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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2023 13:50:30 GMT -6
Yup. This is generally true. But analog and punchy sounding? That is about as far away from my mind as it can get when someone says ADAT. Don't miss em, will not care if I never see one again.  They were an OK tool at the time. IMO, DA88's were better overall, but I don't care if I never see one of those again either. LOL Vintage? No....just old. I would not, could not, did not, ever, use ADATs for a project... stuck to analog tape 24 track and a tascam midiizer to sync a separate 8 or 16 track machine as needed plus a Power mac running a 4 channel pro tools and midi system.... but I *DID* use the DA88s! Those were 100x better as you state. I engineered a record that received a Grammy for an artist on Quincy's WB label using my D&R desks, MCI JH24, a modded Trident desk, and an API desk with MCI's at O'Henry's - and a few overdubs at Bill Schnee's. It sounded great, and won a Grammy. Great sounding record. The next record from that artist that came hot off that win and was done on ADAT's with an 02R for the majority of smaller overdubs, then the same larger studio's and their consoles with ADAT's for the big ensemble stuff. The sonic difference is astounding. Astounding in the bad sense. As mentioned, no love for ADAT;s here. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2023 14:02:43 GMT -6
These days I don't think young engineers even have the concept of "sync" in their vocabulary. Back then, those were everyday battles that had to be fought and won to make any progress. Add video and analog into the equation and BAM! Huge issues. There were times when I had to sync 3/4" video and MCI JH24's together via Lynx modules, then PT via their sync module, then DA-88's to the whole mess as well. Sometimes ADATs as well. Thanks to this thread, I will probably have sync nightmares tonight..... PS - do you think anyone here but you and I know what black burst is and how / when / and how not to use it Eric? There might be a couple of others🤔🤔 Oh those sync days, don’t miss them at all but if you want to talk headcase/ glutton for punishment/ idiot there is a guy 4 blocks from me who runs a bunch of synced teac 4 tracks, ain’t never been in his room I’m afraid to walk in figure the nightmares will never end. Now Bill, remember how much those Lynx Synchronizers cost in the old days ? Now they go for nothing. First - how do you even sync team 4 tracks? IME, that's impossible without some kind of crazy internal non-authorized hacks. And even if you could, I guess the question is WHY?!?!?!?!? Second, yes I remember. I made some gear pimp have a great month when I purchased a pair of Timeline Lynx's, the requisite custom cables for the Lynx/MCI and a 3/4" syncable video deck. IIRC, it think it was somewhere around $15k. Oh...and I bought a blackburst as well, and actually learned how to use it. And how to not use it. . Haha! Stripe black burst referenced code on the JH24 when it was FREEWHEELING and unresolved, then lock, sync and resolve to the TL modules. . The real fun started when tapes came in where the code was not striped properly, or one or the other of the decks were not resolving properly, or they were sync'd and tracking, but not resolved and were slipping over time. I know entire projects where the engineers never ran the entire program material from start to finish to see if there was any "slippage". They were always FF or REW and hitting play, and the machines would line up, and VERY gradually start to drift because of TC errors in striping, resolving, etc.. Geez....now I'm giving myself a nightmare. I luckily was working in the Film world at that point in my life, and those guys knew their stuff - I learned a lot from them. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 30, 2023 14:23:55 GMT -6
There might be a couple of others🤔🤔 Oh those sync days, don’t miss them at all but if you want to talk headcase/ glutton for punishment/ idiot there is a guy 4 blocks from me who runs a bunch of synced teac 4 tracks, ain’t never been in his room I’m afraid to walk in figure the nightmares will never end. Now Bill, remember how much those Lynx Synchronizers cost in the old days ? Now they go for nothing. First - how do you even sync team 4 tracks? IME, that's impossible without some kind of crazy internal non-authorized hacks. And even if you could, I guess the question is WHY?!?!?!?!? Second, yes I remember. I made some gear pimp have a great month when I purchased a pair of Timeline Lynx's, the requisite custom cables for the Lynx/MCI and a 3/4" syncable video deck. IIRC, it think it was somewhere around $15k. Oh...and I bought a blackburst as well, and actually learned how to use it. And how to not use it. . Haha! Stripe black burst referenced code on the JH24 when it was FREEWHEELING and unresolved, then lock, sync and resolve to the TL modules. . The real fun started when tapes came in where the code was not striped properly, or one or the other of the decks were not resolving properly, or they were sync'd and tracking, but not resolved and were