|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 16, 2023 6:42:45 GMT -6
Thx! Happy with my aurora, so what computers are they going to use with no Tb ? Or is this all the usb-c tb confusion stuff ?
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 16, 2023 6:49:02 GMT -6
“Apple silicon Macs and Thunderbolt Support Apple is transitioning away from Intel's chips in its Mac and is instead opting to use Apple silicon chips, but Apple is continuing to support Intel's Thunderbolt USB-C standard.“
Unless, Lynx drops driver support, little concern here. I also used one of the legacy os updaters recently and got current Ventura working fine on my unsupported 2012 mbp.
Think i will run my m1 mini and aurora N till they die.
I’m really only interested in a couple of pieces of HW and monitors.
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 16, 2023 11:31:41 GMT -6
Like many things Presonus, I’m guessing this is a quality control issue. I’ve never heard Sceptres so I don’t know, but I’ve heard a lot of people say they are a great bang for your buck and others say they have issues. In general though, I think it’s time to start talking about Presonus as mid-level gear in some cases. They have really stepped up their game over the last few years. Faderport series are awesome. Their new Quantum series I’ve seen in some real studios around town. Fast and reliable with great software integration, and if you have your own preamps who cares about the rest? And then there is Studio One. Big fan. I think they get kind of a bad rap because the entry-level stuff is, well, entry-level. And the quality control issues. Quantum has high noisefloor and unstable drivers. Not a fan. Thunderbolt interfaces are going the way of the dodo like FireWire too. I think this is a case of the inconsistent build quality. My buddy runs a pretty high volume studio and while I wouldn't say he's a "golden ears" type, he's definitely not someone dealing with noise floor issues. On the other hand he runs a LFAC and records to tape, so maybe he wouldn't notice! So much noise already.
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 16, 2023 11:38:39 GMT -6
“Apple silicon Macs and Thunderbolt Support Apple is transitioning away from Intel's chips in its Mac and is instead opting to use Apple silicon chips, but Apple is continuing to support Intel's Thunderbolt USB-C standard.“ Unless, Lynx drops driver support, little concern here. I also used one of the legacy os updaters recently and got current Ventura working fine on my unsupported 2012 mbp. Think i will run my m1 mini and aurora N till they die. I’m really only interested in a couple of pieces of HW and monitors. This actually gets back to a previous topic on this thread. How long are we expecting this stuff to last? I'm not talking about disposable junk either, I'm saying that I think it's reasonable to assume that you're going to replace your interface periodically. So for example, I'm loving my MOTU 828es (although getting it configured was so painful that I could probably bring war crimes against MOTU under the Geneva Convention... another topic) but I'm not expecting it to run for 15 years. Why? Because I'll probably need to upgrade my Mini M1 to keep up with software demands at some point and there will likely be compatibility issues by then. Or maybe not. Some of the old 828's (very old) still run fine. Point is, I'm probably going to want to upgrade my interface long before it goes obsolete. And I just bought my computer last year. I know enough about Apple to know that this exact machine will sit in my studio for 5 years at minimum, so I'm good for that long. After that, I don't know... not too worried.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Jan 16, 2023 13:12:35 GMT -6
“Apple silicon Macs and Thunderbolt Support Apple is transitioning away from Intel's chips in its Mac and is instead opting to use Apple silicon chips, but Apple is continuing to support Intel's Thunderbolt USB-C standard.“ Unless, Lynx drops driver support, little concern here. I also used one of the legacy os updaters recently and got current Ventura working fine on my unsupported 2012 mbp. Think i will run my m1 mini and aurora N till they die. I’m really only interested in a couple of pieces of HW and monitors. This actually gets back to a previous topic on this thread. How long are we expecting this stuff to last? I'm not talking about disposable junk either, I'm saying that I think it's reasonable to assume that you're going to replace your interface periodically. So for example, I'm loving my MOTU 828es (although getting it configured was so painful that I could probably bring war crimes against MOTU under the Geneva Convention... another topic) but I'm not expecting it to run for 15 years. Why? Because I'll probably need to upgrade my Mini M1 to keep up with software demands at some point and there will likely be compatibility issues by then. Or maybe not. Some of the old 828's (very old) still run fine. Point is, I'm probably going to want to upgrade my interface long before it goes obsolete. And I just bought my computer last year. I know enough about Apple to know that this exact machine will sit in my studio for 5 years at minimum, so I'm good for that long. After that, I don't know... not too worried. This is where RME becomes the Kings of the Castle. They write drivers for all of their legacy pieces when new OS are released. My buddy has the RME interface he bought in college and can run it on a brand new computer. He's 36. By adding an RME MADIface ($1Kish) I was able integrate my 1st generation Antelope Orion into a new MacStudio. That was a significant savings during my upgrade last summer.
