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Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 12, 2023 15:47:24 GMT -6
This delay was the result of advocacy by Reverb and other leading online marketplaces, who launched The Coalition for 1099-K Fairness last year. With your help, we spent 2022 advocating for Congress to raise the $600 reporting threshold. More than a thousand Reverb sellers shared their stories about the benefits of reselling used gear on Reverb—and those stories helped policymakers see how this reporting threshold disproportionately burdens casual sellers. While you’ll still need to provide your tax info if you reach $600 in sales in 2023, we’re hopeful that this delay is the first step toward a permanent solution. We’re continuing to advocate on behalf of the Reverb community and will keep you updated with the news and how you can help along the way. Thanks, The Reverb team Policymakers were so moved... they kicked the can for a year and will change nothing. Maybe Im too cynical |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 12, 2023 17:27:35 GMT -6
This delay was the result of advocacy by Reverb and other leading online marketplaces, who launched The Coalition for 1099-K Fairness last year. With your help, we spent 2022 advocating for Congress to raise the $600 reporting threshold. More than a thousand Reverb sellers shared their stories about the benefits of reselling used gear on Reverb—and those stories helped policymakers see how this reporting threshold disproportionately burdens casual sellers. While you’ll still need to provide your tax info if you reach $600 in sales in 2023, we’re hopeful that this delay is the first step toward a permanent solution. We’re continuing to advocate on behalf of the Reverb community and will keep you updated with the news and how you can help along the way. Thanks, The Reverb team Policymakers were so moved... they kicked the can for a year and will change nothing. Maybe Im too cynical I just assumed they were all taking bribes via PayPal 😁 Now the cynic in me wonders how many will take a trip to the Catman islands in the nest few months😎 |
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Post by svart on Jan 13, 2023 7:50:21 GMT -6
We all new it it was coming and the reason it went this way is we were all supposed to be good little boys and girls and self report, well we weren’t, myself included. So the government rewrote the rules, now is it a big deal ? Probably not if you kept good books, is it going to hurt, a bit. Should they be going after the bigger fish well yeah, but it’s cheaper to go after the little guys. An IRS employee did a study a few years ago concerning bank transfer amounts. What they found was that cash-business companies and individuals moved about 30-40% more money in and out of their accounts than they claimed in taxes. Cash business tends to be almost entirely lower income folks but this lost tax revenue is in the range of tens-to-hundreds of billions, possibly low trillions according to Yellen. So as usual, the government sold it as "going after the rich" but 600$ puts it right in the ballpark of the low-income cash-only citizen's transactions based on that report. So yes, it IS a big deal because it's sold as a LIE and it's going to further hurt poor people who needed that cash. Taxation IS theft when those in power can simply take more from you because they think they're not getting enough. "Give us more protection money to protect you from what we'll do to you if you don't pay your protection money" - The Mafia "Give us more tax money to protect you from what we'll do to you if you don't pay your tax money" - The Government |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 13, 2023 8:48:36 GMT -6
We all new it it was coming and the reason it went this way is we were all supposed to be good little boys and girls and self report, well we weren’t, myself included. So the government rewrote the rules, now is it a big deal ? Probably not if you kept good books, is it going to hurt, a bit. Should they be going after the bigger fish well yeah, but it’s cheaper to go after the little guys. An IRS employee did a study a few years ago concerning bank transfer amounts. What they found was that cash-business companies and individuals moved about 30-40% more money in and out of their accounts than they claimed in taxes. Cash business tends to be almost entirely lower income folks but this lost tax revenue is in the range of tens-to-hundreds of billions, possibly low trillions according to Yellen. So as usual, the government sold it as "going after the rich" but 600$ puts it right in the ballpark of the low-income cash-only citizen's transactions based on that report. So yes, it IS a big deal because it's sold as a LIE and it's going to further hurt poor people who needed that cash. Taxation IS theft when those in power can simply take more from you because they think they're not getting enough. "Give us more protection money to protect you from what we'll do to you if you don't pay your protection money" - The Mafia "Give us more tax money to protect you from what we'll do to you if you don't pay your tax money" - The Government No $599 has been the reporting standard since at least 1990, nothing to see here nothing new other than who they are requiring to file them. Those of us who lived in the world of live performance have been dealing with for years, those who have had supplemental compensation from manufacturers have delt with it. Hell in 1997 1/3 my income was 1099’s. They may have done a study but the threshold was set and it really is about leveling the playing field for those of us who have had to deal with it . Is it a pain, yes but what any study found just like with the collection on out of state sales tax on internet/ mail order YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE SELF REPORTING. I’ll admit I didn’t but anyone who knew the rules and knew anyone with the IRS saw it coming years ago. Because again $599 or more from a source you report it. Should they be going after the big guys ? Absolutely, but the big guys can afford to fight it, everyone at the IRS knows the best way to get a great private sector job is to do a good job going after a big fish, but it’s hardly ever successful because the big fish’s accountant or lawyer or another firm hires the IRS guys at 2-3 times what the IRS pays and it slows down the process. I spent 6 years looking out my window at the Midwest IRS offices, believe me I ate drank and partied with these guys especially when they got the good gigs. |
