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Post by copperx on Jan 17, 2023 22:21:42 GMT -6
As an aside, I suspect at least some portion of what we accept as 'vintage tone' has to do less with the sound of the unit as intended by the designers, and more to do with old electrolytics. Anyone who's ever worked on a vintage Neve desk that's been freshly re-capped knows EXACTLY what I mean. Which raises the obvious question ... does anybody purposely build clones or create mods with old capacitors to get that rolled off hf response? |
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Post by smashlord on Jan 17, 2023 23:15:33 GMT -6
Anyone who's ever worked on a vintage Neve desk that's been freshly re-capped knows EXACTLY what I mean. Yes, "air" is a beautiful thing! |
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Post by sean on Jan 17, 2023 23:24:51 GMT -6
The JLM LA500A is a great sounding compressor and an easy build if you are DIY inclined Curious about this one. Does it have the midrange push of a 3A or is it sonically more in line with the 2As? Many moons ago I A/B mine against a pair of vintage Teletronix unit and it was interchangeable to me with one, and then it sounded slightly different from the other one tonally. Not better, not worse, just different. I think the additional ratios, side chain filter, and slow attack option of the LA500A definitely makes it one the more flexible 500 series opto compressors. And it’s an easy build |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 17, 2023 23:56:25 GMT -6
As an aside, I suspect at least some portion of what we accept as 'vintage tone' has to do less with the sound of the unit as intended by the designers, and more to do with old electrolytics. Anyone who's ever worked on a vintage Neve desk that's been freshly re-capped knows EXACTLY what I mean. Which raises the obvious question ... does anybody purposely build clones or create mods with old capacitors to get that rolled off hf response? I'm not sure there's much value in this. Caps age differently, and the result is unpredictable and one of the reasons vintage gear sounds so different from unit to unit (or channel to channel, as in an old desk). It's also really easy to narrow the bandwidth, and much harder to 'recover' missing spectral information, so I'd offer it's better to have it there than not. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 18, 2023 2:21:41 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Jan 18, 2023 8:06:21 GMT -6
But I will tell you that $699 is not double $500 and you know I'm gonna speak on behalf of the AS. Cos it's a 1:1 recreation of the LA3a in a 500 series single space. I have both. Just one small correction ... it's $799, at least on Audioscape's site. My bad. You're absolutely correct. We had a sale on a couple few months back and that sale price (way too cheap imho) was suck in my craw |
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Post by Ward on Jan 18, 2023 8:08:19 GMT -6
But I will tell you that $699 is not double $500 and you know I'm gonna speak on behalf of the AS. Cos it's a 1:1 recreation of the LA3a in a 500 series single space. I have both. I used my old La3a and the V3a interchangeably. I cannot tell them apart. Sold me on it. I had a very easy time distinguishing my AS 3A from my tele 3A. The AS 3a had a much more neutral and extended top end; the Tele units (being 50-ish years old!) noticeably rolled off the HF. I don't chalk this up to 'box tone', per se, but more to the fact that my half-century old compressors needed a recap. The compression action and midrange were identical to my Tele boxes to my ears. The bottom end was a bit more extended on the AS box; again, probably a capacitor issue. For the types of things I like 3As on, this extended bandwidth suited me very nicely. The rest of the tone nailed the vintage 3A action, and it made selling those old units an easy decision (especially given the price tag they're fetching these days). As an aside, I suspect at least some portion of what we accept as 'vintage tone' has to do less with the sound of the unit as intended by the designers, and more to do with old electrolytics. Anyone who's ever worked on a vintage Neve desk that's been freshly re-capped knows EXACTLY what I mean. Man, we love you! You are an absolute treasure. You highlight the difference, acknowledge the cause and provide a solution. I wish more people were like you!! Yeah, a re-capping would fix the vintage 3a's loss of extended high end. And to follow up . . . |
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Post by Ward on Jan 18, 2023 8:12:48 GMT -6
As an aside, I suspect at least some portion of what we accept as 'vintage tone' has to do less with the sound of the unit as intended by the designers, and more to do with old electrolytics. Anyone who's ever worked on a vintage Neve desk that's been freshly re-capped knows EXACTLY what I mean. Which raises the obvious question ... does anybody purposely build clones or create mods with old capacitors to get that rolled off hf response? Not to the best of my knowledge! Well, BLA did try and emulate the modded circuits of CLA's original Bluey. Hats off to them for even trying to do the impossible. The audioscape credo is much like a few other boutique builders' ways of doing things ... we just go way over the top to every single exact spec so that the re-created units are the way the originals would have rolled off the assembly line if all the stars were perfectly aligned. And of course the whole quality control thing is a HUGE factor is keeping noise and unwanted various types of distortion out of the units. And then there's the whole "not catching fire" aspect of things. When you're mid-session and smoke starts coming out of your old 1176, 2a, 3a and 4 . . . well, it's a bit off-putting and kind of kills the session. Unless you're into that sorta thing, of course. OK, I'll take my AS Evangelist hat off now. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 18, 2023 8:27:37 GMT -6
