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Post by gevermil on Jan 25, 2023 19:37:02 GMT -6
I know this has been covered before in other threads . Going through some old demos , My 20 year old adat recordings sound better than my pro tools-apogee daw set up . BY FAR . depressing . I'm not talking about performance , the basic sounds of individual tracks explode out of the speakers . I have much better mics and preamps ect now but jeez , stuff seemed to sound better quicker back then .
I get better clarity now but man there is no punch . all in the box mind you . Back then it was mackie and 421s and AT 4033s .
Ugh
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Post by chessparov on Jan 25, 2023 20:02:58 GMT -6
Any clips to share? Chris
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Post by EmRR on Jan 26, 2023 10:32:11 GMT -6
I recognize this feeling! There's a certain 'forward' thing that comes with it, and it all sounds better than it did then through today's converters. There's definitely stuff from back then I'd be challenged to top.....hey, it could be the source talent!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 26, 2023 12:01:00 GMT -6
I recognize this feeling! There's a certain 'forward' thing that comes with it, and it all sounds better than it did then through today's converters. There's definitely stuff from back then I'd be challenged to top.....hey, it could be the source talent! Yeah, I think a lot of it is we once again had to work harder at the basics. Even if we had a DAW, it didn’t have the power to use as much processing to overcome bad tracking decisions, so we had to still put in the work.
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Post by Chad on Jan 26, 2023 12:10:20 GMT -6
Case in point: Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill comes to mind. Recorded entirely on the original 1991 black face ADATs, if I'm remembering correctly based on what I read in Electronic Musician and MIX back in the 90's. ============== I found this unused song mix on a 16bit/48khz DAT I had in storage recently and hadn't heard it since I mixed it in 1997: www.dropbox.com/s/xh7kck5z539v9vc/ChadCox_AngelsCry_REMIX.mp3?dl=0Ignore the song itself, per se – it was a remix where I distorted the temporary lead vocal by overdriving an ART TUBE MP on purpose. Ugly, but oh well. But... I do notice some sonics about this recording that are full & fat and not squeezed or grainy sounding. Process:» Drums: Recorded via Shure mics into a MACKIE 24-8 » Guitars/Vocals/Bass/Piano: Recorded into my Yamaha Pro Mix 01 mixer's preamps; Bass = Direct; Vocal = Vintage U87; Piano = AT4050; Guitars = AT4050 (acoustic) & SM57 mic'd Fender Tweed Amp » Mix: 16 tracks (2 ADATS) into the Yamaha Pro Mix 01, internal FX + 1 outboard Lexicon MPX-1 Chad
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 26, 2023 12:22:17 GMT -6
Case in point: Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill comes to mind. Recorded entirely on the original 1991 black face ADATs, if I'm remembering correctly based on what I read in Electronic Musician and MIX back in the 90's. ============== I found this unused song mix on a 16bit/48khz DAT I had in storage recently and hadn't heard it since I mixed it in 1997: www.dropbox.com/s/xh7kck5z539v9vc/ChadCox_AngelsCry_REMIX.mp3?dl=0Ignore the song itself, per se – it was a remix where I distorted the temporary lead vocal by overdriving an ART TUBE MP on purpose. Ugly, but oh well. But... I do notice some sonics about this recording that are full & fat and not squeezed or grainy sounding. Process:» Drums: Recorded via Shure mics into a MACKIE 24-8 » Guitars/Vocals/Bass/Piano: Recorded into my Yamaha Pro Mix 01 mixer's preamps; Bass = Direct; Vocal = Vintage U87; Piano = AT4050; Guitars = AT4050 (acoustic) & SM57 mic'd Fender Tweed Amp » Mix: 16 tracks (2 ADATS) into the Yamaha Pro Mix 01, internal FX + 1 outboard Lexicon MPX-1 Chad Yeah I remember one of the guys at Alesis complaining that even after it went multi platinum she never returned a loaned ADAT.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 26, 2023 15:42:08 GMT -6
