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Post by carymiller on Dec 21, 2022 19:18:07 GMT -6
I'm really intrigued by the new Sonible Smart Limiter.
Anyone have any experience with it? Is it the new king of limiting? how does fair against things like Newfangled Elevate, Softube Weiss, and Fab Filter?
Or if you have other favorite limiters let me know.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 19:44:49 GMT -6
Zero of those. Sonible plugs are all way too bright, Newfangled Audio is deliberately distorted, and Softube Weiss is digitally distorted and is more of an effect than a limiter now.
I use the Tokyo Dawn Limiter 6 on insane, single band, 50-100ms release and 1x lookahead (modulates less of the signal at the expense of more distortion) to smash down 1-2db of the peakiest peaks occasionally.
If I need to limit more, say 3-4 db ppm or 1 vu, I use MJUC mk I or Neold V76U73 gainstaged for low distortion to take off 1 vu of gr. These are cleaner than most lookahead limiters with a preemphasis or deemphasis eq for MJUC.
If I need to level and brutally smush, I use Kotelnikov GE on fast attack. MDWDRC2 pumps more in typical use but I haven’t tried it in mastering yet.
Sometimes I’ll use PSP Xenon in mode 3, all the special settings like oversampling on for the tonal change doing 1 db off. I never use the dirty leveler.
Ozone and Elephant have a bunch of different colored settings to cycle through if you want color too. So does the Pulsar 1178 set on max oversampling if you want pure metallic grind without random behavior.
Oxford Limiter is also deliberately distorted to the point I find it a better hyper aggressive bus compressor than a limiter.
I never let any limiter touch the tonal content in anything I have to master. Everything always sounds worse. I can level, clip (ewww), and limit it myself. I don’t need a glorified Sonic Maximizer to do it for me. I avoid multiband limiters at all costs.
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Post by carymiller on Dec 21, 2022 20:11:10 GMT -6
Zero of those. Sonible plugs are all way too bright, Newfangled Audio is deliberately distorted, and Softube Weiss is digitally distorted and is more of an effect than a limiter now. I use the Tokyo Dawn Limiter 6 on insane, single band, 50-100ms release and 1x lookahead (modulates less of the signal at the expense of more distortion) to smash down 1-2db of the peakiest peaks occasionally. If I need to limit more, say 3-4 db ppm or 1 vu, I use MJUC mk I or Neold V76U73 gainstaged for low distortion to take off 1 vu of gr. These are cleaner than most lookahead limiters with a preemphasis or deemphasis eq for MJUC. If I need to level and brutally smush, I use Kotelnikov GE on fast attack. MDWDRC2 pumps more in typical use but I haven’t tried it in mastering yet. Sometimes I’ll use PSP Xenon in mode 3, all the special settings like oversampling on for the tonal change doing 1 db off. I never use the dirty leveler. Ozone and Elephant have a bunch of different colored settings to cycle through if you want color too. So does the Pulsar 1178 set on max oversampling if you want pure metallic grind without random behavior. Oxford Limiter is also deliberately distorted to the point I find it a better hyper aggressive bus compressor than a limiter. I never let any limiter touch the tonal content in anything I have to master. Everything always sounds worse. I can level, clip (ewww), and limit it myself. I don’t need a glorified Sonic Maximizer to do it for me. I avoid multiband limiters at all costs. Checking out the Tokyo Dawn. $50ish after converting from Euros is really fairly priced. How is the High Frequency Limiter on that plugin? I was thinking about Softube Weiss Deess for that, but if you're saying Softube is distorting...I dunno. My plan is to buy an IGS Zen this year as well for a hardware limiter. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 21:34:56 GMT -6
Zero of those. Sonible plugs are all way too bright, Newfangled Audio is deliberately distorted, and Softube Weiss is digitally distorted and is more of an effect than a limiter now. I use the Tokyo Dawn Limiter 6 on insane, single band, 50-100ms release and 1x lookahead (modulates less of the signal at the expense of more distortion) to smash down 1-2db of the peakiest peaks occasionally. If I need to limit more, say 3-4 db ppm or 1 vu, I use MJUC mk I or Neold V76U73 gainstaged for low distortion to take off 1 vu of gr. These are cleaner than most lookahead limiters with a preemphasis or deemphasis eq for MJUC. If I need to level and brutally smush, I use Kotelnikov GE on fast attack. MDWDRC2 pumps more in typical use but I haven’t tried it in mastering yet. Sometimes I’ll use PSP Xenon in mode 3, all the special settings like oversampling on for the tonal change doing 1 db off. I never use the dirty leveler. Ozone and Elephant have a bunch of different colored settings to cycle through if you want color too. So does the Pulsar 1178 set on max oversampling if you want pure metallic grind without random behavior. Oxford Limiter is also deliberately distorted to the point I find it a better hyper aggressive bus compressor