slipping over time. I know entire projects where the engineers never ran the entire program material from start to finish to see if there was any "slippage". They were always FF or REW and hitting play, and the machines would line up, and VERY gradually start to drift because of TC errors in striping, resolving, etc.. Geez....now I'm giving myself a nightmare. I luckily was working in the Film world at that point in my life, and those guys knew their stuff - I learned a lot from them. I don’t know how he is doing it ! Part of me wants to know, but a bigger part says Nooooooo! If these kids only knew how bad it was even when things worked! I’ll never forget a mix session where some idiot didn’t use a guard track and put the lead vocal next to the time code that was fun ! |
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Post by drumsound on Jan 30, 2023 14:26:42 GMT -6
There might be a couple of others🤔🤔 Oh those sync days, don’t miss them at all but if you want to talk headcase/ glutton for punishment/ idiot there is a guy 4 blocks from me who runs a bunch of synced teac 4 tracks, ain’t never been in his room I’m afraid to walk in figure the nightmares will never end. Now Bill, remember how much those Lynx Synchronizers cost in the old days ? Now they go for nothing. First - how do you even sync team 4 tracks? IME, that's impossible without some kind of crazy internal non-authorized hacks. And even if you could, I guess the question is WHY?!?!?!?!? Second, yes I remember. I made some gear pimp have a great month when I purchased a pair of Timeline Lynx's, the requisite custom cables for the Lynx/MCI and a 3/4" syncable video deck. IIRC, it think it was somewhere around $15k. Oh...and I bought a blackburst as well, and actually learned how to use it. And how to not use it. . Haha! Stripe black burst referenced code on the JH24 when it was FREEWHEELING and unresolved, then lock, sync and resolve to the TL modules. . The real fun started when tapes came in where the code was not striped properly, or one or the other of the decks were not resolving properly, or they were sync'd and tracking, but not resolved and were slipping over time. I know entire projects where the engineers never ran the entire program material from start to finish to see if there was any "slippage". They were always FF or REW and hitting play, and the machines would line up, and VERY gradually start to drift because of TC errors in striping, resolving, etc.. Geez....now I'm giving myself a nightmare. I luckily was working in the Film world at that point in my life, and those guys knew their stuff - I learned a lot from them. Nothing like working with people who have knowledge you don't, but are good about passing it along. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2023 14:39:21 GMT -6
First - how do you even sync team 4 tracks? IME, that's impossible without some kind of crazy internal non-authorized hacks. And even if you could, I guess the question is WHY?!?!?!?!? Second, yes I remember. I made some gear pimp have a great month when I purchased a pair of Timeline Lynx's, the requisite custom cables for the Lynx/MCI and a 3/4" syncable video deck. IIRC, it think it was somewhere around $15k. Oh...and I bought a blackburst as well, and actually learned how to use it. And how to not use it. . Haha! Stripe black burst referenced code on the JH24 when it was FREEWHEELING and unresolved, then lock, sync and resolve to the TL modules. . The real fun started when tapes came in where the code was not striped properly, or one or the other of the decks were not resolving properly, or they were sync'd and tracking, but not resolved and were slipping over time. I know entire projects where the engineers never ran the entire program material from start to finish to see if there was any "slippage". They were always FF or REW and hitting play, and the machines would line up, and VERY gradually start to drift because of TC errors in striping, resolving, etc.. Geez....now I'm giving myself a nightmare. I luckily was working in the Film world at that point in my life, and those guys knew their stuff - I learned a lot from them. I don’t know how he is doing it ! Part of me wants to know, but a bigger part says Nooooooo! If these kids only knew how bad it was even when things worked! I’ll never forget a mix session where some idiot didn’t use a guard track and put the lead vocal next to the time code that was fun ! . Listen to the "Noooooo!". Haha!! |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 30, 2023 14:40:18 GMT -6