Maybe she felt ashamed, of performing in Blackface. Chris
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Post by Chad on Jan 26, 2023 15:49:45 GMT -6
Maybe she felt ashamed, of performing in Blackface. Chris
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Post by seawell on Jan 26, 2023 15:59:10 GMT -6
Case in point: Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill comes to mind. Recorded entirely on the original 1991 black face ADATs, if I'm remembering correctly based on what I read in Electronic Musician and MIX back in the 90's. ============== I found this unused song mix on a 16bit/48khz DAT I had in storage recently and hadn't heard it since I mixed it in 1997: www.dropbox.com/s/xh7kck5z539v9vc/ChadCox_AngelsCry_REMIX.mp3?dl=0Ignore the song itself, per se – it was a remix where I distorted the temporary lead vocal by overdriving an ART TUBE MP on purpose. Ugly, but oh well. But... I do notice some sonics about this recording that are full & fat and not squeezed or grainy sounding. Process:» Drums: Recorded via Shure mics into a MACKIE 24-8 » Guitars/Vocals/Bass/Piano: Recorded into my Yamaha Pro Mix 01 mixer's preamps; Bass = Direct; Vocal = Vintage U87; Piano = AT4050; Guitars = AT4050 (acoustic) & SM57 mic'd Fender Tweed Amp » Mix: 16 tracks (2 ADATS) into the Yamaha Pro Mix 01, internal FX + 1 outboard Lexicon MPX-1 Chad You’re remembering correctly, I bought my first ADAT after reading that article! Unfortunately my band didn’t quite sell as many copies as “Jagged Little Pill” did 🤣. The funniest thing I remember about the article is how “home studio,” sort of low budget it seemed….but then the more you read, you realized Glenn Ballard produced it, Flea & Dave Navarro played on “You Oughta Know,” and she sang through a Vintage AKG C12. All I could afford out of that bunch was the ADAT 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by Chad on Jan 26, 2023 16:18:05 GMT -6
Case in point: Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill comes to mind. Recorded entirely on the original 1991 black face ADATs, if I'm remembering correctly based on what I read in Electronic Musician and MIX back in the 90's. ============== I found this unused song mix on a 16bit/48khz DAT I had in storage recently and hadn't heard it since I mixed it in 1997: www.dropbox.com/s/xh7kck5z539v9vc/ChadCox_AngelsCry_REMIX.mp3?dl=0Ignore the song itself, per se – it was a remix where I distorted the temporary lead vocal by overdriving an ART TUBE MP on purpose. Ugly, but oh well. But... I do notice some sonics about this recording that are full & fat and not squeezed or grainy sounding. Process:» Drums: Recorded via Shure mics into a MACKIE 24-8 » Guitars/Vocals/Bass/Piano: Recorded into my Yamaha Pro Mix 01 mixer's preamps; Bass = Direct; Vocal = Vintage U87; Piano = AT4050; Guitars = AT4050 (acoustic) & SM57 mic'd Fender Tweed Amp » Mix: 16 tracks (2 ADATS) into the Yamaha Pro Mix 01, internal FX + 1 outboard Lexicon MPX-1 Chad You’re remembering correctly, I bought my first ADAT after reading that article! Unfortunately my band didn’t quite sell as many copies as “Jagged Little Pill” did 🤣. The funniest thing I remember about the article is how “home studio,” sort of low budget it seemed….but then the more you read, you realized Glenn Ballard produced it, Flea & Dave Navarro played on “You Oughta Know,” and she sang through a Vintage AKG C12. All I could afford out of that bunch was the ADAT 🤷🏻♂️ Ha! So true! But even the ADAT seemed so expensive at the time for one deck at $2,500-ish + tax from Sweetwater.
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Post by drbill on Jan 26, 2023 16:30:43 GMT -6
I have no nostalgia for ADAT's. OR DA88's for that matter.....
