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Post by drumsound on Jan 3, 2023 16:54:03 GMT -6
Yeah and the contents of the rooms and components used in speaker models change all the time. soffit mount stuff or architectural features around a specific pair of towers or floorstanders seems like a bit of a waste to me. What is a waste of time is soffits bouncing off a desk, they spend god knows how much on all this equipment and don't even take into account the absolute basics of phsyics (yes Eric I hear you loud and clear). Okay so some of them lucked out but it's not a game of roulette I like to play. When I did my audio engineering degree this was like first month stuff, I was tearing apart an SSL 9K a couple of weeks after..
I've had 21 years in technical audio service, benchmark DAC / ADC design, audio programming, city wide PBX systems / switches, audio over IP and I've done some studio stuff in the mean time. I'm absolutely unsure how anyone who understands the sheer basics of all of this would make these mistakes. No, as an audio fidelity fan I don't necessarily agree that what some of these classic rooms created is something to be admired in terms of sonics, however that doesn't always have much bearing on the popularity of songs.
Y'know it's a case of whatever, they did well and were successful so good on them. For those who are striving for the next level though, get your monitors and room sorted it'll certainly do you no harm.
I always thought the set up at The Fidelitorium was pretty cool. There are lower 'soffits' that I think are treated and isolated for large main cabinets. They have screens that I believe can be taken off. You can see them on either side of the window in the linked picture. |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 3, 2023 16:55:26 GMT -6
I recently watched a friend go through a studio design process. What came back was very 'clean room / minimal equipment' and in my view completely failed to take into account what gear the room would actually be stuffed with. If was doing this I'd have a pretty solid idea of the gear footprint as part of the design obstacles.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 3, 2023 17:08:08 GMT -6
Comb filtering because of different phase and frequency response would be a much bigger deal if you used both at once. Which, of course, is kinda absurd, at least. If fact,most of the objections I've seen here have the same, or similar, objection - who the hell would be crazty enough to use both sets at the same time? You would be surprised! Some people seam to like it. In this day in age I am shocked how few people will pull out their phone, download a basic RTA and measure their monitors. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 3, 2023 17:11:57 GMT -6
Yeah, historically horn loaded mains mounted in the ceiling corners pointing down at a shallow back wall lined with reflective rack gear! Run at room swamping node exciting volcanic levels! Everyone's impressed but nobody can hear shit! The people who've worked there have learned how to hear through and around it. It ain't so precious. Yes and even in those “purpose built rooms” around a pair of mains, whatever small speakers that have been put on the bridge and pointed towards the engineer tend to have way more real world info what has been proven to work across rooms and engineer is usually not the mega money mains or the complex crossover ruler flat nearfields, perfect dispersion speakers but speakers that are totally ruthless and you can still buy them from about 200 for the acidic little JBLs (no sheen like the ones with the “too nice” JBL made drivers) to thousands for less resonant, more detailed, higher headroom pairs. Dan I'm really loving my Pioneer RM-05's for this. They are not friendly at all. But very fatiguing. Couldn't even do an hour on those things without a break. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 3, 2023 17:15:15 GMT -6
Here's a picture of one of my favorite producers J LLoyd's studio. Take it for what it's worth. If you're a purist, yes it will effect the sound somewhat. But there's nothing wrong with this guys mixes... at all. Whatever works for you.  To me, this is the real insight: forget about perfection, know your talent, room and gear:,then use your experience and judgement, to serve the song, to the best of your abilities. Call me crazy, but I’d like to hear, a not perfect Steely Dan album: go figure ?  Excellent point. I don't even LIKE "perfect" music or mixes. So why try to make them? And the few clients that actually me do so because they like my musical perspective. I literally told a dude this weekend "if you want me to grid out your kick and bass parts, I'm not your guy." He goes... "but you would do that if I asked cuz I'm the client, right?" "No, I'd tell you to find another producer to suck the life out of your music." I got that gig by the way! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 3, 2023 17:15:59 GMT -6