These days I don't think young engineers even have the concept of "sync" in their vocabulary. Back then, those were everyday battles that had to be fought and won to make any progress. Add video and analog into the equation and BAM! Huge issues. There were times when I had to sync 3/4" video and MCI JH24's together via Lynx modules, then PT via their sync module, then DA-88's to the whole mess as well. Sometimes ADATs as well. Thanks to this thread, I will probably have sync nightmares tonight..... PS - do you think anyone here but you and I know what black burst is and how / when / and how not to use it Eric? I know about black burst in theory, as well at Lynx and the like. Living/being such a low space on the totem pole of the entertainment 'biz' I never really had to deal with those things. I have enough friends that I know some stories... I was hired to work at a 2 ADAT/Mackie room in '96 that somewhat mirrored Eric's post. 166, 2 3630s, MIDIverb III, AT 4033 as out flagship condenser. The boss got me going and I spent a lot of time but with clients and without, learning how to do the gig. I'd pick tapes off the shelf and mix random things the boss tracked. I'd set up mics, hit record and run out to the live room and play, then come back and listen. I read magazines and found rec.audio.pro and THAT was where I really learned things. There were CATS there. I think it where I first encountered Bob Olhsson. We made improvements, bought better things, tried to constantly make the place better. A TAC Magnum from Johnny K was the real "now we're getting somewhere" moment. I had been suspecting the Mackie wasn't as happening (thought it was fun when we added the expander and I have 48 channels sitting in front of me). We'd added a lot of compressors, then some pres, but this console was a HUGE leap. I then used my own money and bought a 2" machine and that was another huge leap. I really bummed me out when I had to go back to the ADATs for budget reasons. Sure I can listen to things from the ADAT days and like them, more often it's because of the music, not the sonics. Also (which is still often true) it's the simpler things that worked best. 4-5 musicians playing together, overdub vocals and some ear candy and make a mix, that are often the best stuff. Man, you are speaking my language, Tony. I learned so much on rec.audio.pro in the late 90s. I just absorbed every thread like a sponge. Scott Dorsey, Mike Rivers, Bob Olhsson, etc., etc., etc. Back when the internet had so much hope and promise.
The thing I think was good about the ADAT era was one of the things good in the tape era: We had a limited number of tracks, so everything had to count. Everything had to be good enough to justify staying in the arrangement. There was no endless layering of parts. There was no hiding. If you were going to make a good-sounding record, it had to sound killer before hitting the ADATs.
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2023 14:41:04 GMT -6
First - how do you even sync team 4 tracks? IME, that's impossible without some kind of crazy internal non-authorized hacks. And even if you could, I guess the question is WHY?!?!?!?!? Second, yes I remember. I made some gear pimp have a great month when I purchased a pair of Timeline Lynx's, the requisite custom cables for the Lynx/MCI and a 3/4" syncable video deck. IIRC, it think it was somewhere around $15k. Oh...and I bought a blackburst as well, and actually learned how to use it. And how to not use it. . Haha! Stripe black burst referenced code on the JH24 when it was FREEWHEELING and unresolved, then lock, sync and resolve to the TL modules. . The real fun started when tapes came in where the code was not striped properly, or one or the other of the decks were not resolving properly, or they were sync'd and tracking, but not resolved and were slipping over time. I know entire projects where the engineers never ran the entire program material from start to finish to see if there was any "slippage". They were always FF or REW and hitting play, and the machines would line up, and VERY gradually start to drift because of TC errors in striping, resolving, etc.. Geez....now I'm giving myself a nightmare. I luckily was working in the Film world at that point in my life, and those guys knew their stuff - I learned a lot from them. Nothing like working with people who have knowledge you don't, but are good about passing it along. Yes. There were solutions for *almost* every problem, but trying to wrap your mind around the solutions could be difficult at best. Those guys had to deal with that **** everyday and they were very helpful at figuring out sync issues. Especially with stuff coming over from Europe and the UK. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 30, 2023 14:47:40 GMT -6
First - how do you even sync team 4 tracks? IME, that's impossible without some kind of crazy internal non-authorized hacks. And even if you could, I guess the question is WHY?!?!?!?!? Second, yes I remember. I made some gear pimp have a great month when I purchased a pair of Timeline Lynx's, the requisite custom cables for the Lynx/MCI and a 3/4" syncable video deck. IIRC, it think it was somewhere around $15k. Oh...and I bought a blackburst as well, and actually learned how to use it. And how to not use it. . Haha! Stripe black burst referenced code on the JH24 when it was FREEWHEELING and unresolved, then lock, sync and resolve to the TL modules. . The real fun started when tapes came in where the code was not striped properly, or one or the other of the decks were not resolving properly, or they were sync'd and tracking, but not resolved and were slipping over time. I know entire projects where the engineers never ran the entire