than a limiter. I never let any limiter touch the tonal content in anything I have to master. Everything always sounds worse. I can level, clip (ewww), and limit it myself. I don’t need a glorified Sonic Maximizer to do it for me. I avoid multiband limiters at all costs. Checking out the Tokyo Dawn. $50ish after converting from Euros is really fairly priced. How is the High Frequency Limiter on that plugin? I was thinking about Softube Weiss Deess for that, but if you're saying Softube is distorting...I dunno. My plan is to buy an IGS Zen this year as well for a hardware limiter. Yes put the Weiss into SPAN. It is not clean and has lots of IMD and amplitude modulation sidebands. That is the "sound" right there. It's just old code that sounds cool on some things. Sonnox did not attempt to clean it up in anyway, much to it's detriment for mastering.
The high frequency limiter is my favorite module! You're not going to find anything else like that unless you buy a Maselec MPL-2. The Limiter 6 modules in it are not set up to do anything stupid for you. The plugin lets you make it anywhere from ultra gritty to extremely clean while minimizing the digital distortion found in other mastering limiters like the Waves ones, the peak part of Limitless, and the Weiss.
The Oxford Limiter and Elevate are intentionally distorted. Elevate's workflow makes you use the clipper (the "saturator") and the "Enhance" fader on the Oxford Limiter is a non-linear waveshaper like Inflator but just for transients and a different shape. The Enhance slider is a wet/dry fader and Safe Mode sets it at 100% so almost all transients will be soft clipped off to not clip the PCM files and the "Auto Comp" button another a true peak limiter to make sure the intersample peaks (aka the real peaks) don't clip the converters being fed the pcm.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 21, 2022 22:31:35 GMT -6
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Post by theshea on Dec 22, 2022 0:23:35 GMT -6
TDR lim6 is great. using it for years. make shure to read the manual as it has a lot of features. its way more than just a limiter.
and it can be bought for 30€ when on sale.
i also loke the metering and the the auto pad lets you hear all without gain increase.
and there‘s a VERY GOOD walk through video on YT by dan worrall.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2022 3:00:08 GMT -6
You might enjoy this:
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Post by carymiller on Dec 22, 2022 3:49:55 GMT -6
Another contestant is the FF Pro-L2 (which I don't own yet). But I wonder if there's better limiters now (Sonible, TDR, Newfangled Audio, etc.). Also thanks for the video! I do appreciate Streaky, he knows his stuff. I do own a few really good mastering compressor plugins like Unisum by Tone Projects (which Bob Katz worked on with Rune I believe) And the Softube Germanium Compressor plugin for color (I have 15 years of experience with the real thing, and used them in mastering for most of that time span, so I'm just used to them, even in plugin form). What I need is a High Frequency Limiter, a final limiter, and possibly a clipper. Finally...I'm debating saving $3K for an IGS Audio Zen after listening to this review. Because I don't really have any outboard anymore. Just a Pro Tools Ultimate system. IGS Audio Zen <- Link here. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2022 5:30:43 GMT -6
If you’ve got the dough, why wouldn’t you buy the Zen ?  Although at 3 grand you are also in Bettermaker territory, and its controllable and recall able in your daw. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 10:55:03 GMT -6
Another contestant is the FF Pro-L2 (which I don't own yet). But I wonder if there's better limiters now (Sonible, TDR, Newfangled Audio, etc.). Also thanks for the video! I do appreciate Streaky, he knows his stuff. I do own a few really good mastering compressor plugins like Unisum by Tone Projects (which Bob Katz worked on with Rune I believe) And the Softube Germanium Compressor plugin for color (I have 15 years of experience with the real thing, and used them in mastering for most of that time span, so I'm just used to them, even in plugin form). What I need is a High Frequency Limiter, a final limiter, and possibly a clipper. Finally...I'm debating saving $3K for an IGS Audio Zen after listening to this review. Because I don't really have any outboard anymore. Just a Pro Tools Ultimate system. IGS Audio Zen <- Link here. Honestly dude. Try the tdr bundle and limiter 6. The high frequency limiter is gold especially the relative setting. Nova ge is a great de-esser and de-resonator especially for the surgical curves. The only comparable product is the Sonnox Dynamic EQ which does less and is owned by Focusrite now. I even use NOVA GE as a channel strip. De-edger, once you hear it, you won’t want to not use it! These 3 are all pretty simple. The compressors have a steeper learning curve but there’s not much else comparable to them. The free versions will get you partially there and the GE versions, the only limitation is the analog recall where their settings won’t save when you close the daw. So you can play with Limiter 6 before buying it. Dan |