Which raises the obvious question ... does anybody purposely build clones or create mods with old capacitors to get that rolled off hf response? Not to the best of my knowledge! Well, BLA did try and emulate the modded circuits of CLA's original Bluey. Hats off to them for even trying to do the impossible. The audioscape credo is much like a few other boutique builders' ways of doing things ... we just go way over the top to every single exact spec so that the re-created units are the way the originals would have rolled off the assembly line if all the stars were perfectly aligned. And of course the whole quality control thing is a HUGE factor is keeping noise and unwanted various types of distortion out of the units. And then there's the whole "not catching fire" aspect of things. When you're mid-session and smoke starts coming out of your old 1176, 2a, 3a and 4 . . . well, it's a bit off-putting and kind of kills the session. Unless you're into that sorta thing, of course. OK, I'll take my AS Evangelist hat off now. Almost true :-) I would love, love, love Audioscape to do an "Premium Authentic Line" and make point to point hand wired LA2A's - I think it makes a real difference to the tone, subtle of course but this whole game is a game of inches. They would have an extra cost (of course) but I bet Audioscape would be surprised and impressed at the demand for true traditional construction. Amp makers often have a PCB and hand wired version. My most valued pieces are my Retro STA Level, Thermionic Phoenix MP, The Swift and my BAE 1073D .... all point to point hand wired  A point to point hand wired Audioscape Opto would be amazing and well worth the extra saving up imho. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 18, 2023 10:53:32 GMT -6
Almost true :-) I would love, love, love Audioscape to do an "Premium Authentic Line" and make point to point hand wired LA2A's - I think it makes a real difference to the tone, subtle of course but this whole game is a game of inches. They would have an extra cost (of course) but I bet Audioscape would be surprised and impressed at the demand for true traditional construction. Amp makers often have a PCB and hand wired version. My most valued pieces are my Retro STA Level, Thermionic Phoenix MP, The Swift and my BAE 1073D .... all point to point hand wired A point to point hand wired Audioscape Opto would be amazing and well worth the extra saving up imho. That's an interesting take on PCV vs PTP. I talked with one manufacturer I trust who does both that said their PCB version sounded virtually identical to their PTP version of old tube gear. It's so hard to really know as so little PTP being done these days. |
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Post by plinker on Jan 18, 2023 11:31:47 GMT -6
Is there any physical/electronics reason why PCB and PTP shouldn't sound the same?
Maybe more EMI with PCB?
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Post by Ward on Jan 18, 2023 12:06:52 GMT -6
Is there any physical/electronics reason why PCB and PTP shouldn't sound the same? Maybe more EMI with PCB? Negligible at best. I've never heard it but then again, in my shop everything is wired properly. Seimens panels, more than enough amperage available. Everything regulated at the panels for 117V constantly. 32 individual circuits. All lines run using BX, and 7 grounds/earths run for circuit groups...not just one central ground. I'd say if you're running everything on one of two circuits with extension cords crossing over each other and audio cabling, it might be more of a concern. But you can't forget the 'appeal' of donning a top hat, munching on a cucumber sandwich and speaking with an Oxford accent "but, my good man, these are point to point." LOL... only ribbing! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 18, 2023 12:30:45 GMT -6
Ptp is all about being electrified connecting with inner beauty: its a spiritual thing ! |
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Post by Ward on Jan 18, 2023 12:47:32 GMT -6
Ptp is all about being electrified connecting with inner beauty: its a spiritual thing ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yes, so true. Reminds me of this. |
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Post by smashlord on Jan 18, 2023 23:13:44 GMT -6
That's an interesting take on PCV vs PTP. I talked with one manufacturer I trust who does both that said their PCB version sounded virtually identical to their PTP version of old tube gear. It's so hard to really know as so little PTP being done these days. There is a BTS video tour of the Marshall factory where the foreman talks about how the current production PCB and HW Superleads sound the same and they only make 2 versions because people ask for them. They even take the placebo as far as having their parts suppliers make resistors and caps to visually look like vintage ones for the HW model, but are the same spec as what goes on the PCB models. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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Post by ericn on Jan 19, 2023 21:35:55 GMT -6
Ptp is all about being electrified connecting with inner beauty: its a spiritual thing ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yes, so true. Reminds me of this. Umm what’s your point 😁 You know I had to. |
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