program material from start to finish to see if there was any "slippage". They were always FF or REW and hitting play, and the machines would line up, and VERY gradually start to drift because of TC errors in striping, resolving, etc.. Geez....now I'm giving myself a nightmare. I luckily was working in the Film world at that point in my life, and those guys knew their stuff - I learned a lot from them. Nothing like working with people who have knowledge you don't, but are good about passing it along. The problem with the ADAT era was so often the guy with knowledge didn’t realize he had luck not knowledge. It was also the beginning of the guy who had all the cool gear being an “expert “ even if it didn’t work. It was always fun to see these guys Evangelize “b” level brands like CAD, not because they really loved them but because they owned some other company with a tax number and we’re a Dealer. Of course it was even funnier when they found out that their favorite manufacturer cut us a better deal because even if we didn’t push or stock it we moved more. I remember one guy we will call him Jim because that was his name getting pissed when he found out our wholesale division price was less than him buying direct. Oh nothing like a guy nobody likes having a meltdown on the his Motorola flip phone. These were also the type of guy to have a couple of Neve modules plugged in with HOSA molded cable. |
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Post by bossanova on Jan 30, 2023 15:02:02 GMT -6
These are my personal observations, compiled from a couple of posts I made at the purple place:
Part 1
One thing I can add is that my first band tracked an album to a 44.1/16 DAT borrowed from the A/V department when I was in high school. Live, full band takes recorded in a basement, guitar amps and drums miced, keyboards direct, live vocals, probably 58s on everything, probably no artificial reverb on the entire thing. Every song on there is a complete live take, even if it took us 60 of them to get it right, because as far as I know we had no capability to edit.
That record is no one's idea of an audiophile marvel, or even a good album, but when I listen to James Taylor's Hourglass I hear way more in common with that album than I do with modern digital productions today. It's warm in a way that feels so effortless when it was just us plugging into a board and going straight to DAT.
I don't know if it's the sound of live instruments all playing together in one room (I know that's Bob Ohlsson's theory), or something in the converters back then that just isn't there now, or maybe it's just the nostalgia, but recording one-man-band style in 2022, with what should be much better equipment, doesn't sound like that anymore.
Part 2
I did some critical listening to try and figure out how and why my band’s old album sounds warmer to my ears, beyond the catch-all explanation of “vintage digital”. Here’s what I noticed:
less processing/no digital processing - there’s no compression on anything and only light analog EQ, if any, from the board.
minimally mic’d drums - the drums were captured with what sounds like 1-2 mics [update: the scope says they're in very narrow, almost subliminal stereo, so there were at least 2], which isn’t the most detailed sound, but it doesn’t have the harshness that I associate with close mic’d drums and cymbals in digital. To give credit, our drummer was the best musician in the band at the time, and he sounds great without the added compression.
Dynamic Mics - everything rolls off nicely at the top because that's the frequency curve of the microphones.
The Mixer - I have no memory of what we were tracking through but it sounds like it added some color on the way in and you can occasionally hear some breakup from the vocals clipping the mic preamp.
Noise Floor - between the mixer, the bleed, and whatever noise came from micing the cheap amps and the direct keyboard outs, it is not a pristine recording, and it sounds more like my recollection of my old Portastudio. At the same time, all those little imperfections give it more of an analog sound than when I associate with "sterile" digital. [Added: I put a couple of the quietest sections through SPAN and got hiss showing up at -87.)
Headroom - this is definitely the place where we benefited from the digital, because with no compressors to catch the peaks going to tape I'm fairly certain we would have distorted the hell out of the record otherwise. The dynamic range was there and we *used it*, albeit not always intentionally.
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All this is a way of saying that I can see an explanation where the old converters and digital medium were the least impactful part of that chain, and much more came from the recording environment (a large, dead basement), the mics, the mic positioning, the bottlenecks/color in the analog tracking path, and the complete absence of digital processing and over processing.
[Added: I cited Hourglass because it was a 44.1/16 multitrack recorded through a Yamaha digital console with direct keyboards and it was tracked live in a residential space.]