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Post by carymiller on Dec 22, 2022 11:32:12 GMT -6
If you’ve got the dough, why wouldn’t you buy the Zen ? Although at 3 grand you are also in Bettermaker territory, and its controllable and recall able in your daw. I love Bettermaker stuff, but that link to the sound samples from the Zen...jeez. It really sounds close to a Chandler Zenar (that vibe/tone/glue is just amazing to me). I could also wait a few months more and get the Chandler, but at that price the Zen makes a lot more sense for basically the same thing (the only major difference are the frequency choices on the HPF, which are only SLIGHTLY different, and maybe a bit better on the Zen TBH). Also I think I'm attracted to the simplicity of the Zen Vs. the Bettermaker. And the fact that it's Dual Mono/Stereo so I could track with it. The other thing I'm thinking about is a new mic...if I buy the Zen instead of a Zenar I can justify saving for a UA 167 this year (I love David Bock's stuff). I'm unfortunately a widower...last year my longtime partner and my mother both passed. So I moved home after a lot of deliberation because my father is elderly and alone now too. I put some money into his redoing his bathrooms/kitchens and floors, etc. and in return he basically said I don't have to worry about rent. So I'm going to build my studio gear list back up a bit and work on original music when I'm not working this year. I don't run a public studio anymore so it's more about pleasing me than anything. However I have a ton of songs I've always wanted to get to. |
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Post by carymiller on Dec 22, 2022 11:47:52 GMT -6
Another contestant is the FF Pro-L2 (which I don't own yet). But I wonder if there's better limiters now (Sonible, TDR, Newfangled Audio, etc.). Also thanks for the video! I do appreciate Streaky, he knows his stuff. I do own a few really good mastering compressor plugins like Unisum by Tone Projects (which Bob Katz worked on with Rune I believe) And the Softube Germanium Compressor plugin for color (I have 15 years of experience with the real thing, and used them in mastering for most of that time span, so I'm just used to them, even in plugin form). What I need is a High Frequency Limiter, a final limiter, and possibly a clipper. Finally...I'm debating saving $3K for an IGS Audio Zen after listening to this review. Because I don't really have any outboard anymore. Just a Pro Tools Ultimate system. IGS Audio Zen <- Link here. Honestly dude. Try the tdr bundle and limiter 6. The high frequency limiter is gold especially the relative setting. Nova ge is a great de-esser and de-resonator especially for the surgical curves. The only comparable product is the Sonnox Dynamic EQ which does less and is owned by Focusrite now. I even use NOVA GE as a channel strip. De-edger, once you hear it, you won’t want to not use it! These 3 are all pretty simple. The compressors have a steeper learning curve but there’s not much else comparable to them. The free versions will get you partially there and the GE versions, the only limitation is the analog recall where their settings won’t save when you close the daw. So you can play with Limiter 6 before buying it. Dan Hey Dan, thanks. I'm definitely going to buy Limiter 6 at least. Do you think Nova works better than Fab Filter Dyn EQ3? (that's my current surgical EQ). I'm going to demo this stuff next week after I finish setting up the new room. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 12:05:32 GMT -6
Honestly dude. Try the tdr bundle and limiter 6. The high frequency limiter is gold especially the relative setting. Nova ge is a great de-esser and de-resonator especially for the surgical curves. The only comparable product is the Sonnox Dynamic EQ which does less and is owned by Focusrite now. I even use NOVA GE as a channel strip. De-edger, once you hear it, you won’t want to not use it! These 3 are all pretty simple. The compressors have a steeper learning curve but there’s not much else comparable to them. The free versions will get you partially there and the GE versions, the only limitation is the analog recall where their settings won’t save when you close the daw. So you can play with Limiter 6 before buying it. Dan Hey Dan, thanks. I'm definitely going to buy Limiter 6 at least. Do you think Nova works better than Fab Filter Dyn EQ3? (that's my current surgical EQ). I'm going to demo this stuff next week after I finish setting up the new room. Nova is more complex to use but it does a lot more and does it cleaner. It has both upward and downward expansion and compression, two different gain:q relationships (musical and surgical), a wideband rms dynamics processor, and an analog transformer emulation in the paid version should you want some bass distortion and hysteresis. Try the free version out. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2022 12:11:15 GMT -6
Sorry for you losses, a tough period for your family, but good that you and your Dad can be together making new family memories.