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Jan 16, 2023 14:10:18 GMT -6
This actually gets back to a previous topic on this thread. How long are we expecting this stuff to last? I'm not talking about disposable junk either, I'm saying that I think it's reasonable to assume that you're going to replace your interface periodically. So for example, I'm loving my MOTU 828es (although getting it configured was so painful that I could probably bring war crimes against MOTU under the Geneva Convention... another topic) but I'm not expecting it to run for 15 years. Why? Because I'll probably need to upgrade my Mini M1 to keep up with software demands at some point and there will likely be compatibility issues by then. Or maybe not. Some of the old 828's (very old) still run fine. Point is, I'm probably going to want to upgrade my interface long before it goes obsolete. And I just bought my computer last year. I know enough about Apple to know that this exact machine will sit in my studio for 5 years at minimum, so I'm good for that long. After that, I don't know... not too worried. This is where RME becomes the Kings of the Castle. They write drivers for all of their legacy pieces when new OS are released. My buddy has the RME interface he bought in college and can run it on a brand new computer. He's 36. By adding an RME MADIface ($1Kish) I was able integrate my 1st generation Antelope Orion into a new MacStudio. That was a significant savings during my upgrade last summer. Yes yes RME rules for this - and Metric Halo, too. Every one of the MH boxes is hardware upgradeable to the latest and greatest. Or at least, the 2882 and ULN-2 will be as soon as the supply chain issues lighten up.
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 16, 2023 14:16:45 GMT -6
I think in terms of 5 year IT cycles, your gear still has some resale value, and you never have door stop gear?
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Jan 16, 2023 14:54:49 GMT -6
What kind of dynaudios do you have? I have some core59s arriving Tuesday and hope they won’t be going back 😊 Think I have to start by asking my favorite rhetorical question about monitors... which is, why is it that if every manufacturer & their marketing department claims their speakers "are flat" - why do they all sound so damn different? I have a now ancient set of Dyn BM15 - passive - w/ a Hafler Transnova amp. Bought them long ago after a set of smackie 824's that I was never completely happy with blew up for the 3rd or 4th time. Time to step up & buy something real. Back in the day NYC and northern NJ had a handful of dedicated pro shops where you could make an appointment and actually go in and listen to a bunch of different things side by side... instant real time A/B/C comparisons with the same source material. If anyone lives near a dealer like that, even if its a 3 or 4 hour road trip? Do it. Get your ass & your ears out there. In my case when I found the BM15's... which honestly hadn't even been on my radar at the time... it was like an instant magnifying glass. Apply all the cliche's here but I had instantly seen the light. Listened to mixes I was happy with and its like, why did I pick that reverb? That doesn't blend at all. Back to the initial point... they all sound wildly different. At the time I was kinda interested in the Adam S3A (?) that was kinda new and all the rage. Once I was in the room at Dale side by side? First time hearing the Adams I just didn't dig 'em. The clincher for me was Faith No More's "The Real Thing" which is a painfully bright album. No bottom, all treble. The Dyns told me that album was bright. The Adam's it sounded kinda normal. Ultimately I wanted a pair of monitors that'd make me really dig in and work harder. Still happy with that choice. And I still don't really dig Adam monitors but like others including the NS10 I've gotten used to them. If you can get out & listen its really educational.