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 15:23:16 GMT -6
I know about black burst in theory, as well at Lynx and the like. Living/being such a low space on the totem pole of the entertainment 'biz' I never really had to deal with those things. I have enough friends that I know some stories... I was hired to work at a 2 ADAT/Mackie room in '96 that somewhat mirrored Eric's post. 166, 2 3630s, MIDIverb III, AT 4033 as out flagship condenser. The boss got me going and I spent a lot of time but with clients and without, learning how to do the gig. I'd pick tapes off the shelf and mix random things the boss tracked. I'd set up mics, hit record and run out to the live room and play, then come back and listen. I read magazines and found rec.audio.pro and THAT was where I really learned things. There were CATS there. I think it where I first encountered Bob Olhsson. We made improvements, bought better things, tried to constantly make the place better. A TAC Magnum from Johnny K was the real "now we're getting somewhere" moment. I had been suspecting the Mackie wasn't as happening (thought it was fun when we added the expander and I have 48 channels sitting in front of me). We'd added a lot of compressors, then some pres, but this console was a HUGE leap. I then used my own money and bought a 2" machine and that was another huge leap. I really bummed me out when I had to go back to the ADATs for budget reasons. Sure I can listen to things from the ADAT days and like them, more often it's because of the music, not the sonics. Also (which is still often true) it's the simpler things that worked best. 4-5 musicians playing together, overdub vocals and some ear candy and make a mix, that are often the best stuff. Man, you are speaking my language, Tony. I learned so much on rec.audio.pro in the late 90s. I just absorbed every thread like a sponge. Scott Dorsey, Mike Rivers, Bob Olhsson, etc., etc., etc. Back when the internet had so much hope and promise.
The thing I think was good about the ADAT era was one of the things good in the tape era: We had a limited number of tracks, so everything had to count. Everything had to be good enough to justify staying in the arrangement. There was no endless layering of parts. There was no hiding. If you were going to make a good-sounding record, it had to sound killer before hitting the ADATs.
Now you can go on gearslutz and other forums and be told to buy a million pieces of bad equipment and ads to pay for some name mixer to give you bad advice on how to make tracks that have already been cleaned up for him by an assistant sound distorted in a way that will get you fired! People online will defend Focusrite, Behringer/Music Group, low headroom clone mics, low headroom powered monitors, and tons of stuff that will break and will end up in a landfill because the manufacturer refuses to fix it or it's not worth the bench fee, labor, and parts cost to even attempt to fix. |
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Post by drumsound on Jan 30, 2023 15:24:15 GMT -6
I know about black burst in theory, as well at Lynx and the like. Living/being such a low space on the totem pole of the entertainment 'biz' I never really had to deal with those things. I have enough friends that I know some stories... I was hired to work at a 2 ADAT/Mackie room in '96 that somewhat mirrored Eric's post. 166, 2 3630s, MIDIverb III, AT 4033 as out flagship condenser. The boss got me going and I spent a lot of time but with clients and without, learning how to do the gig. I'd pick tapes off the shelf and mix random things the boss tracked. I'd set up mics, hit record and run out to the live room and play, then come back and listen. I read magazines and found rec.audio.pro and THAT was where I really learned things. There were CATS there. I think it where I first encountered Bob Olhsson. We made improvements, bought better things, tried to constantly make the place better. A TAC Magnum from Johnny K was the real "now we're getting somewhere" moment. I had been suspecting the Mackie wasn't as happening (thought it was fun when we added the expander and I have 48 channels sitting in front of me). We'd added a lot of compressors, then some pres, but this console was a HUGE leap. I then used my own money and bought a 2" machine and that was another huge leap. I really bummed me out when I had to go back to the ADATs for budget reasons. Sure I can listen to things from the ADAT days and like them, more often it's because of the music, not the sonics. Also (which is still often true) it's the simpler things that worked best. 4-5 musicians playing together, overdub vocals and some ear candy and make a mix, that are often the best stuff. Man, you are speaking my language, Tony. I learned so much on rec.audio.pro in the late 90s. I just absorbed every thread like a sponge. Scott Dorsey, Mike Rivers, Bob Olhsson, etc., etc., etc. Back when the internet had so much hope and promise.
The thing I think was good about the ADAT era was one of the things good in the tape era: We had a limited number of tracks, so everything had to count. Everything had to be good enough to justify staying in the arrangement. There was no endless layering of parts. There was no hiding. If you were going to make a good-sounding record, it had to sound killer before hitting the ADATs.
