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Post by carymiller on Jan 6, 2023 22:53:23 GMT -6
Now that I have a new workstation desk (from AZ Workstations)...I'm thinking about what gear I want to save for this year.
I'm wondering if a Flock Audio Patch might be the best move in the long run. Minimal Rack space, super ergonomic.
Anyone have any experience with one? I was doing a mock Patch Bay diagram with it, and I got things down to one TRS Bay, one XLR Bay, and the Flock (really minimal wiring).
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 7, 2023 3:31:54 GMT -6
Is it software based?
That would be my area of concern, who are Flock?
Even SSL and Neve are pretty cr*p at supporting expensive kit- and they're major established manufacturers!
As least with the Wes Audio digitally controlled gear there are controls on the front
so they can definitely work into the future even if the software gets dropped for any reason.
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Post by carymiller on Jan 7, 2023 4:07:04 GMT -6
Is it software based? That would be my area of concern, who are Flock? Even SSL and Neve are pretty cr*p at supporting expensive kit- and they're major established manufacturers! As least with the Wes Audio digitally controlled gear there are controls on the front so they can definitely work into the future even if the software gets dropped for any reason. It's an analog signal path that's digitally controlled. No idea about Flock's history, but I could maybe call them up and ask, or ask a few dealer friends I have about them. It's a pricey solution. Almost $3,000 for the 32IN/32OUT unit. But I could swap to DSUBS for almost everything in my studio which would be neat/clean. However, it's the workflow I'm attracted to. Anything to cut down on time spent on anything not being creative. But valid concerns for sure (noted). Also, SSL support is crap right now? We truly live in the worst timeline.  |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 7, 2023 5:50:48 GMT -6
SSL …. Ask any Nucleus 1 or Duende owners/ ex-users how they feel about “SSL Support” (said using George Carlin voice  In contrast I have RME interfaces that are 16 years old and are supported with their latest drivers !! So it can be done when a company has the right attitude and commitment. RME is a huge company, Flock is a boutique company. Boutique traditional electronics is one thing - boutique software would make me think twice but not necessarily put me off completely. For example I’d be willing to take a chance on Wes Audios Titan rack/module digitally controlled system. |
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Post by carymiller on Jan 7, 2023 11:42:22 GMT -6
SSL …. Ask any Nucleus 1 or Duende owners/ ex-users how they feel about “SSL Support” (said using George Carlin voice In contrast I have RME interfaces that are 16 years old and are supported with their latest drivers !! So it can be done when a company has the right attitude and commitment. RME is a huge company, Flock is a boutique company. Boutique traditional electronics is one thing - boutique software would make me think twice but not necessarily put me off completely. For example I’d be willing to take a chance on Wes Audios Titan rack/module digitally controlled system. What's got me going down this path is the Wes Audio stuff actually. I want to get two Titan racks for my new desk (I've been playing around with a patch bay design). I watched a couple Youtube videos on the Flock Patch and it's been around for at least 4 years...that's what made me think it's potentially viable. Also I hear you on RME. I had a Fireface 800 that lasted from 2006 to 2016ish (when I replaced it with my Prism). Here's a link to look at the features of the FLOCK PATCH. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 7, 2023 12:12:51 GMT -6
The biggest issue other than long time software support is this: how long before you out grow the 32x 32 matrix? You’re not going to be able to expand the Flock. Good old analog patchbays, no software no expansion limits.
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Post by carymiller on Jan 7, 2023 12:33:04 GMT -6
The biggest issue other than long time software support is this: how long before you out grow the 32x 32 matrix? You’re not going to be able to expand the Flock. Good old analog patchbays, no software no expansion limits. True! But I'm pretty sure two of these unit's max would be enough for whatever rig I'd want to make, and one to start would be good for the year. This new rig is going to be small at first. I don't have a studio proper for drums (so I'll be cutting drums at Full Well Studios which is owned by my friend Mike Bolenbach). This will be more for vocals/guitars/keys and mixing and mastering. But I might just stick with my TRS bays, it depends on the final budget I put together. |
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Post by ericn on Jan 7, 2023 13:04:33 GMT -6
The biggest issue other than long time software support is this: how long before you out grow the 32x 32 matrix? You’re not going to be able to expand the Flock. Good old analog patchbays, no software no expansion limits. True! But I'm pretty sure two of these unit's max would be enough for whatever rig I'd want to make, and one to start would be good for the year. This new rig is going to be small at first. I don't have a studio proper for drums (so I'll be cutting drums at Full Well Studios which is owned by my friend Mike Bolenbach). This will be more for vocals/guitars/keys and mixing and mastering. But I might just stick with my TRS bays, it depends on the final budget I put together. Yeah just remember 2 means 2 distinct 32x 32 matrix you can’t really cross from one to the other, most don’t understand this concept. |
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Post by carymiller on Jan 7, 2023 14:03:15 GMT -6
