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Post by donr on Jan 20, 2023 11:50:58 GMT -6
I've heard folks describe Mr. Rubin as someone who just happens to be present when great music happens and records are made. Sort of like an accidental musical tourist. Or an accidental musical taurus (since he was born March 10th) Really depends on who the artist is mentally. I know a band who HATED working with a very well known producer that we all know the name of. They claim that the result was a man-handled mess that wasn't anything like they wanted and felt taken advantage of as a young band. Other folks I know who've worked with him say he's a great guy and easy to work with. It depends on the producer I suppose. BOC came very close to working with Mutt Lange after our "Spectres" LP. He wanted to do it, but the scheduling didn't work out, unfortunately. I would have jumped at the opportunity for the band to be man-handled by Mutt. Would have changed our lives, most likely! |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 20, 2023 11:55:13 GMT -6
Even if all he’d ever done was the Wildflowers album, I’d love him for that. I loved Jeff Lynne-era Petty, but turning the corner away from Lynne-style production and getting Wildflowers on the first try is nothing to sneeze at. New drummer for the Heartbreakers and all, Rubin helped keep that ship afloat and moving.
I love what he did with Johnny Cash, and to a lesser degree with Neil Diamond. In those records, I always thought he managed to grab ahold of something essential to the Artist that had been lacking for awhile in their career. That’s not easy to do. Maybe technically hands off, but he did *something* that inspired those artists to do good work, and at a time in their careers where that is NOT a given.
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Post by svart on Jan 20, 2023 12:00:10 GMT -6
Really depends on who the artist is mentally. I know a band who HATED working with a very well known producer that we all know the name of. They claim that the result was a man-handled mess that wasn't anything like they wanted and felt taken advantage of as a young band. Other folks I know who've worked with him say he's a great guy and easy to work with. It depends on the producer I suppose. BOC came very close to working with Mutt Lange after our "Spectres" LP. He wanted to do it, but the scheduling didn't work out, unfortunately. I would have jumped at the opportunity for the band to be man-handled by Mutt. Would have changed our lives, most likely! Kind of what I mean though, you *wanted* it. The band I mentioned were all young (barely adults). I think it was more of a rebellious/ego thing to say that they had a hard time. I believe it was a "you're working with a producer if you want us(the label) to put out your record" kind of deal, and as we all know, a handful of young men can never be "wrong" on anything! They thought that the producer was just watering down their art, etc.. Either way, I don't think the album got any promotion and they broke up soon after. I mean, I'm not *producer* in the sense that I help write songs. I occasionally get asked about my opinion, and my ideas are frequently shot down by those who favor their own ideas most. |
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Post by donr on Jan 20, 2023 12:11:03 GMT -6
It depends on the producer I suppose. BOC came very close to working with Mutt Lange after our "Spectres" LP. He wanted to do it, but the scheduling didn't work out, unfortunately. I would have jumped at the opportunity for the band to be man-handled by Mutt. Would have changed our lives, most likely! Kind of what I mean though, you *wanted* it. The band I mentioned were all young (barely adults). I think it was more of a rebellious/ego thing to say that they had a hard time. I believe it was a "you're working with a producer if you want us(the label) to put out your record" kind of deal, and as we all know, a handful of young men can never be "wrong" on anything! They thought that the producer was just watering down their art, etc.. Either way, I don't think the album got any promotion and they broke up soon after. I mean, I'm not *producer* in the sense that I help write songs. I occasionally get asked about my opinion, and my ideas are frequently shot down by those who favor their own ideas most. When we started out, we were happy to take direction from the professionals, because we had no freakin' idea how to get our song performance onto a disk and come out of tiny speakers sounding any good. We did have our own ideas about arrangements, and were grateful to Columbia for the latitude they gave us. |
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Post by teejay on Jan 20, 2023 12:31:12 GMT -6
Regardless of whether you like him or the music he's been involved with, kudos to him for finding a way to make a living just lying around barefoot commenting on other people's music...and with no technical understanding or care (so he says) of the engineering side. He's either really good at actually leading artists down the magical path of simplification, or he's just convinced them he can. Either way, his gig has worked.