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Post by seawell on Jan 13, 2023 9:38:33 GMT -6
An IRS employee did a study a few years ago concerning bank transfer amounts. What they found was that cash-business companies and individuals moved about 30-40% more money in and out of their accounts than they claimed in taxes. Cash business tends to be almost entirely lower income folks but this lost tax revenue is in the range of tens-to-hundreds of billions, possibly low trillions according to Yellen. So as usual, the government sold it as "going after the rich" but 600$ puts it right in the ballpark of the low-income cash-only citizen's transactions based on that report. So yes, it IS a big deal because it's sold as a LIE and it's going to further hurt poor people who needed that cash. Taxation IS theft when those in power can simply take more from you because they think they're not getting enough. "Give us more protection money to protect you from what we'll do to you if you don't pay your protection money" - The Mafia "Give us more tax money to protect you from what we'll do to you if you don't pay your tax money" - The Government No $599 has been the reporting standard since at least 1990, nothing to see here nothing new other than who they are requiring to file them. Those of us who lived in the world of live performance have been dealing with for years, those who have had supplemental compensation from manufacturers have delt with it. Hell in 1997 1/3 my income was 1099’s. They may have done a study but the threshold was set and it really is about leveling the playing field for those of us who have had to deal with it . Is it a pain, yes but what any study found just like with the collection on out of state sales tax on internet/ mail order YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE SELF REPORTING. I’ll admit I didn’t but anyone who knew the rules and knew anyone with the IRS saw it coming years ago. Because again $599 or more from a source you report it. Should they be going after the big guys ? Absolutely, but the big guys can afford to fight it, everyone at the IRS knows the best way to get a great private sector job is to do a good job going after a big fish, but it’s hardly ever successful because the big fish’s accountant or lawyer or another firm hires the IRS guys at 2-3 times what the IRS pays and it slows down the process. I spent 6 years looking out my window at the Midwest IRS offices, believe me I ate drank and partied with these guys especially when they got the good gigs. Hey Eric, what is the $20,000 limit Reverb mentioned in their email? “ We’re happy to share that the IRS announced a one-year delay of the federal $600 tax reporting threshold. This means that you will only receive a Form 1099-K for 2022 sales if you: Exceeded the previous federal threshold of $20,000 in sales and 200 transactions, or Live in a state with a lower reporting threshold” Is that specifically to selling used gear as opposed to getting paid $600 to play a gig for example? I know for years as an indie label/publisher I had to produce a 1099 for anyone that I paid over $600 in royalties but maybe the new policy extends further to people selling used items? I don’t know, I have for 10+ years done the above mentioned but something has changed for sure. |
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cj
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Post by cj on Jan 13, 2023 10:25:55 GMT -6
Hey Eric, what is the $20,000 limit Reverb mentioned in their email? “ We’re happy to share that the IRS announced a one-year delay of the federal $600 tax reporting threshold. This means that you will only receive a Form 1099-K for 2022 sales if you: Exceeded the previous federal threshold of $20,000 in sales and 200 transactions, or Live in a state with a lower reporting threshold” Is that specifically to selling used gear as opposed to getting paid $600 to play a gig for example? I know for years as an indie label/publisher I had to produce a 1099 for anyone that I paid over $600 in royalties but maybe the new policy extends further to people selling used items? I don’t know, I have for 10+ years done the above mentioned but something has changed for sure.
The $20,000 mentioned in Reverb's statement only applies to the trigger point at which they send out a 1099K.
The $600 limit applies to the trigger point that a 1099MISC is sent out. They are two different forms and two different set of rules.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 13, 2023 10:41:15 GMT -6
Of note -
if I file my own taxes, there's no place for me to report any 1099's I receive. The Fed gets them, I get them, it's on me to report the associated income. Nothing for me to do with the paper.
if my accountant is filing, they DO have a place to list 1099's, and he wants that info.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 13, 2023 11:37:07 GMT -6
Of note - if I file my own taxes, there's no place for me to report any 1099's I receive. The Fed gets them, I get them, it's on me to report the associated income. Nothing for me to do with the paper. if my accountant is filing, they DO have a place to list 1099's, and he wants that info. If you file yourself with TurboTax, there IS a place where TT asks you to list the 1099s you've received. I hate Intuit with a passion, but I still use TT almost every year. Grrrrrr.
