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Post by octalsocket on Jan 2, 2023 12:48:33 GMT -6
The vast majority of audio products made are being bought by hobbyists LARPing their way back to 1973.
Most people are more than happy to recreate the past, myself included, some of the time.
The future (in my case) is not going to come from a guy in his mid 50’s.
We really seem to have most of the tools we need. Audio recording is a fairly mature field.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 2, 2023 12:51:49 GMT -6
Roland V Drums triggering Toontrack SDX …. all emulations of traditional instruments. So I don’t get your point …. it just re enforces my point - they need to keep going and finish what they’ve started :-) Just a joke because you said you’re old school. Edrums are very much a modern way of doing things. Obviously, I’m doing the same, so don’t take it as a knock on you. Got it  Well, I'm old school with neighbours :-) Oh how I'd love to go back to real drums, real piano's .... even real conga's. What can you do. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 2, 2023 12:56:03 GMT -6
I have ideas for a few “no analog equivalent” plugins that haven’t been done. I’ve had these ideas for almost 15 years and still hasn’t been made. Does anyone know how to make a plugin and can direct me the best way to learn to make one? Man I quit sharing ideas for plugins years ago, for instance I shared 2 ideas that every guy I know who does transfers / archives would kill for based on a very obscure analog piece. The idea is this: first it would need a special analog interface that would take the straight output of tape heads and phono level with no EQ in the analog domain, just impedance match and level. Then specifically for phone you can select the curve from the various standards that pre date RIAA curves LF and HF separately have a variable offset for each and a trim then do the same for tape. Yes it’s specialized as hell, but do you have any idea what the guys who would use it would pay fro the time savings? None of the mainstream plugin vendors could wrap their heads around it. I even had the guys from The UW film archives, one of the world’s largest trying to convince the guys at Sonic Foundry they could own the transfer / Archive market with such a dedicated plugin. |
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Post by christopher on Jan 2, 2023 13:03:20 GMT -6
Yeah I won’t be surprised when some top brand packages your idea into a $10k mastering product lol
I think totally worth it for the re-re-release of the Beatles in a few years.. “we found the virgin backups” 😜
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Post by chessparov on Jan 2, 2023 14:01:31 GMT -6
For those like me, where Recording is primarily a Pastime... Plugs are awesome (well generally) Am having a blast playing with my new UADx Pure Plate and LA2A Plugs. If I made significant income from Recording, then definitely Hybrid for me. Inclination being Hardware for heavy sonic lifting. (Like Silver Bullet + Audioscape) Plugs usually for Mixing refinement. I do feel a little snobby, not being impressed enough (yet) with the Slate/Townsend virtual mic emulations! Chris |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 2, 2023 14:27:38 GMT -6
I do feel a little snobby, not being impressed enough (yet) with the Slate/Townsend virtual mic emulations! Chris Oh, don’t feel snobby about that, Chris. I still remember when ragan did his “3U mics vs Slate mic” comparisons a few years back, and at least IMO the 3U mics were the clear winner. I was actually surprised at how much better the 3U mics were, while being less expensive. Better capsule, I’m assuming. |
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Post by chessparov on Jan 2, 2023 14:59:06 GMT -6
Thanks! I know it's somewhat different but... For a few weeks, I aided the development of the Novag chess program, many years ago. After the first 19 games, I got bored and allowed a draw in the 20th! Nowadays Magnus Carlson himself wouldn't score one win in a hundred games, versus a super computer chess program like Stockfish or Komodo. Well it wasn't overnight! Chris |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 2, 2023 15:39:49 GMT -6
Jcoutou, why make the extra step to create an Aux track if a mix knob does the same thing? I know it can be done that way, but I prefer not to clog up my DAW's mixer with more Aux tracks than I need.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 2, 2023 15:57:27 GMT -6
Jcoutou, why make the extra step to create an Aux track if a mix knob does the same thing? I know it can be done that way, but I prefer not to clog up my DAW's mixer with more Aux tracks than I need. Well, if you have more than one instrument that you want to have the effect on it, it's by far the easiest way, rather than having one on each track. I usually go with the Aux route, unless it's a particular effect that's only going on one instrument. In the Dimension-D Chorus example, it's possible it would only go on one electric guitar. In that case, I might just put it on the EG track. But if I also want a touch of it on other tracks, I would absolutely use an Aux. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 2, 2023 16:03:06 GMT -6
Jcoutou, why make the extra step to create an Aux track if a mix knob does the same thing? I know it can be done that way, but I prefer not to clog up my DAW's mixer with more Aux tracks than I need. I’d rather have an aux that I can send other tracks to. Shoot the backing vox over. Or whatever. That way you’re only using a single instance of the plug, rather than 1 for each track. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 2, 2023 16:03:47 GMT -6