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Post by ragan on Jan 20, 2023 12:45:01 GMT -6
I suspect he’s kinda downplaying his understanding of both the musical and the technical sides of making records.
And I would argue that the ability to coax performances that resonate and help illuminate overall musical/vibe directions is a lot *more* rare and valuable than just being able to shoehorn a polished record out of whatever.
Rubin strikes me as a clarity guy. A calm in the storm kinda guy. Bands/artists can be erratic and volatile. A dude who deeply understands what makes a record impactful (which I think Rubin does, even if mostly at a gut level) and who the band/artist respects (they do or they wouldn’t have hired him) and will listen to…that’s a big asset.
Interesting and fascinating dude whose track record speaks for itself. The proof of the pudding…
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2023 13:15:22 GMT -6
I see a producer's job as making the best out of all the givens in any particular situation. I've had times when I needed to coax a performance out of someone who was nervous, times when a bad attitude needed a psychic ass kicking, and all the in between things.
Where Mr. Rubin excels in is getting through to the artist what they most need to do to attain or retain greatness. You can be the greatest engineer in town and not know how to direct an artist successfully. Performance and great content always tops recording quality.
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Post by Hudsonic on Jan 20, 2023 21:03:33 GMT -6
Rick Rubin mainly exerts strict quality control. He removes fluff and has the clarity to push through sorting through and trimming down to the best material. He is seen as a guru by those who need a guru. Lots of people in California need a guru. Certainly Kesha needs a guru. (she is talked about in the 60 minutes piece.)
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Post by drumsound on Jan 21, 2023 10:07:37 GMT -6
Really depends on who the artist is mentally. I know a band who HATED working with a very well known producer that we all know the name of. They claim that the result was a man-handled mess that wasn't anything like they wanted and felt taken advantage of as a young band. Other folks I know who've worked with him say he's a great guy and easy to work with. It depends on the producer I suppose. BOC came very close to working with Mutt Lange after our "Spectres" LP. He wanted to do it, but the scheduling didn't work out, unfortunately. I would have jumped at the opportunity for the band to be man-handled by Mutt. Would have changed our lives, most likely! Man-handled is the best description of a Mutt Lange production I ever heard. |
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Post by donr on Jan 21, 2023 15:33:42 GMT -6
I vaguely recall reading somewhere, about a studio control room with a producer's desk that had a knob on it that the producer could twist, to get more of whatever he wanted more of in a mix. Did I imagine that?
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 21, 2023 16:41:41 GMT -6
It’s easy to downplay his ability to just basically hang with an artist and guide them in a direction that brings out their best most of the time. I think a lot of us feel like, “I could do that!” But I think the big thing he’s accomplished is being in a position to have the artists trust him enough to follow those directions.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 21, 2023 16:50:44 GMT -6
It’s easy to downplay his ability to just basically hang with an artist and guide them in a direction that brings out their best most of the time. I think a lot of us feel like, “I could do that!” But I think the big thing he’s accomplished is being in a position to have the artists trust him enough to follow those directions. I think a lot of the Rick Rubin secret sauce is his ability to find artists that he can work with without changing his style. Many successful producers have that luxury and ability. Most of us don’t. Of course funny enough I have a bit more respect for those who will step out of their comfort zone and occasionally crash and burn. I’m |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 22, 2023 0:11:50 GMT -6
It’s easy to downplay his ability to just basically hang with an artist and guide them in a direction that brings out their best most of the time. I think a lot of us feel like, “I could do that!” But I think the big thing he’s accomplished is being in a position to have the artists trust him enough to follow those directions. I think a lot of the Rick Rubin secret sauce is his ability to find artists that he can work with without changing his style. Many successful producers have that luxury and ability. Most of us don’t. Of course funny enough I have a bit more respect for those who will step out of their comfort zone and occasionally crash and burn. I’m All due respect, that doesn't make much sense. Rubin's worked in every genre and has nailed it each time. Point being, I don't think he has a comfort zone and he has stepped out of it every time. |