I’d say, go with your gut as the zen is obviously whispering sweet gear nothings and new good mikes are always cool !
Sounds like 2023 is going to be a good year !
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Post by carymiller on Dec 22, 2022 12:36:35 GMT -6
Sorry for you losses, a tough period for your family, but good that you and your Dad can be together making new family memories. I’d say, go with your gut as the zen is obviously whispering sweet gear nothings and new good mikes are always cool ! Sounds like 2023 is going to be a good year ! I appreciate it. I'm lucky...my job paid for 40 sessions of grief counseling...I have wonderful friends...and my family pulled together the best it could. A lot of people don't have that much. I miss them both everyday, but the thing about grief is you have to move forward with it. At my core, I've always been an artist first...I think it's kind of a full circle thing coming back to that. I'm working with my buddy Mike Malinin, who used to be the drummer for the Goo Goo Dolls. We already tracked 11 songs...but I want to keep going. I brought about 80 demos to the table...and I've written a few new things. When I let myself have that creative time, I seem to feel better. So I'm going with it. |
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Post by carymiller on Dec 22, 2022 12:37:22 GMT -6
Hey Dan, thanks. I'm definitely going to buy Limiter 6 at least. Do you think Nova works better than Fab Filter Dyn EQ3? (that's my current surgical EQ). I'm going to demo this stuff next week after I finish setting up the new room. Nova is more complex to use but it does a lot more and does it cleaner. It has both upward and downward expansion and compression, two different gain:q relationships (musical and surgical), a wideband rms dynamics processor, and an analog transformer emulation in the paid version should you want some bass distortion and hysteresis. Try the free version out. That's interesting that it does it cleaner. I actually like the sound of Fab Filter's stuff because it's pretty clean! Yeah you sold me. |
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Post by carymiller on Dec 22, 2022 16:19:24 GMT -6
Hey Cary, sorry to hear about the rough year. The best to you and your dad. I have Smart Limit. I'm mainly using it in a mastering/limiting context but I should try it in other places. So far, very hit or miss so I don't think I can recommend it but it is an intriguing source of ideas. Often there are aspects of the AI-decisions that I like, which I can then recreate on my own in a subtler way, usually in parallel. Used as a straightforward limiter (with less functionality), it can be cleaner than Fabfilter but overall feels less intuitive. I'll have to give the TDR Limiter another whirl. I didn't get along with it as much as other TDR products, but if I find myself tweaking too much without a result, I tend to write things off a bit too quickly. Ditto for the Softube Weiss emulations - I was very on the fence on those. Ultimately was just too pricey even with black friday deals. First, thanks for the well-wishing. I appreciate it. It really has been a hard year...but we're doing our best. It's all we can do. As for Smart Limit: That's interesting to know. Mainly I just wanted things to read in LUFS at a final limiting stage since streaming has overtaken everything in the USA, and -14LUFS is the Spotify average (Unless there's a new LUFS average everyone is agreeing on for most streaming services to turn up and down a bit). So Smart Limit's LUFS metering and controls really stood out. But the TDR Limiter seems to be able to do that too. The A.I. Feature sounds great on paper, but if Dan is right that it's messing with the sounds/higher frequencies, I'm not sure how I feel about that. I used to master full time as a job, so stereo imaging with integrity is a big deal to me. You're saying it's more transparent than the Fab Filter...which is ANOTHER big deal, as that was another one I was looking at. The TDR Limiter 6 is really tempting because it includes a HF Limiter (which is what I wanted Weiss Deess for), and a clipper. And it's cheaper than buying all that stuff separate (if I can get it for $50ish bucks...that's crazy...we're talking Valhalla DSP and Kazrog Prices). I might see which ones I can demo this weekend and report back with my findings. There's