Jcoutou, why make the extra step to create an Aux track if a mix knob does the same thing? I know it can be done that way, but I prefer not to clog up my DAW's mixer with more Aux tracks than I need. Well, if you have more than one instrument that you want to have the effect on it, it's by far the easiest way, rather than having one on each track. I usually go with the Aux route, unless it's a particular effect that's only going on one instrument. In the Dimension-D Chorus example, it's possible it would only go on one electric guitar. In that case, I might just put it on the EG track. But if I also want a touch of it on other tracks, I would absolutely use an Aux. Beet me to it! 😂😂 |
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Post by drumsound on Jan 2, 2023 16:16:02 GMT -6
Just a joke because you said you’re old school. Edrums are very much a modern way of doing things. Obviously, I’m doing the same, so don’t take it as a knock on you. Got it Well, I'm old school with neighbours :-) Oh how I'd love to go back to real drums, real piano's .... even real conga's. What can you do. I can cover drums and congas for you if you need. I have ideas for a few “no analog equivalent” plugins that haven’t been done. I’ve had these ideas for almost 15 years and still hasn’t been made. Does anyone know how to make a plugin and can direct me the best way to learn to make one? Man I quit sharing ideas for plugins years ago, for instance I shared 2 ideas that every guy I know who does transfers / archives would kill for based on a very obscure analog piece. The idea is this: first it would need a special analog interface that would take the straight output of tape heads and phono level with no EQ in the analog domain, just impedance match and level. Then specifically for phone you can select the curve from the various standards that pre date RIAA curves LF and HF separately have a variable offset for each and a trim then do the same for tape. Yes it’s specialized as hell, but do you have any idea what the guys who would use it would pay fro the time savings? None of the mainstream plugin vendors could wrap their heads around it. I even had the guys from The UW film archives, one of the world’s largest trying to convince the guys at Sonic Foundry they could own the transfer / Archive market with such a dedicated plugin. RIP Sonic Foundry. I had a great rep (who is at one of the Starrin branches now) and had a ton of fun with ACID and even did a breif bets for Vegas. And CD Architect was a fantastic tool. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 2, 2023 17:39:20 GMT -6
The vast majority of audio products made are being bought by hobbyists LARPing their way back to 1973. This is the best post I've seen in a long time! Haha. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 2, 2023 22:34:19 GMT -6
I never use more than one instrument with a Dimension D plug-in. If I did that would limit all the tracks being sent to it to the same setting. I can't imagine using it for multiple instruments, but if you guys do it, I'm sure it must work OK.
I've only used it for electric guitars, maybe once in a blue moon on a vocal.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 2, 2023 23:05:33 GMT -6
Case in point: UAD. Their Dimension D emulates the original. I also have Sound Toys version of the same chorus. The Sound Toys version has a mix knob not on the original. Guess which on I use and which one I never use. I need the mix feature every time and it only takes a couple of seconds to dial in just the right amount. UAD refuses to add such a feature, despite its obvious advantages. All in the name of adhering to the original design? This makes no sense at all. It can be modeled exactly the same as the original AND have a mix knob. I have the soundtoys and don’t use the mix knob at all. Put it on an aux and use the send level as a mix knob. That’s the way it was done with the hardware. Just automated the PhaseMistress mix knob on a flanger part the last couple of days. With that particular plug with the part it makes it go from lingering around here and there to sweeping hell-yes. I get what you're saying but doesn't mean there's not more than one way to get results. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 3, 2023 6:12:13 GMT -6
I never use more than one instrument with a Dimension D plug-in. If I did that would limit all the tracks being sent to it to the same setting. I can't imagine using it for multiple instruments, but if you guys do it, I'm sure it must work OK. I've only used it for electric guitars, maybe once in a blue moon on a vocal. One reason you might wish to insert you Dimension D plugin in a dedicated FX channel and send to it via a channel aux send (even if it's only one channel send) is so that you can add further processing to the output of the Dimension D. I often use HPF filters after FX then there's EQ, gating, compression, expansion, ducking, panning, Middle and Side level changes .... having an FX in a dedicated FX channel opens up a new world of creative mixing. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 3, 2023 13:01:06 GMT -6
That makes sense if you want to try that. I tend to keep things bone simple.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 3, 2023 13:34:43 GMT -6
I'm mainly Pre-Set in my ways.
Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 3, 2023 15:27:01 GMT -6
Back in the days of Sound Designer II and the most primitive version of Digidesign ProTools, plug-ins were a sad affair. You had things like "Compressor", which made the Yamaha 02R's dynamics sound positively useable. But shortly thereafter, they began bundling 'software emulation' of hardware like the Focusrite Red compressor and EQ. And the race was on. By the time we turned on our computers on Jan 1, 2000, pleased to find that the portent of Y2K hadn't relegated our machines into dust, there was already a scratch for almost every vintage-tinged itch. Several iterations of the 1176, the LA2A, the this, the that, and the other thing had appeared on our 1024x768 20" monitors - complete with patinated edges and badly-responsive VU meters. It's now 22 years later and I think it's fair to say that approximating the vintage look, sound, and feel has been done. To death. For the great many, "just like" and "close enough" are a fair tradeoff for low cost, endless instances, granular control and automation, and no-brainer recall. What DSP is capable of goes so far beyond cloning a Neve 2254 or SolidStateLogic G-Comp for the hundredth time. And with it, it's time to start looking towards casting aside the simulated bakelite knobs and bulb backlighting. A plasma-like display of levels or spectrographic EQ response gives the user a much more tactile understanding of what's happening under the hood. We've recreated what made the past great. And creating the future doesn't mean we have to disown our forebears. Discuss. So tell me, do you mix with your eyes or with your ears? |
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Post by bchurch on Jan 4, 2023 6:53:49 GMT -6
Both. And I use my fingers and toes sometimes as well.
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Post by jaba on Jan 4, 2023 9:48:18 GMT -6
There's definitely some great new ideas in plug land, I just want things that do their thing without smearing sounds into a flat mess.
The DSP DSM multiband compressor whatever it is is a great new tool that doesn't (and can't, I'm assuming) existed as hardware. That new TDR vinyl lacquer plug is a great idea (haven't used it though). But I also grew up with 1176s and optos and Neves and would love to have truly great version of those ITB. Or something inspired by those tools, don't really care if they're exact.
I have no interest in new tools that are just AI or make you judge your balance with your eyes though I'm sure people will do killer work with those as well. I sometimes feel the new stuff is mostly uninspired, just new gadgets to sell that don't really offer a lot of overall usefulness, to me at least.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 4, 2023 10:10:21 GMT -6
That makes sense if you want to try that. I tend to keep things bone simple. 'bone simple' varies, for me it's usually having something on an aux. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 4, 2023 12:40:41 GMT -6
I include 4-6 Aux tracks in "bone simple", I just don't use an Aux as a side-chain. I might try it one day if I ever think I need to tweak the effect I want with other plug-ins, but I haven't needed to do that yet.
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Post by yewtreemagic on Jan 4, 2023 15:52:21 GMT -6
I have a very big soft spot for the developers who are taking chances and making creative tools. Freakshow Industries comes to mind. Their stuff is completely, utterly bent. Same here. Others that spring to mind include Audiothing, with their TheOrb (moving formants filter) and GongAmp (using a gong hung with chains as a reverb unit):  However, my favourite developer for novel plug-ins/instruments is Sonic Charge: The incredibly versatile Permut8 ( ), updated free on numerous occasions with new firmware featuring totally different DSP techniques). Microtonic (the best electronic drum machine in my collection, once again with numerous free updates. including a set of classic drum machine sets matched using AI techniques, and the ongoing Patternarium, which generates new kits/sequences online that can be voted up/down by users, directly copy and pasted into the VSTi itself, and which is currently on its 28th collection of sounds based on how popular sers voted previous ones - soniccharge.com/patternarium ) Vive la différence! Martin |
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Post by javamad on Jan 5, 2023 1:38:33 GMT -6
I’m a big UAD fan and those emulations do somehow make me feel (correctly or not) that I am working like they did when a lot of my favourite records were made.
I also have some BAE and pres that sound great even if they are not original Neves.
Recently got Surfer EQ though and I am blown away with how powerful a tool a pitch tracking EQ can be… so more of this please :-)
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