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Post by drumsound on Jan 22, 2023 2:32:40 GMT -6
Even if all he’d ever done was the Wildflowers album, I’d love him for that. I loved Jeff Lynne-era Petty, but turning the corner away from Lynne-style production and getting Wildflowers on the first try is nothing to sneeze at. New drummer for the Heartbreakers and all, Rubin helped keep that ship afloat and moving. I love what he did with Johnny Cash, and to a lesser degree with Neil Diamond. In those records, I always thought he managed to grab ahold of something essential to the Artist that had been lacking for awhile in their career. That’s not easy to do. Maybe technically hands off, but he did *something* that inspired those artists to do good work, and at a time in their careers where that is NOT a given. I really think this is the essence of what he does. He hears the life or lack there of in a performance, in a song, in an artist. He promotes what is there, and pulls out the hidden. |
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Post by reddirt on Jan 22, 2023 2:35:38 GMT -6
I vaguely recall reading somewhere, about a studio control room with a producer's desk that had a knob on it that the producer could twist, to get more of whatever he wanted more of in a mix. Did I imagine that? No, it's true......there's an iconic Aussie song called "The real Thing" , the engineer was somewhat of a novice and the producer (Molly Meldrum) was asking for more excitement. At his wits end the engineer sought out the head engineer who was working somewhere else in the facility and asked him what to do. The head engineers got under the desk , pretended to connect a few cables to a fader, labelled the fader excitement and presto, the producer was rapt and the record came to be one of the biggest and most enduring hits in Australian music history. Recorded in the early 70's and still often heard today. As to the 60 mins story; I get where RR is coming from particularly the philosophy of the artist tapping in to the best of what is unique to them. Of course the value of the story was helped immensely by the ATCs on the meter bridge! Cheers, Ross |
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Post by levon on Jan 22, 2023 4:29:55 GMT -6
Link still doesn't work. I either get a 404 error or they object to my ad blocker, depending on which of the 2 links provided here I use. Ah, well.... |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 22, 2023 10:07:05 GMT -6
I think a lot of the Rick Rubin secret sauce is his ability to find artists that he can work with without changing his style. Many successful producers have that luxury and ability. Most of us don’t. Of course funny enough I have a bit more respect for those who will step out of their comfort zone and occasionally crash and burn. I’m All due respect, that doesn't make much sense. Rubin's worked in every genre and has nailed it each time. Point being, I don't think he has a comfort zone and he has stepped out of it every time. It’s not about genre, it’s about the artist and what that artist needs. 2 musically similar singer songwriters can require completely different approaches to get the most out of them. Hell any type of performer or workers type and level of support need to maximize their performance is seldom a function of what they do it’s more about personality. |
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Post by ericn on Jan 22, 2023 10:10:49 GMT -6
I vaguely recall reading somewhere, about a studio control room with a producer's desk that had a knob on it that the producer could twist, to get more of whatever he wanted more of in a mix. Did I imagine that? No, it's true......there's an iconic Aussie song called "The real Thing" , the engineer was somewhat of a novice and the producer (Molly Meldrum) was asking for more excitement. At his wits end the engineer sought out the head engineer who was working somewhere else in the facility and asked him what to do. The head engineers got under the desk , pretended to connect a few cables to a fader, labelled the fader excitement and presto, the producer was rapt and the record came to be one of the biggest and most enduring hits in Australian music history. Recorded in the early 70's and still often heard today. As to the 60 mins story; I get where RR is coming from particularly the philosophy of the artist tapping in to the best of what is unique to them. Of course the value of the story was helped immensely by the ATCs on the meter bridge! Cheers, Ross Of course countless of us have had a channel on the desk routed to nowhere, so a producer or band member can add or subtract what ever mystical magic is needed, often some great legendary outboard is also involved. |