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Post by seawell on Jan 13, 2023 13:51:12 GMT -6
Hey Eric, what is the $20,000 limit Reverb mentioned in their email? “ We’re happy to share that the IRS announced a one-year delay of the federal $600 tax reporting threshold. This means that you will only receive a Form 1099-K for 2022 sales if you: Exceeded the previous federal threshold of $20,000 in sales and 200 transactions, or Live in a state with a lower reporting threshold” Is that specifically to selling used gear as opposed to getting paid $600 to play a gig for example? I know for years as an indie label/publisher I had to produce a 1099 for anyone that I paid over $600 in royalties but maybe the new policy extends further to people selling used items? I don’t know, I have for 10+ years done the above mentioned but something has changed for sure.
The $20,000 mentioned in Reverb's statement only applies to the trigger point at which they send out a 1099K.
The $600 limit applies to the trigger point that a 1099MISC is sent out. They are two different forms and two different set of rules.
Thanks for the info! So, if you sold more than $600 of used gear in the past, you were not required to report that? In other words I don’t think anyone’s arguing that you had to report $600 of income from something work related but income from a used item is where I think some people are thinking it’s going too far. Especially considering you already paid taxes on it when you bought it and 99.9% you’re selling for less that what you bought it. Do you only pay if it appreciated and you made a profit? It’s just frustrating/confusing when for well over a year we’re getting all these emails from PayPal, Venmo, Reverb about something and then other people are saying you were always supposed to do it like nothing has changed. Like I said in a previous post, I’ve always self reported 1099 forms from BMI, etc.. and have generated them for artists I paid above $600, but not for selling used gear. At least we’re punting it another year I guess. |
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Post by ab101 on Jan 13, 2023 13:58:52 GMT -6
I do not like giving legal advice on forums, but I think this is obvious enough. If you have income, you have to report it. There is no dollar exemption from your own reporting (and these forms may be part of your reporting) - and after reporting it, you may have deductions and exemptions. But all income is to be reported.
And yes, if you have a schedule C for instance, you may be deducting the amount of a purchase so to speak from the amount of a sale. This can result in a gain or a loss. This post is no substitute for an accountant/attorney.
(Whether you have to file a tax return with reporting is another story. That is beyond the scope of this post and I assume almost everyone here in the U.S. has to file a return.)
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Post by EmRR on Jan 13, 2023 14:36:09 GMT -6
Of note - if I file my own taxes, there's no place for me to report any 1099's I receive. The Fed gets them, I get them, it's on me to report the associated income. Nothing for me to do with the paper. if my accountant is filing, they DO have a place to list 1099's, and he wants that info. If you file yourself with TurboTax, there IS a place where TT asks you to list the 1099s you've received. I hate Intuit with a passion, but I still use TT almost every year. Grrrrrr.
No paper method I’ve ever seen though, nor admonishment to do so in the instructions. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 13, 2023 15:02:40 GMT -6
If you file yourself with TurboTax, there IS a place where TT asks you to list the 1099s you've received. I hate Intuit with a passion, but I still use TT almost every year. Grrrrrr.
No paper method I’ve ever seen though, nor admonishment to do so in the instructions. Right on - I had to do my taxes via paper when we lived overseas in 2010/11, and I was so surprised how much less detail they were actually asking for than TT asks for. And in the case of TT, it won't even let you submit sometimes without certain information that I know isn't really required via paper.
I'm fairly convinced tax preparation and the intricacies of the tax code are themselves a racket.
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Post by seawell on Jan 13, 2023 15:31:30 GMT -6
I do not like giving legal advice on forums, but I think this is obvious enough. If you have income, you have to report it. There is no dollar exemption from your own reporting (and these forms may be part of your reporting) - and after reporting it, you may have deductions and exemptions. But all income is to be reported. And yes, if you have a schedule C for instance, you may be deducting the amount of a purchase so to speak from the amount of a sale. This can result in a gain or a loss. This post is no substitute for an accountant/attorney. (Whether you have to file a tax return with reporting is another story. That is beyond the scope of this post and I assume almost everyone here in the U.S. has to file a return.) For sure, I think question is though, what exactly has changed? I'm guessing that if a legit company paid you more than $600 in years past, they would generate a 1099 so you couldn't dodge that. Now, if my Mom just sent me $600 through Venmo to help pay for surgery, that generates a 1099? In other words are we getting out of the getting paid for services/work area and getting into $600 gifts/used gear/donations/anything are taxable? I'm not so sure it been clearly defined here yet. I'm someone that has filed/paid for years everything legit that has been mentioned previously but I just don't understand why Reverb, etc.. keeps emailing me. |
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Post by ab101 on Jan 13, 2023 15:44:42 GMT -6
I think reverb wants people to think they received a big gift and use reverb more (implied). I agree - I cannot see what changed from prior years.
