|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 18, 2022 18:32:06 GMT -6
I think I've seen this discussed before but I can't remember the outcome.
I occasionally dream of upgrading my monitors to some kind of $5k/pair type thing. I just don't have the budget right now and, frankly, I'm getting good mixes on the system I "know" so I'll probably wait until one of my current pairs craps out.
But.
Since mixing in mono is a good practice anyway, would there by merit to just getting one really nice monitor and setting it up right in the my desk? I can do my critical mixing on that (surgical EQ, etc) and go to my stereo pairs for late stage stereo mixing.
Is this dumb?
|
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Dec 18, 2022 18:48:12 GMT -6
I may be the exception to the rule.. but I have never done mixes in mono....
If you are getting translatable mixes on your current rig... its just GAS really...
cheers
Wiz
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2022 19:12:01 GMT -6
What Wiz said, if your monitors are that good there should be no issues with mono translation anyway. Sorry to talk about the Core 59's ad nauseum but I will on occasion collapse the song to mono because the SSL has a button and it's easy to do. Due to the clarity and strong phantom centre of the 59's I can read the signs before doing the test, it's fun an' all but not really necessary.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 18, 2022 19:24:28 GMT -6
I may be the exception to the rule.. but I have never done mixes in mono.... If you are getting translatable mixes on your current rig... its just GAS really... cheers Wiz Done. You’re right. Thank you. As you were! Haha. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
|
Post by ericn on Dec 18, 2022 21:17:05 GMT -6
Unless your a 100 mono it would be a pretty dumb move, add in the fact that even most mono music is consumed in a stereo setting.
|
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 19, 2022 4:57:29 GMT -6
To be contrarian, to me the only point would be to buy a significantly improved sonic experience, more truer detail and lower accurate bass, more revealed mid range etc.?
You’d be able listen and compare either side of your stereo mix and in mono, if you wanted.
You wouldn’t do it to improve balance, depth, spatial placement, as noted above.
Not certain, I would do it, maybe you could demo your preferred monitor and see ?
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Dec 19, 2022 8:56:57 GMT -6
The mono mixing thing is completely outdated and bad advice these days. You have two ears. Use them both.
|
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 19, 2022 9:59:10 GMT -6
I still do level checks in mono on a little auratone. Helps with frequency balance too. I wouldn't buy like one Barefoot for that job, but I still believe in the power of mono lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 19, 2022 10:25:29 GMT -6
To be contrarian, to me the only point would be to buy a significantly improved sonic experience, more truer detail and lower accurate bass, more revealed mid range etc.? You’d be able listen and compare either side of your stereo mix and in mono, if you wanted. You wouldn’t do it to improve balance, depth, spatial placement, as noted above. Not certain, I would do it, maybe you could demo your preferred monitor and see ? Right, that would be the idea. |
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 19, 2022 14:05:25 GMT -6
Have to disagree with some here. Mono mixing is timeless, especially for writers / arrangers. Once you know what a mono folddown from a good mix sounds like and you're aware of the associated pan laws of your DAW, mono clarifies decision-making on a lot of fronts - phase, arrangement, level and frequency balances,layering of transients, the proper level of aux percussion and reverbs/delays. If you can achieve clarity and strong timbral/textural definition in a single column of sound, the stereo mix sounds even better and more enveloping. Clarity achieved through panning is the far more overrated piece of advice in my opinion. So what are your thoughts on dishing out $$$ for a single monitor (to be clear, I've decided this is GAS for now and not buying, but still interested in the theoretical concept). In my case, I do a lot of mono. For one thing, I track and mix. So in tracking I'm usually in mono. But even in early mix stages I tend to do a lot of work in mono simply because it's too easy to make things sound good when they are separated. At least for my ears. And finally, I'm pretty convinced that most people listen to music on terrible systems like their laptops, mono bluetooth speakers, phones, and cars... so I pay a lot of attention to how my mixes sound in mono. |
|
|
|
Post by jaba on Dec 19, 2022 14:10:33 GMT -6
I'm personally a big fan of mixing in mono. It just works for me.
To me the biggest benefit is doing it through a single-point speaker (ex: Auratone). This is were mono really shines. I find mono on a single high-end main monitor is not nearly as revealing or useful.