Yes and even in those “purpose built rooms” around a pair of mains, whatever small speakers that have been put on the bridge and pointed towards the engineer tend to have way more real world info what has been proven to work across rooms and engineer is usually not the mega money mains or the complex crossover ruler flat nearfields, perfect dispersion speakers but speakers that are totally ruthless and you can still buy them from about 200 for the acidic little JBLs (no sheen like the ones with the “too nice” JBL made drivers) to thousands for less resonant, more detailed, higher headroom pairs. Dan I'm really loving my Pioneer RM-05's for this. They are not friendly at all. But very fatiguing. Couldn't even do an hour on those things without a break. That would be the Legacy of TAD drivers, and my understanding is the TAD driver guys had a lot of influence. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 3, 2023 17:19:37 GMT -6
I'm really loving my Pioneer RM-05's for this. They are not friendly at all. But very fatiguing. Couldn't even do an hour on those things without a break. That would be the Legacy of TAD drivers, and my understanding is the TAD driver guys had a lot of influence. Yeah, the Pioneer is actually a cool little monitor. Super useful. But definitely not one you would ever switch on with a client in the room! |
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 3, 2023 17:32:16 GMT -6
Here's a picture of one of my favorite producers J LLoyd's studio. Take it for what it's worth. If you're a purist, yes it will effect the sound somewhat. But there's nothing wrong with this guys mixes... at all. Whatever works for you. To me, this is the real insight: forget about perfection, know your talent, room and gear:,then use your experience and judgement, to serve the song, to the best of your abilities. Call me crazy, but I’d like to hear, a not perfect Steely Dan album: go figure ? A "not perfect" Steey Dan? Really? The Standard releasesas are boring enopugh! |
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Post by RealNoob on Jan 3, 2023 18:23:38 GMT -6
Summing up several comments...
Stacking isn't ideal but sometimes, it is the best option for a room. If it works, it works but isn't a best practice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2023 18:26:28 GMT -6
Summing up several comments... If it works, it works but isn't a best practice. I think you've just summed up music production as a whole. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2023 18:33:14 GMT -6
Steely Dan deleted a whole album they had finished as apparently wasn’t up to their sonic standards.
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Post by teejay on Jan 3, 2023 20:38:20 GMT -6
So this is bad?  I only run one pair at a time. Auralex monitor pads between them.  |
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Post by M57 on Jan 3, 2023 20:51:40 GMT -6
So this is bad? I only run one pair at a time. Auralex monitor pads between them. My nearfields only sound right when their tweeters fire directly at my ears, not above or below. The sweet spot is tiny. I would figure out a way to angle yours - probably both, but most likely the bottom pair. Whatever solution you find might even decouple them a bit more and improve things. |
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Post by teejay on Jan 3, 2023 22:01:24 GMT -6
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 3, 2023 22:23:35 GMT -6
So this is bad? I only run one pair at a time. Auralex monitor pads between them. Not great, but here is the thing even if you were to put them side by side with the little bit of room you have your still going to have the effects of a larger baffle. You might have a more balanced sound. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Jan 4, 2023 6:38:41 GMT -6
I like the California Raisins back there dancing on the absorption.
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Post by jaba on Jan 4, 2023 9:38:56 GMT -6
Any control/mix room is going to have a list of compromises. As long as you have at least one pair of monitors that show you a fairly uncolored version of your audio you can probably get away a lot.
Some people get inspired more by "vibe" and manage killer mixes in way less than ideal spaces where others need to Hear. Every. Single. Thing. to do their best work.
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Post by teejay on Jan 4, 2023 9:55:36 GMT -6
I like the California Raisins back there dancing on the absorption. Many well-timed trips to Hardee’s back in the day for a Cinnamon Raisin Biscuit + $0.99 each to procure those bad boys. And I'm not a big fan of eating raisins.  |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 4, 2023 11:27:33 GMT -6
Any control/mix room is going to have a list of compromises. As long as you have at least one pair of monitors that show you a fairly uncolored version of your audio you can probably get away a lot. Some people get inspired more by "vibe" and manage killer mixes in way less than ideal spaces where others need to Hear. Every. Single. Thing. to do their best work. You’re absolutely right every room is a series of compromises, but speaker position is probably the least costly compromise one can easily correct. In many rooms real estate can become an expensive issue, but in General choice of speakers this can be addressed. I don’t think in the modern era many realize that the mains were always custom to deal with the room. |
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I only run one pair at a time. Auralex monitor pads between them.