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 26, 2023 16:33:42 GMT -6
Case in point: Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill comes to mind. Recorded entirely on the original 1991 black face ADATs, if I'm remembering correctly based on what I read in Electronic Musician and MIX back in the 90's. ============== I found this unused song mix on a 16bit/48khz DAT I had in storage recently and hadn't heard it since I mixed it in 1997: www.dropbox.com/s/xh7kck5z539v9vc/ChadCox_AngelsCry_REMIX.mp3?dl=0Ignore the song itself, per se – it was a remix where I distorted the temporary lead vocal by overdriving an ART TUBE MP on purpose. Ugly, but oh well. But... I do notice some sonics about this recording that are full & fat and not squeezed or grainy sounding. Process:» Drums: Recorded via Shure mics into a MACKIE 24-8 » Guitars/Vocals/Bass/Piano: Recorded into my Yamaha Pro Mix 01 mixer's preamps; Bass = Direct; Vocal = Vintage U87; Piano = AT4050; Guitars = AT4050 (acoustic) & SM57 mic'd Fender Tweed Amp » Mix: 16 tracks (2 ADATS) into the Yamaha Pro Mix 01, internal FX + 1 outboard Lexicon MPX-1 Chad You’re remembering correctly, I bought my first ADAT after reading that article! Unfortunately my band didn’t quite sell as many copies as “Jagged Little Pill” did 🤣. The funniest thing I remember about the article is how “home studio,” sort of low budget it seemed….but then the more you read, you realized Glenn Ballard produced it, Flea & Dave Navarro played on “You Oughta Know,” and she sang through a Vintage AKG C12. All I could afford out of that bunch was the ADAT 🤷🏻♂️ Yeah there is so much Folk lore about this album. From the public and private stories the Narrative I have pieced together is that the ADAT rig at her house was probably mostly a writing rig, Ballard probably convinced Alesis and Mackie to loan her gear and they ran with the home recording Myth. I know a bunch of it was done at Glenn’s home studio, but I also was sitting next to a guy from Westlake Audio as Alesis was spinning their take who kept whispering about all the time they had spent at Westlake Studios. Since at the time when they started writing she was 19 I can see Ballard setting her up with a writing rig at home to keep the wolves at bay.
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Post by notneeson on Jan 26, 2023 16:33:52 GMT -6
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 26, 2023 17:36:05 GMT -6
You’re remembering correctly, I bought my first ADAT after reading that article! Unfortunately my band didn’t quite sell as many copies as “Jagged Little Pill” did 🤣. The funniest thing I remember about the article is how “home studio,” sort of low budget it seemed….but then the more you read, you realized Glenn Ballard produced it, Flea & Dave Navarro played on “You Oughta Know,” and she sang through a Vintage AKG C12. All I could afford out of that bunch was the ADAT 🤷🏻♂️ Ha! So true! But even the ADAT seemed so expensive at the time for one deck at $2,500-ish + tax from Sweetwater. And I remember selling a bunch and noticing my commission wasn’t that big!
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Post by chessparov on Jan 26, 2023 19:24:16 GMT -6
I have no nostalgia for ADAT's. OR DA88's for that matter..... Just B-ULS's... Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 19:35:18 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm not buying this one.. ADAT was just a cheap digital format (relative for the day), I've heard too many stunning analog style classical recordings or live band recordings to ever believe ADAT had anything to do with it (or that it's remotely better). Issue with modern direct to DAW w/ plugins is you can edit it to oblivion, sometimes less really is more and cliche's are cliche's for a reason.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 26, 2023 20:36:45 GMT -6
In my case it wasn't the format, it was the engineer/producer and our road-tight band. Barry Poynter was/is incredibly talented. 1996 and unfortunately, masters sold to Sony. My contribution to "let's record to video tape" (singer/rhythm guitar/songwriter) lives on here. Recorded in Little Rock over 28 days and Barry had to drive to Nashville to get a replacement DA88 about midway through. Sign of the times.
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Post by gevermil on Jan 26, 2023 22:44:52 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm not buying this one.. ADAT was just a cheap digital format (relative for the day), I've heard too many stunning analog style classical recordings or live band recordings to ever believe ADAT had anything to do with it (or that it's remotely better). Issue with modern direct to DAW w/ plugins is you can edit it to oblivion, sometimes less really is more and cliche's are cliche's for a reason. I hear what I hear . bigger rounder bass , great guitar crunch , punchy drums .