I think the OP wanted to get the "presentation" of high-end monitors without the cost of a pair. I can see how a single could be useful, but it'd be a lot of coin for a different perspective that doesn't have the full benefit of a good pair of mains, nor is it the best option for mono.
|
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Dec 19, 2022 15:25:33 GMT -6
So what are your thoughts on dishing out $$$ for a single monitor (to be clear, I've decided this is GAS for now and not buying, but still interested in the theoretical concept). This isn't something that wise people, or even most people do. While I believe mono is as relevant as ever these days and spend a fair amount of time listening & mixing in mono myself... one super hi fi speaker is kinda missing the point. And wasting a lotta money. YMMV. For one thing what happens a year, two years down the road when you decide you want to buy another hi fi speaker? Will it match? Has it been discontinued and on mkIII now? Can you even find one period? To me the entire point of listening in mono is to hear what things are going to sound like in, how shall I say it..? Less then ideal environments by less then critical listeners. Think about someone hearing the song on a tiny $29 bluetooth speaker... or driving around in a shitbox Honda with blown speakers? What are they gonna hear? Occasionally you'll see a studio that does indeed have one super rad speaker in an edit booth, live room monitor, tech bench or put to use in an echo chamber. Usually that's because they blew up the other one and there was no viable repair/replacement option. So whuddya do with one "nice" speaker? Clean out the wine cellar (basement) and wham-O - Echo chamber! |
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Dec 19, 2022 15:30:15 GMT -6
You’d also have to customize all your headphones by removing one side from each. 😀
|
|
|
|
Post by carymiller on Dec 19, 2022 15:41:02 GMT -6
I think I've seen this discussed before but I can't remember the outcome. I occasionally dream of upgrading my monitors to some kind of $5k/pair type thing. I just don't have the budget right now and, frankly, I'm getting good mixes on the system I "know" so I'll probably wait until one of my current pairs craps out. But. Since mixing in mono is a good practice anyway, would there by merit to just getting one really nice monitor and setting it up right in the my desk? I can do my critical mixing on that (surgical EQ, etc) and go to my stereo pairs for late stage stereo mixing. Is this dumb? I dunno about dumb...maybe eccentric? You could get away with it if you mixed 100% left/right/center. So that means hi-hat goes up the middle, dead center panned. Toms go hard left and right. This way you could use the one speaker as a Mono check accurately...ultimately, I'd wait/save for a pair of monitors and break them in at the same time though. |
|
|
|
Post by bchurch on Dec 19, 2022 16:27:31 GMT -6
You’d also have to customize all your headphones by removing one side from each. 😀 Plus, you have to wear it on your forehead. |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Dec 19, 2022 16:50:39 GMT -6
Have to disagree with some here. Mono mixing is timeless, especially for writers / arrangers. Once you know what a mono folddown from a good mix sounds like and you're aware of the associated pan laws of your DAW, mono clarifies decision-making on a lot of fronts - phase, arrangement, level and frequency balances,layering of transients, the proper level of aux percussion and reverbs/delays. If you can achieve clarity and strong timbral/textural definition in a single column of sound, the stereo mix sounds even better and more enveloping. Clarity achieved through panning is the far more overrated piece of advice in my opinion. Thanks for the reply... Could you expand a little on this please, as I mentioned I just don't work in mono when mixing.. but, always willing to learn... I write and arrange towards the final mix...(maybe this is why I don't feel the need to mix in mono) and... I work mainly in LCR (99%).. (again probably another reason) when you say it clarifies decision making could you give us a little expand on this...? Are you working on other peoples music? cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 19, 2022 18:42:24 GMT -6
So what are your thoughts on dishing out $$$ for a single monitor (to be clear, I've decided this is GAS for now and not buying, but still interested in the theoretical concept). To me the entire point of listening in mono is to hear what things are going to sound like in, how shall I say it..? Less then ideal environments by less then critical listeners. Think about someone hearing the song on a tiny $29 bluetooth speaker... or driving around in a shitbox Honda with blown speakers? What are they gonna hear? Oooh... this is kind of a slam dunk point. Didn't really think of that. If it sounds good on a super-high quality mono speaker, that still doesn't help me in the "listening on your phone" or "laptop" or "shitbox Honda" scenario. Good point. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 19, 2022 18:59:26 GMT -6
I'm the exact opposite. Great sounding albums like Roxy Music's Avalon or Quadrophenia are classics for many reasons, one being the amazing sound that allows you to hear all the brilliant musical ideas in their full glory. All the incredible details are there for you to discover and enjoy. The music is an expression of the artists highest aspirations. If the criteria for mixing something like Dark Side of the Moon or Aja was skewed toward cheap earphones or a mono car speaker, we would have been missing out on masterpieces.
I believe in making everything I do sound as good as it possibly can, and letting it be whatever it is in less critical environments.They probably sound just fine on shitty AirPods anyway. If we devalue music to the point where we create it to sound ok on the worst gear like an old laptop speaker, we've lost sight of why we make music.
All those famous albums mixed on NS-10's were usually done in superb studios with great mics, an incredible console, good rooms by outstanding engineers and producers, then mastered by pros.