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 16, 2023 15:25:18 GMT -6
This actually gets back to a previous topic on this thread. How long are we expecting this stuff to last? I'm not talking about disposable junk either, I'm saying that I think it's reasonable to assume that you're going to replace your interface periodically. So for example, I'm loving my MOTU 828es (although getting it configured was so painful that I could probably bring war crimes against MOTU under the Geneva Convention... another topic) but I'm not expecting it to run for 15 years. Why? Because I'll probably need to upgrade my Mini M1 to keep up with software demands at some point and there will likely be compatibility issues by then. Or maybe not. Some of the old 828's (very old) still run fine. Point is, I'm probably going to want to upgrade my interface long before it goes obsolete. And I just bought my computer last year. I know enough about Apple to know that this exact machine will sit in my studio for 5 years at minimum, so I'm good for that long. After that, I don't know... not too worried. This is where RME becomes the Kings of the Castle. They write drivers for all of their legacy pieces when new OS are released. My buddy has the RME interface he bought in college and can run it on a brand new computer. He's 36. By adding an RME MADIface ($1Kish) I was able integrate my 1st generation Antelope Orion into a new MacStudio. That was a significant savings during my upgrade last summer. I looked very closely at RME last year when I was moving off of Apollo for this exact reason. And it's pretty appealing. But in the end I just couldn't afford the amount of I/O I would need. MOTU 828es + MOTU 24ao was something like $2k. Pair that with my already existing Cranborne 500 and UA 4-710 and I've got 26 inputs and 44 outputs. No way to reasonable afford it (for me) on RME. But they've been rock solid forever, they are definitely Kings of reliability.
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 16, 2023 15:27:48 GMT -6
What kind of dynaudios do you have? I have some core59s arriving Tuesday and hope they won’t be going back 😊 Think I have to start by asking my favorite rhetorical question about monitors... which is, why is it that if every manufacturer & their marketing department claims their speakers "are flat" - why do they all sound so damn different? Can someone answer this? I've always wondered about this too.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Jan 16, 2023 15:39:41 GMT -6
Think I have to start by asking my favorite rhetorical question about monitors... which is, why is it that if every manufacturer & their marketing department claims their speakers "are flat" - why do they all sound so damn different? Can someone answer this? I've always wondered about this too. First because when it comes to speakers “ Flat” is in reality a series of peaks and dips, in real lit it will always be followed by an excepted deviation (+-) l. Second, it’s about where these peaks and valleys are that matters. Third, this is a biggie, concepts such as “ bright” brittle” “thin”” etc can have as much to do with distortion characteristics as Frq response, it’s just easy to think it’s all about amplitude when it can be how a diaphragm breaks up or flexes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 16:10:49 GMT -6
Think I have to start by asking my favorite rhetorical question about monitors... which is, why is it that if every manufacturer & their marketing department claims their speakers "are flat" - why do they all sound so damn different? Can someone answer this? I've always wondered about this too. Firstly we don't listen to speakers in an anechoic chamber, they all produce various types of distortion, as eric says there are frequency imbalances and they have different crossovers, transient and phase response. Let's not even get into the variably complex physics of room interaction (even furniture), every room sounds different never mind the monitors. Monitor designs can work with or against your room, not many are fortunate enough to be able to do freestanding and even then it's interesting how this "33%" rule works with front ported plus what effect rear ported can have when up against a wall.
I've done a bucket load of REW and ARC measurements at this point, it's a headache beyond getting 3 sets of monitors to test and just setting them up. What I have learned throughout this venture is some speakers do not like my room and others love them. Front ported or sealed up against a wall works best for me..