I owe a good portion of my understanding of how this gig works to rec.audio.pro and the names mentioned. The tape real estate thing I still consider a blessing. As a matter of fact I did a guest column for Tape Op titled Think Like Tape which you can check out HERE. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 15:26:00 GMT -6
I would not, could not, did not, ever, use ADATs for a project... stuck to analog tape 24 track and a tascam midiizer to sync a separate 8 or 16 track machine as needed plus a Power mac running a 4 channel pro tools and midi system.... but I *DID* use the DA88s! Those were 100x better as you state. I engineered a record that received a Grammy for an artist on Quincy's WB label using my D&R desks, MCI JH24, a modded Trident desk, and an API desk with MCI's at O'Henry's - and a few overdubs at Bill Schnee's. It sounded great, and won a Grammy. Great sounding record. The next record from that artist that came hot off that win and was done on ADAT's with an 02R for the majority of smaller overdubs, then the same larger studio's and their consoles with ADAT's for the big ensemble stuff. The sonic difference is astounding. Astounding in the bad sense. As mentioned, no love for ADAT;s here. The only thing those O2R and O1V are good for is industrial drums and digital crunch! They suck for everything else. The 96 khz ones aren't even good for that and just flat out suck. They didn't create new genres like the Alesis fx and nasty Boss pedals, they just sucked. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 30, 2023 15:31:36 GMT -6
When I used ADAT around 2006, it was done in a real studio in a good sounding pro build room properly treated. All analogue gear except for the capture. That's why it sounded analogue-ish. I doubt it was the ADAT  |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2023 15:43:55 GMT -6
When I used ADAT around 2006, it was done in a real studio in a good sounding pro build room properly treated. All analogue gear except for the capture. That's why it sounded analogue-ish. I doubt it was the ADAT There were still studio's using ADAT's in '06? Wow. In LA they were pretty much extinct by that time. |
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Post by bossanova on Jan 30, 2023 15:57:11 GMT -6
I would not, could not, did not, ever, use ADATs for a project... stuck to analog tape 24 track and a tascam midiizer to sync a separate 8 or 16 track machine as needed plus a Power mac running a 4 channel pro tools and midi system.... but I *DID* use the DA88s! Those were 100x better as you state. I engineered a record that received a Grammy for an artist on Quincy's WB label using my D&R desks, MCI JH24, a modded Trident desk, and an API desk with MCI's at O'Henry's - and a few overdubs at Bill Schnee's. It sounded great, and won a Grammy. Great sounding record. The next record from that artist that came hot off that win and was done on ADAT's with an 02R for the majority of smaller overdubs, then the same larger studio's and their consoles with ADAT's for the big ensemble stuff. The sonic difference is astounding. Astounding in the bad sense. As mentioned, no love for ADAT;s here. What was the first record, if you can share? |
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Post by Chad on Jan 30, 2023 16:35:00 GMT -6
These days I don't think young engineers even have the concept of "sync" in their vocabulary. Back then, those were everyday battles that had to be fought and won to make any progress. Add video and analog into the equation and BAM! Huge issues. There were times when I had to sync 3/4" video and MCI JH24's together via Lynx modules, then PT via their sync module, then DA-88's to the whole mess as well. Sometimes ADATs as well. Thanks to this thread, I will probably have sync nightmares tonight..... PS - do you think anyone here but you and I know what black burst is and how / when / and how not to use it Eric? There might be a couple of others🤔🤔 Oh those sync days, don’t miss them at all but if you want to talk headcase/ glutton for punishment/ idiot there is a guy 4 blocks from me who runs a bunch of synced teac 4 tracks, ain’t never been in his room I’m afraid to walk in figure the nightmares will never end. Now Bill, remember how much those Lynx Synchronizers cost in the old days ? Now they go for nothing. What about SMPTE TC, 1k test tone, & striping a tape?? ;-) Man, I do NOT miss those days either. I digress... |
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Post by donr on Jan 30, 2023 18:15:29 GMT -6
I would not, could not, did not, ever, use ADATs for a project... stuck to analog tape 24 track and a tascam midiizer to sync a separate 8 or 16 track machine as needed plus a Power mac running a 4 channel pro tools and midi system.... but I *DID* use the DA88s! Those were 100x better as you state. I engineered a record that received a Grammy for an artist on Quincy's WB label using my D&R desks, MCI JH24, a modded Trident desk, and an API desk with MCI's at O'Henry's - and a few overdubs at Bill Schnee's. It sounded great, and won a Grammy. Great sounding record. The next record from that artist that came hot off that win and was done on ADAT's with an 02R for the majority of smaller overdubs, then the same larger studio's and their consoles with ADAT's for the big ensemble stuff. The sonic difference is astounding. Astounding in the bad sense. As mentioned, no love for ADAT;s here. Great story, Bill. My question is, who engineered the ADAT takes and where? I'm guessing it wasn't you. Didn't Chuck Ainlay or someone of his stature do some recording with an O2R with some famous artist? Probably sounded ok.. : ) |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 30, 2023 18:19:18 GMT -6
There were still studio's using ADAT's in '06? Wow. In LA they were pretty much extinct by that time. Yep, it was an off the beaten path studio, long in the tooth gear. It served my purpose at the time. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 30, 2023 18:34:07 GMT -6
Well, here's a track from that album. I just posted to Soundcloud. I was told I was dying. My voice was damaged, but I went to a cheap studio and sang all the songs I could think of. Live, one take, guitar and vocal, nothing else. I felt I wanted to leave friends with something more than memories and a few photos.