The fact they trained their ears to balance using NS-10's didn't make the final recording less high fidelity.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2022 19:51:07 GMT -6
I believe in making everything I do sound as good as it possibly can, and letting it be whatever it is in less critical environments.They probably sound just fine on shitty AirPods anyway. If we devalue music to the point where we create it to sound ok on the worst gear like an old laptop speaker, we've lost sight of why we make music. All those famous albums mixed on NS-10's were usually done in superb studios with great mics, an incredible console, good rooms by outstanding engineers and producers, then mastered by pros. The fact they trained their ears to balance using NS-10's didn't make the final recording less high fidelity. Nice Martin, I'll collapse my post into this then. I've used the everything and the kitchen sink approach to mixing / mastering (auratones, laptops, phones etc.). In a good room with good monitors like ATC's, Proac's or my new Core's I just don't have to. Neither do I have to mix in mono or try and approach the lowest common denominator, it'll just work.
Songs from artists like Fleetwood Mac sound great on pretty much anything and they certainly weren't targeting Iphone's. If a monitoring solution can't translate across mediums and give you the technical information needed to fix problems they're pretty much pointless.
|
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Dec 19, 2022 21:36:59 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Dec 19, 2022 21:50:01 GMT -6
More on point - there can definitely be an advantage to "mixing" or I guess I should say "monitoring" in mono at some point during the mix process. I don't mix ENTIRELY in mono, but a quick check here and there reveals relationships that are not readily apparent in stereo. These days, I think young guys are not sure what mono even is or what it does to out of phase stereo signals. It's not unusual for me to hear a mix that completely disappears and goes to 97% silence with only ghosts of reverb remaining when flipping to mono. Personally, I can hear that in stereo in about 0.275 seconds, but evidently there is a whole generation who thinks it sounds fine. I laugh when the live stream comments light up about "no sound". LOL Mono reveals problems that stereo can hide. I had one famous Nashville mixer who used to mix at my joint when he was in LA. He always brought 1 Auratone with him, and I hooked it up to my amps. He would mix at about 70-75dB and no one in the studio could even whisper cause he couldn't hear the mix at those levels. He never opened up into stereo or louder volumes until the mix was 85% finished. He did mix LCR, so that took the guesswork out of panning in mono, but his mixes translated like nothing else. Mixed for huge name talent. For me, mono makes the most sense on an Auratone or some kind of boom box. Not a high end speaker. All that said, I hate monitoring in mono and just stay there long enough to make some observations before switching back to the 708P's.  |
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Dec 20, 2022 0:26:22 GMT -6
I feel like I've seen conductors in single ear goggles, but no I don't have experience in that world. Def. dig the one ear off thing for cutting my own vocals and acoustic guitar. Maybe I need those Beyers! |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 20, 2022 4:27:53 GMT -6
I have a single Auratone 5C powered by a Hafler P1000 to my right hand side, I personally wouldn't take "mono" any further than that.
Aside from occasionally pressing the MONO button on the Avocet to check for phase artefacts.
|
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Dec 20, 2022 12:57:10 GMT -6
I find it strange that monitors are sold primarily as singles, like the only people out there are buying just one. And you never see “matched pair” in the title. Wouldn’t we want a perfectly matched pair?
It makes me wonder: maybe 2 monitors in 99% of rooms create such an acoustic non linear mess that it just doesn’t matter? That’s the benefit of a single, it’s just 1 speaker vs space… compare that to speaker vs space vs a 2nd phase shifted and reflected speaker vs space.
I have been in many situations where the monitors are cheapies and cloudy, and I wish for just a single low distortion HiFi detailed thing to shape on.
So I vote: I can definitely work that way, all panning in headphones and a $400 pair of cheapo monitors.
Horrible idea if you ever want to re-sell it maybe.. “here’s 1 speaker”
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 20, 2022 13:01:23 GMT -6
I find it strange that monitors are sold primarily as singles, like the only people out there are buying just one. And you never see “matched pair” in the title. Wouldn’t we want a perfectly matched pair? It makes me wonder: maybe 2 monitors in 99% of rooms create such an acoustic non linear mess that it just doesn’t matter? That’s the benefit of a single, it’s just 1 speaker vs space… compare that to speaker vs space vs a 2nd phase shifted and reflected speaker vs space. I have been in many situations where the monitors are cheapies and cloudy, and I wish for just a single low distortion HiFi detailed thing to shape on. So I vote: I can definitely work that way, all panning in headphones and a $400 pair of cheapo monitors. Horrible idea if you ever want to re-sell it maybe.. “here’s 1 speaker” This is along the lines of my original thinking. Not for checking mono, but for having an ultra detailed monitor at 1/2 the cost. |
|