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Jan 16, 2023 17:12:37 GMT -6
Think I have to start by asking my favorite rhetorical question about monitors... which is, why is it that if every manufacturer & their marketing department claims their speakers "are flat" - why do they all sound so damn different? Can someone answer this? I've always wondered about this too. Short answer: I can’t. Long answer: One thing it only took me many years of misguided education to realize: the Fletcher Munson curves are the AVG of the typical human ear response- NOT any actual single ear response. After much contemplation, I decided to do my own experiments on myself and figured I should be able to recreate the curves- IF my monitoring is flat, then it should look the same when I do a sweep? Then I can decide for myself which dB to set monitors. I realized since humans detect loudness as an avg- NOT peak- I’d have to run a sweep pretty slow. Those less than 1 second “self align” sweeps and impulse responses aren’t going to make any sense to the human ear: that’s peak level= transients only. I wonder if any engineering math wizards really consider that? Luckily I think most amps/speakers follow peak and rms response closely. Pink noise is another area I became skeptical of: if the tone is random then it’s not lasting long enough to become RMS. Again I felt a slow sweep would make the most sense. I made a 20-20kHz sweep that lasted 90 seconds or so. I figured that would seem close enough to RMS level. And I used a volume fader to record automation.. Rewind and re-do as much as needed until the automation smoothed out every high and low point. Results were interesting. It followed the Fletcher Munson loudness Curve but much, much less dramatic. I was shocked how smooth and linear most of the SR was to my ear. In other words TRUST YOUR EARS.. I should have known lol. Conclusion: I figure the mystery of how studios in the 70s must have done so well with “inferior” speakers.. since they used a mic w/VU meter while sweeping around a constant tone generator. And since a VU meter approximates the ears “avg” of hearing, it probably felt more flat than some of the things that measure better today? And so it opens the whole area of “what is flat?”.
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Jan 16, 2023 18:27:04 GMT -6
Think I have to start by asking my favorite rhetorical question about monitors... which is, why is it that if every manufacturer & their marketing department claims their speakers "are flat" - why do they all sound so damn different? Can someone answer this? I've always wondered about this too. Well by definition rhetorical questions don't really have answers... so no. Not sure anyone can give a precise answer because the question itself is more of a statement then an actual question... (42) But more or less there are indeed 100 different variables and if each one is a 1% difference, well... after a while that's going to add up to a 15 or 20% overall difference right? Flat - and I'm sure we could debate what "flat" is - but generally like ericn said we measure the +/- and we're not all using the same tolerances. Like someone could state their monitors are flat +/- 3dB which overall is a 6dB variance top to bottom. Another builder with a tighter tolerance might specify 3dB overall meaning its only 1.5dB in each direction. And then flat to what point? Are they stating 90Hz on the bottom end or 35Hz? Then right, differences in crossovers... driver design & tolerances... overall intention of the design. Big speaker little speaker blah blah blee blee. Think of it like Jedi mind tricks for marketing & specs... its all kinda BS that we need to peel away.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2023 18:31:13 GMT -6
SCM 50’s are only $17,500 a pair (not each!) which after reading your $35K quote makes them an absolute bargain Wait, what now? The ex-demo pair I tried were offered to me at $12.5K a pair. Get a load of this, there's a pair of SCM110A SL PRO's for sale for not much more..
That's a whopping $4.8K off the usual price before we've even begun. If they weren't the speaker equivalent of a boat I'd be rather interested for that price..
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Jan 16, 2023 18:32:30 GMT -6
Can someone answer this? I've always wondered about this too. Well by definition rhetorical questions don't really have answers... so no. Not sure anyone can give a precise answer because the question itself is more of a statement then an actual question... (42) But more or less there are indeed 100 different variables and if each one is a 1% difference, well... after a while that's going to add up to a 15 or 20% overall difference right? Flat - and I'm sure we could debate what "flat" is - but generally like ericn said we measure the +/- and we're not all using the same tolerances. Like someone could state their monitors are flat +/- 3dB which overall is a 6dB variance top to bottom. Another builder with a tighter tolerance might specify 3dB overall meaning its only 1.5dB in each direction. And then flat to what point? Are they stating 90Hz on the bottom end or 35Hz? Then right, differences in crossovers... driver design & tolerances... overall intention of the design. Big speaker little speaker blah blah blee blee. Think of it like Jedi mind tricks for marketing & specs... its all kinda BS that we need to peel away. J we also all forgot a big factor are you really listening on axis? In demo situations this can be hard to confirm. One thing I have also found to at times make things a bit more clear is to use the Frq anylizer app on my phone to confirm what I am hearing, especially at extremes and around the x-over.
|
|