I was dissapointed back then when I first compared adat to my 1/2" 8 track but I kept the adat . I recorded very simple too so yeah there could be a less is more thing going on .
ill try and post some stuff
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Post by EmRR on Jan 26, 2023 22:50:04 GMT -6
You’re remembering correctly, I bought my first ADAT after reading that article! Unfortunately my band didn’t quite sell as many copies as “Jagged Little Pill” did 🤣. The funniest thing I remember about the article is how “home studio,” sort of low budget it seemed….but then the more you read, you realized Glenn Ballard produced it, Flea & Dave Navarro played on “You Oughta Know,” and she sang through a Vintage AKG C12. All I could afford out of that bunch was the ADAT 🤷🏻♂️ Ha! So true! But even the ADAT seemed so expensive at the time for one deck at $2,500-ish + tax from Sweetwater. Dude. Blackfaces were $4000 1993 dollars when they came out, and there was a waiting list. I bet you could get a couple of C12’s for that then.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 22:56:02 GMT -6
I hear what I hear . bigger rounder bass , great guitar crunch , punchy drums .
I was dissapointed back then when I first compared adat to my 1/2" 8 track but I kept the adat . I recorded very simple too so yeah there could be a less is more thing going on .
ill try and post some stuff
Go for it, the issue for me is whenever I've heard or used ADAT it came off an expensive console with great tracking rooms and by modern standards it's quite an unfair comparison. We're not talking plugins vs. hardware here, it's a matter of whatever they wanted they bought and it usually was hardware.
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Post by Chad on Jan 27, 2023 3:27:36 GMT -6
Ha! So true! But even the ADAT seemed so expensive at the time for one deck at $2,500-ish + tax from Sweetwater. Dude. Blackfaces were $4000 1993 dollars when they came out, and there was a waiting list. I bet you could get a couple of C12’s for that then. Wow. That’s nuts. I got my black face in early Summer of ‘96, just as they were offloading their old Black Face stock to transition over to the new XT versions. The following year — 1997 — I bought an XT so I could have 16 tracks (vs only 8 that I started with), and it was $2,320 (Sweetwater still has my order history in their system).
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Post by EmRR on Jan 27, 2023 7:08:55 GMT -6
Dude. Blackfaces were $4000 1993 dollars when they came out, and there was a waiting list. I bet you could get a couple of C12’s for that then. Wow. That’s nuts. I got my black face in early Summer of ‘96, just as they were offloading their old Black Face stock to transition over to the new XT versions. The following year — 1997 — I bought an XT so I could have 16 tracks (vs only 8 that I started with), and it was $2,320 (Sweetwater still has my order history in their system). I looked for a used second machine, didn’t see any until ‘95 then that was $1800. Yep on the XT20’s! Huge drop from the start.
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Post by gevermil on Jan 27, 2023 10:02:02 GMT -6
I hear what I hear . bigger rounder bass , great guitar crunch , punchy drums .
I was dissapointed back then when I first compared adat to my 1/2" 8 track but I kept the adat . I recorded very simple too so yeah there could be a less is more thing going on .
ill try and post some stuff
Go for it, the issue for me is whenever I've heard or used ADAT it came off an expensive console with great tracking rooms and by modern standards it's quite an unfair comparison. We're not talking plugins vs. hardware here, it's a matter of whatever they wanted they bought and it usually was hardware. Oh I'm not using adat again, I don't even know where mine went. All I do is track and its mostly GBV Type stuff , so nice and clean isn't my thing . I was just curious if the " type" of conversion was making a difference? Or maybe it was just youth, but I don't think so. Its hilarious, whenever adat is brought up everybody immediately screams Alanis morsette!!!
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Post by svart on Jan 27, 2023 10:18:15 GMT -6
I often go back to my earliest recordings and remark at how decent stuff I recorded sounded back then before I let years of following the advice of folks online destroy my instinct for it.. lol.
Anyway, what I think happens is nothing to do with the format and everything to do with expectations.
Today, we just expect years of experience and gear upgrades to have made such a huge difference that our expectations are completely skewed. We expect that everything old and done on "bad" gear to sound.. well, bad!
but the truth is that it doesn't. It never did. The marketing has worked in promoting every new iteration of something as "lightyears ahead" of whatever came before and we eventually lose the comparison in our minds as we progress through the "newest and best" of whatever gadget it is.
But the gear from yesteryear only sounds like it has some kind of magic because your expectation of it was so low through years of careful marketing manipulation and the desire for you money to have been spent wisely.
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Post by gevermil on Jan 27, 2023 10:22:42 GMT -6
Yeah , I agree ,, mostly 🙂
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