True! But I'm pretty sure two of these unit's max would be enough for whatever rig I'd want to make, and one to start would be good for the year. This new rig is going to be small at first. I don't have a studio proper for drums (so I'll be cutting drums at Full Well Studios which is owned by my friend Mike Bolenbach). This will be more for vocals/guitars/keys and mixing and mastering. But I might just stick with my TRS bays, it depends on the final budget I put together. Yeah just remember 2 means 2 distinct 32x 32 matrix you can’t really cross from one to the other, most don’t understand this concept. I believe they designed these so multiple matrixes can be chained. But it's still pricey. While getting another Samson Bay is only $122. (I do think I'd need at least one more either way). I've been using two Samson Bay's for my rig because of the normal switches for a couple years now. Great product, inexpensive, etc. I just think the workflow of this device is kind of genius. |
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Post by ericn on Jan 7, 2023 16:00:40 GMT -6
Yeah just remember 2 means 2 distinct 32x 32 matrix you can’t really cross from one to the other, most don’t understand this concept. I believe they designed these so multiple matrixes can be chained. But it's still pricey. While getting another Samson Bay is only $122. (I do think I'd need at least one more either way). I've been using two Samson Bay's for my rig because of the normal switches for a couple years now. Great product, inexpensive, etc. I just think the workflow of this device is kind of genius. There idea of expansion is deceptive, all they show is you can “expand” via adding more 32x32 matrixes not to a 64x64 if it is all analog you could expand it a bit and offer a limited cross between matrixes for instance you could reduce it to 2 24x24 and have 8x8 between the 2 boxes, but again compared to a pair of ADC TT bays I can patch anything anywhere. For a small set up pretty cool, but for a medium to large setup I would need a couple of ADC TT and the Flock so I could cleanly do the majority of my routing through the flock and still access everything via TT, but then I’m the guy who has TT blocks on the live amp racks so I never have to dig through “ black squid” as a clients kid calls it. |
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Post by seawell on Jan 7, 2023 16:20:57 GMT -6
I've almost bought one of these multiple times over the past couple of years. Being such a small company and it being so software dependent is a great point that has been raised. I guess the one thing that makes me feel better about it is that all they make are patch units so hopefully they wouldn't be spread too thin.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 7, 2023 23:34:06 GMT -6
I have two of the x64's running and ericn nailed a good point which is that any chaining of the units requires you to run DSubs from one to the other, gobbling up I/O. I've got 8 I/O sitting unused on my second one because there's no way to send 16 back and forth between units without losing I/O on the first, which means getting a third unit. Yes, I could still use the open I/O on the second unit but then you're picking and choosing which 8 out of 16 to come and go. The Flock Patch is great until you start trying to incorporate enough gear to get you into multiple units and then I think something like the CB Electronics XPatch would be a better choice. Like the 96 point unit if you're in that kinda I/O count. That said, I appreciate being able to lay out three or four compressors on a vocal and pick and choose the best combo or none at all. That's where the Flock has really been valuable in what we do. As I said in another post on another thread, I never would have realized how cool the Moog Ladder can be on snare for certain songs, etc. YMMV |
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Post by ericn on Jan 8, 2023 10:07:07 GMT -6
I have two of the x64's running and ericn nailed a good point which is that any chaining of the units requires you to run DSubs from one to the other, gobbling up I/O. I've got 8 I/O sitting unused on my second one because there's no way to send 16 back and forth between units without losing I/O on the first, which means getting a third unit. Yes, I could still use the open I/O on the second unit but then you're picking and choosing which 8 out of 16 to come and go. The Flock Patch is great until you start trying to incorporate enough gear to get you into multiple units and then I think something like the CB Electronics XPatch would be a better choice. Like the 96 point unit if you're in that kinda I/O count. That said, I appreciate being able to lay out three or four compressors on a vocal and pick and choose the best combo or none at all. That's where the Flock has really been valuable in what we do. As I said in another post on another thread, I never would have realized how cool the Moog Ladder can be on snare for certain songs, etc. YMMV Yeah until you have actually worked with analog matrixies you don’t see the limitations when expanding, and until you work next to guys building them you don’t understand the difficulties and expense of expansion! Like I said if you know your going to stay within the limits of I/O and can live with the possibilities of an orphan control system. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 11, 2023 17:37:17 GMT -6
Should mention that with the two units and channel paths setup like this, while experimenting putting the H2 0011's first in line or last in line when moving the cells I'm getting loud pops. So I've been only moving those when paused. I'm not sure if the multiple thing is the culprit but that's the first time I've had issues. Edit: corrected the model number  |
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Post by ericn on Jan 11, 2023 18:28:59 GMT -6
Should mention that with the two units and channel paths setup like this, while experimenting putting the H2 002's first in line or last in line when moving the cells I'm getting loud pops. So I've been only moving those when paused. I'm not sure if the multiple thing is the culprit but that's the first time I've had issues. I would give the guys at Flock a shout and see if there is a solution. |
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