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Post by teejay on Jan 22, 2023 19:54:28 GMT -6
Link still doesn't work. I either get a 404 error or they object to my ad blocker, depending on which of the 2 links provided here I use. Ah, well.... It works. Sorry, must be something on your end. |
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 22, 2023 20:11:44 GMT -6
Link still doesn't work. I either get a 404 error or they object to my ad blocker, depending on which of the 2 links provided here I use. Ah, well.... It works. Sorry, must be something on your end. Not working here either....  |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 22, 2023 23:35:03 GMT -6
Producers all approach the rule differently. Some are very hands on and mold the music to fit their own artistic vision, while others manage personalities. I think what Rick does best is stripping bands or artist back to their rawest form and highlights what makes them great and unique. And that’s usually highlighting a voice and not throwing a ton of “stuff” on it, or if it’s a band keeping it to the essentials. It takes all kinds. It’s up to you if something from Rick’s process can translate to what you do or want to do. I think everyone could benefit from being more tuned it with the feelings and emotions and personalities in the room and less with the gear in the rack…it distracts from the connection with the people and the music. I don’t have any memories of the type of microphones or signal chain I used on most projects, but I remember the people and whatever funny or sad or incredible moment might have happened in the process of making that record. And I think that’s what Rick taps into…and if he knew a bunch of stuff about gear to where he’d have to think about it that would dull his ability to listen Or burying this This quip from the comments section sums up my exact feelings: 'All the people saying "I can play better than this, this sucks," etc. You might be able to play better, but the fact is, you didn't. Tom Araya did. And he's the bassist and singer in fuckin' Slayer and you can all gargle his balls.' |
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Post by Quint on Jan 23, 2023 9:24:09 GMT -6
This quip from the comments section sums up my exact feelings: 'All the people saying "I can play better than this, this sucks," etc. You might be able to play better, but the fact is, you didn't. Tom Araya did. And he's the bassist and singer in fuckin' Slayer and you can all gargle his balls.' Speaking of gargling balls, it's that sort of sentiment that turns me off to a lot of metal/thrash/(insert any other genre where technical prowess tends to take more importance than songwriting). It all just turns into a dick measuring contest with a lot of these metal bros. My band's heavier than yours or that guy can play faster than that guy or whatever. Who gives a shit if the songs aren't any good? There are, of course, exceptions. Pantera, for example, had guys who could really play their instruments, but they also had songs that you wanted to listen to more than once. Now I'm sure that there are guys out there that would say, Pantera are a bunch of pansies, and band X are heavier and the real deal. Dick measuring contest.... Which is funny, because Pantera said the same thing about Metallica's later work not being "heavy" enough, so it's not like Pantera was immune from the dick measuring themselves. In fairness, I didn't care for the later Metallica either, but not because it wasn't "heavy" enough. I just thought the songs weren't as good. Which brings us back to Rick Ruben. Death Magnetic was produced by Ruben and, in my opinion, not up there with his best productions (granted that's some really stiff competition), though I wouldn't say that Death Magnetic is bad and I actually kind of like it. I do think it's better than all of Metallica's late 90s or early to mid 2000s stuff and is basically the best thing they've done since And Justice For All. |
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Post by teejay on Jan 23, 2023 9:56:59 GMT -6
It works. Sorry, must be something on your end. Not working here either.... View AttachmentNot sure what to tell you guys. It works every time for me. Try this instead: Go to cbsnews.com, click on the search magnifying glass in the top menu bar, and then type "Rick" in the search dialog box. You should get several links to the interview. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 23, 2023 10:34:53 GMT -6
Not sure what to tell you guys. It works every time for me. Try this instead: Go to cbsnews.com, click on the search magnifying glass in the top menu bar, and then type "Rick" in the search dialog box. You should get several links to the interview. You could also google "Rick Rubin 60 Minutes interview on CBS." |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 23, 2023 11:07:08 GMT -6
Cleaned up some politics.
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