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cj
Full Member
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Post by cj on Jan 13, 2023 17:29:48 GMT -6
I do not like giving legal advice on forums, but I think this is obvious enough. If you have income, you have to report it. There is no dollar exemption from your own reporting (and these forms may be part of your reporting) - and after reporting it, you may have deductions and exemptions. But all income is to be reported. And yes, if you have a schedule C for instance, you may be deducting the amount of a purchase so to speak from the amount of a sale. This can result in a gain or a loss. This post is no substitute for an accountant/attorney. (Whether you have to file a tax return with reporting is another story. That is beyond the scope of this post and I assume almost everyone here in the U.S. has to file a return.) For sure, I think question is though, what exactly has changed? I'm guessing that if a legit company paid you more than $600 in years past, they would generate a 1099 so you couldn't dodge that. Now, if my Mom just sent me $600 through Venmo to help pay for surgery, that generates a 1099? In other words are we getting out of the getting paid for services/work area and getting into $600 gifts/used gear/donations/anything are taxable? I'm not so sure it been clearly defined here yet. I'm someone that has filed/paid for years everything legit that has been mentioned previously but I just don't understand why Reverb, etc.. keeps emailing me.
Technically, the taxes owed to the government has not changed.
What has changed is the reporting of money transfers by 3rd parties.Those 3rd parties (i.e. Reverb, Venmo, etc) now have to report to the IRS any money transfer ($600 or greater) for goods and services.The IRS looks at that as income to you until you offset that income on your tax return (i.e. cost of goods sold).
For a well run business with good bookkeeping, none of these changes should matter one iota. A business should already be accurately tracking expenses, profits, losses, etc and reporting them appropriately.
The people this change is going to hurt most are individual taxpayers. People like my mom who sells her 15 year old dining room set for $1,000 but has no way of proving to the IRS that she paid $9,000 for it all those years ago. That $1,000 now gets reported to the IRS and now she's stuck paying income tax on the $1,000 even though it's a loss. Because how many individuals keep receipts from their old dining rooms sets...
P.S. If your mom sent you that $600 and clicked on 'Friends & Family' then no 1099K will be issued. However, if she didn't click on 'Friends & Family' then a 1099K will be issued.
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Post by seawell on Jan 13, 2023 17:50:51 GMT -6
For sure, I think question is though, what exactly has changed? I'm guessing that if a legit company paid you more than $600 in years past, they would generate a 1099 so you couldn't dodge that. Now, if my Mom just sent me $600 through Venmo to help pay for surgery, that generates a 1099? In other words are we getting out of the getting paid for services/work area and getting into $600 gifts/used gear/donations/anything are taxable? I'm not so sure it been clearly defined here yet. I'm someone that has filed/paid for years everything legit that has been mentioned previously but I just don't understand why Reverb, etc.. keeps emailing me.
Technically, the taxes owed to the government has not changed.
What has changed is the reporting of money transfers by 3rd parties.Those 3rd parties (i.e. Reverb, Venmo, etc) now have to report to the IRS any money transfer ($600 or greater) for goods and services.The IRS looks at that as income to you until you offset that income on your tax return (i.e. cost of goods sold).
For a well run business with good bookkeeping, none of these changes should matter one iota. A business should already be accurately tracking expenses, profits, losses, etc and reporting them appropriately.
The people this change is going to hurt most are individual taxpayers. People like my mom who sells her 15 year old dining room set for $1,000 but has no way of proving to the IRS that she paid $9,000 for it all those years ago. That $1,000 now gets reported to the IRS and now she's stuck paying income tax on the $1,000 even though it's a loss. Because how many individuals keep receipts from their old dining rooms sets...
P.S. If your mom sent you that $600 and clicked on 'Friends & Family' then no 1099K will be issued. However, if she didn't click on 'Friends & Family' then a 1099K will be issued.
Thank you for the info! That definitely helps me get a better understanding...also, that sucks!!! 😡 |
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