I began healing, so I added tracks later, one by one as I could afford to. I could have replaced the acoustic guitar and vocal, but I felt it was more honest to leave them the way they were.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/you-dont-know-me%3Fsi%3De7abf99afb3f42dd8525bd6e4eebd4c1%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Jan 30, 2023 19:07:24 GMT -6
I engineered a record that received a Grammy for an artist on Quincy's WB label using my D&R desks, MCI JH24, a modded Trident desk, and an API desk with MCI's at O'Henry's - and a few overdubs at Bill Schnee's. It sounded great, and won a Grammy. Great sounding record. The next record from that artist that came hot off that win and was done on ADAT's with an 02R for the majority of smaller overdubs, then the same larger studio's and their consoles with ADAT's for the big ensemble stuff. The sonic difference is astounding. Astounding in the bad sense. As mentioned, no love for ADAT;s here. Great story, Bill. My question is, who engineered the ADAT takes and where? I'm guessing it wasn't you. Didn't Chuck Ainlay or someone of his stature do some recording with an O2R with some famous artist? Probably sounded ok.. : ) James Taylor with Phil Ramone, it sold quite a few O2R’s. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2023 19:13:01 GMT -6
Well, here's a track from that album. I just posted to Soundcloud. I was told I was dying. My voice was damaged, but I went to a cheap studio and sang all the songs I could think of. Live, one take, guitar and vocal, nothing else. I felt I wanted to leave friends with something more than memories and a few photos. I began healing, so I added tracks later, one by one as I could afford to. I could have replaced the acoustic guitar and vocal, but I felt it was more honest to leave them the way they were. https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/you-dont-know-me%3Fsi%3De7abf99afb3f42dd8525bd6e4eebd4c1%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharingGlad you made it thru Martin!!! Live to sing another day..... |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2023 19:15:43 GMT -6
I engineered a record that received a Grammy for an artist on Quincy's WB label using my D&R desks, MCI JH24, a modded Trident desk, and an API desk with MCI's at O'Henry's - and a few overdubs at Bill Schnee's. It sounded great, and won a Grammy. Great sounding record. The next record from that artist that came hot off that win and was done on ADAT's with an 02R for the majority of smaller overdubs, then the same larger studio's and their consoles with ADAT's for the big ensemble stuff. The sonic difference is astounding. Astounding in the bad sense. As mentioned, no love for ADAT;s here. Great story, Bill. My question is, who engineered the ADAT takes and where? I'm guessing it wasn't you. Didn't Chuck Ainlay or someone of his stature do some recording with an O2R with some famous artist? Probably sounded ok.. : ) Thanks Don! Yeah, I had minimal input on the 2nd album. If I had, it wouldn't have been ADAT's. LOL. I don't want to out the producer and put him on the spot, but that was the era where "doing your own engineering at home" was becoming hugely popular. The producer did a lot of the engineering, and the mix crew mixed it. A few sessions were done in the usual places.... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 30, 2023 19:23:47 GMT -6
drill said: "Glad you made it thru Martin!!! Live to sing another day".....
Thanks drbill! That seems like a lifetime time ago. I was ill from 1996 to 2008. Every day was a gift and bonus day from then on.
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They were an OK tool at the time. IMO, DA88's were better overall, but I don't care if I never see one of those again either. LOL
