea if he knew what he was talking about with regards to a Sta-Level in 2013 or not, but he's a smart dude who's made some very good plugins over the years. Not disputing your take on his posts in that thread, Doug - I wouldn't know either way. It’s described kinda like a man trying to sell something else would. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:55:58 GMT -6
I'll say this, I've now listened to this thing an unhealthy amount because of this thread. And a couple of observations. I won't use Soundcloud anymore. It definitely takes a shit on the quality. I hear the (too) slow release that I chose on the V-comp a couple of times - you can hear it on the word "right" in right or wrong...but I'm not sure anyone would care in a mix. The sta's aren't clean. They're color boxes adding harmonic distortion. Yeah, issues were heavily exacerbated on Soundcloud. Same with that Shelford recording I did, the top end just sounds weird compared to the original.. |
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Post by noob on Jan 27, 2023 15:09:15 GMT -6
Most of that radio stuff is CL 1B on vox Wait ... So you're saying that the CL1B and not the 1176 is the most often used compressor on vocals? What genres are we talking about here? I've seen 1176 used more in rock, CL 1B more recently in pop and hip hop. I assisted at a major recording studio for a few years and CL 1B was on almost every single pop vocal they did. Miley Cyrus, Jazmine Sullivan, Meek Mill to name a few. But a lot of times I've seen people use both. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:19:13 GMT -6
Based on my regular use of DMG Trackcomp and hardware 1176, API 2500, I disagree with Dan's assessment above. I regularly use Trackcomp to set up rough mixes which I then run through hardware in the mix. The hardware sounds richer and more forgiving, but I've never had any surprises when making the switch. What? Like the CLA 76 and Black Rooster FET, the Trackcomp 76 cannot peak limit vocals, which defeats the 1176’s point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 15:21:47 GMT -6
I'll say this, I've now listened to this thing an unhealthy amount because of this thread. And a couple of observations. I won't use Soundcloud anymore. It definitely takes a shit on the quality. I hear the (too) slow release that I chose on the V-comp a couple of times - you can hear it on the word "right" in right or wrong...but I'm not sure anyone would care in a mix. The sta's aren't clean. They're color boxes adding harmonic distortion. Yeah, issues were heavily exacerbated on Soundcloud. Same with that Shelford recording I did, the top end just sounds weird compared to the original.. I mix a lot of drum covers for a friend and client. The SoundCloud and YouTube codecs take the subtle high hat work out. I have to mix the overheads slightly too bright for them to cut through. I usually take the hard sounding high hat tapping being picked up by low overheads (to pick up the kit) out with keyed transient shapers or de-edger and leave the high hats in without the hard stick strike, de-ess crashes, and limit them to take the snares down albini stye if they’re really loud. Then I’ll use a shelf to get the cymbal shimmer and drum volume perfect in the overheads as an image of the whole kit. On CD this translates 100% from the daw but the streaming codecs are worse than a 320 kbps mp3 so I’ll learned to hold back a bit for YouTube stuff. |
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Post by copperx on Jan 27, 2023 15:27:39 GMT -6
Based on my regular use of DMG Trackcomp and hardware 1176, API 2500, I disagree with Dan's assessment above. I regularly use Trackcomp to set up rough mixes which I then run through hardware in the mix. The hardware sounds richer and more forgiving, but I've never had any surprises when making the switch. What? Like the CLA 76 and Black Rooster FET, the Trackcomp 76 cannot peak limit vocals, which defeats the 1176’s point. I understand, Dan, but in my experience an 1176 doesn't peak limit vocals either. Yes, it reduces the average peak volume, but vocals can still come out "pointy" after squishing them even with extreme settings on an 1176. That's why some like CLA use a brickwall limiter such as L1 before sending them to the 1176. Or maybe we're talking about different things? |
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Post by copperx on Jan 27, 2023 15:39:01 GMT -6
With all due respect to Dave (I love his plugins and think he's a DSP genius), I don't trust Dave's ears too much. He considers his DMG models practically indistinguishable from the hardware, and even though I think they are among the best emulations, better than UAD (you can even see the phase response of his compressors is identical to hardware), I wouldn't dare to say that they sound the same. |
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Post by wiz on Jan 27, 2023 15:43:37 GMT -6
I listened in my studio.... sounds darker, thicker and more chocolatey than your normal setup....how well it takes high end EQ might determine success in the mix, depending on the song, compared to your normal sound... but its very cool...and...I hear absolutely no distortion.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 27, 2023 16:39:45 GMT -6
We need a dropbox or wetransfer list: download the wav file! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 16:43:30 GMT -6
What? Like the CLA 76 and Black Rooster FET, the Trackcomp 76 cannot peak limit vocals, which defeats the 1176’s point. I understand, Dan, but in my experience an 1176 doesn't peak limit vocals either. Yes, it reduces the average peak volume, but vocals can still come out "pointy" after squishing them even with extreme settings on an 1176. That's why some like CLA use a brickwall limiter such as L1 before sending them to the 1176. Or maybe we're talking about different things? Diff things. the bad 1176 emulations leave ice picks behind totally unaffected by the comp because they can’t detect the audio crosses threshold. Waves L1 is just as bad and lookahead can make it even worse but it sometimes does take off the peak with the lookahead unlike the Waves CLA 76. I can recommend the overloud 76, pulsar 1178, Goodhertz faraday limiter, Klanghelm dc8c3 set right on max oversampling. Also the PSP Fetpressor if you play with the high pass filter and like dry grainy sand in your beach food. That’s the attack curve of the compressor meaning the slower attacks don’t do much to the initial hit vs a fast attack logarithmic curve vca but they still do something. Certain distressor ratios, api 2500, Molot Sigma mode, Presswerk with positive delay, and Goodhertz Faraday Limiter take this to the extreme and SLAM hard set right. |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 27, 2023 17:03:05 GMT -6
It's forward, modern and it sounds cool mainly but there's a high end distortion / poke that's annoying me. I hear it a little a couple spots. The kind of thing that might make me back down preamp gain or compression to see if it changed, if tracking. Exercise the wall panel and patch bay connections just in case. Not obvious to most people, but I'd be thinking "mix and master might make that really stick out". But it could also be vocal rasp, a certain frequency node in the room, etc. I couldn't pin it on any one thing. Johnkenn I'd bet if you don't hear it that it's just a thing your voice did that moment that you know and accept. I only heard it in a spot or two, not a constant. Sounds good. Hard to comment on amount of compression without a broader context or hearing you in the air myself, sure sounds like it works though. The other processing you mention sounds useful. |
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