a lot of sales and I could in theory grab a few of these, but I'm not sure I need more than one. After 15+ years of buying three or four waves plugins at a time, on Cyber Monday I was able to score a Mercury license for $340, with studio classics and the Abby Road Collection. So I pretty much never have to buy any Waves stuff again. I own everything by Valhalla DSP, and my secret sauce for mixing are plugin FX by Eventide which come from their newer hardware units (which are now all on sale ATM BTW). No UAD yet, but I have an exrra PCIe slot for an 8core PCIe card if I feel like adding one down the road. I have a couple nice preamps (Useful Arts, which is an amazing Tube Pre, and a Warm Audio 273 to get into Neveish territory when I want that). But the heart of my system is a Prism Titan via DIGILINK, and an Imperium 2400 monitor controller. Very clean/doesn't lie to you. Small patch bay. No frills. I miss having more stuff, but if you can't get results with that you need to work on your craft. This thread is interesting though. If TDR Limit 6 can take over for several plugins at $50 then I'd rather put aside more money for a Zen or a UA 167 mic next. |
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Post by bossanova on Dec 23, 2022 13:27:39 GMT -6
If you can wait, TDR Limiter has gone on sale for $9.99 in the past year. I waited until it dipped that low to pick it up.
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Post by mrkite on Feb 25, 2023 15:42:03 GMT -6
I'm really intrigued by the new Sonible Smart Limiter. Anyone have any experience with it? Is it the new king of limiting? how does fair against things like Newfangled Elevate, Softube Weiss, and Fab Filter? Or if you have other favorite limiters let me know. So, how did your search work out for you? What limiter you ended up with? |
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Post by carymiller on Feb 25, 2023 15:57:26 GMT -6
I'm really intrigued by the new Sonible Smart Limiter. Anyone have any experience with it? Is it the new king of limiting? how does fair against things like Newfangled Elevate, Softube Weiss, and Fab Filter? Or if you have other favorite limiters let me know. So, how did your search work out for you? What limiter you ended up with? So far Elevate has been doing the job! I haven't needed another limiter yet. Though I will try a few more out soon. |
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Post by jaba on Feb 25, 2023 17:49:52 GMT -6
Just curious - where are most of you using limiters?
2-buss, groups, tracks?
I don't really use them much other than the TDR on 2-buss (mixing: mostly the HF limiter, mastering: whatever's needed) but may start trying them out on drum buss etc for certain mixes.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 25, 2023 22:22:13 GMT -6
Just curious - where are most of you using limiters? 2-buss, groups, tracks? I don't really use them much other than the TDR on 2-buss (mixing: mostly the HF limiter, mastering: whatever's needed) but may start trying them out on drum buss etc for certain mixes. I’ve never used limiters or clippers for creative purposes. It’s on my “to learn” list but I just haven’t gotten around to it. So for me, only on two bus for mixdown. Boring, 1 - 2db reduction, no audible impact, don’t clip. Yawn. |
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Post by mrkite on Feb 27, 2023 3:08:44 GMT -6
So, how did your search work out for you? What limiter you ended up with? So far Elevate has been doing the job! I haven't needed another limiter yet. Though I will try a few more out soon. Thanks. Elevate looks quite complicated compared to, let‘s the Fab Filter limiter, no? Steep learning curve? And, do you also use the EQ that comes with the bundle? |
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Post by mcirish on Feb 27, 2023 16:04:18 GMT -6
There are some mixes I've done that sounds great with the Weiss maximizer doing a little something (usually with the wide setting) followed by another limiter doing more of the work, like Izotope. It may be gritty or distorted or whatever, but in some mixes, it sounds fantastic. I'm using it more as an effect than for the limiting. I suppose it depends on if you want ultra clean or something with character, even if that character has some grit.
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