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Post by OtisGreying on Dec 18, 2022 22:23:30 GMT -6
What about this thing? www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PLPROC--furman-pl-pro-c-20a-with-voltmeterIt has the same "clamp down voltage" as Bat's unit. Furman says it reduces noise and contains their most advanced surge suppression tech. And perhaps ericn, this bit of info they state addresses your concern regarding the MOV's dying and needing replacements? - "SMP+ (Series Multi-Stage Protection Plus) The Furman PL-PRO C's SMP+ surge suppression virtually eliminates service calls. Traditional surge suppression circuits "sacrifice" themselves when exposed to multiple transient voltage spikes, requiring the dismantling of your system, and repair of your surge suppressor. Not so with SMP+. With the PL-PRO C's SMP+, damaging transient voltages are safely absorbed, clamped and dissipated. No sacrificed parts, no service calls, no down time. " Is it going on a 20amp circuit? If not the PL Plus-c the 15 amp version is around $200 less. I think I need 15v I'm just working in regular houses, does that bit about the SMP address your MOV concerns eric? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2022 22:28:20 GMT -6
Broadcast guys always said nothing will protect gear against lightning, you can protect people, but not gear. Of course I’ll never forget one morning as I’m driving my wife to work seeing the station a very good friend was head engineer get hit with lightning. I woke him up before the station could. Of course I did make some good money that day. I agree, they do seem to get more inventive when there's hundreds of milion's worth of equipment on the line. Even then though there's absolutely no gurantee's, even if you managed to cut down the direct hit to a 100 amps it's still more then enough to damage everything.
And ouch by the way, I thought I was having a bad year. I've not been hit by lightning yet touch wood so that's something..
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Post by OtisGreying on Dec 18, 2022 22:28:51 GMT -6
I do have tens of thousands of $$$ in gear which I really don't want to see a portion of it break due to a power outage etc. and I'm also worried about my mic receiving these spikes from my damn mini fridge/other appliances that might come in the future.... That's where I'm coming from. If there is a Furman unit/ some other unit that you think would make a difference in that regard I'd appreciate it because my Furman M-8Dx does not seem to stop a mini-fridge caused loud audio pop/spike in my microphones. Tell me about it, I've got a mini fridge in the front room and it cuts out the projector every time it pops on. The reason why I bought mine is because I suspected that my Shelford crapped out due to a power outage. Before that I didn't even bother with surge protection..
I mean Eric is right in a sense, a typical MOV (metal oxide varistors) isn't going to do anything against a large influx of power. Standard UPS PDU's (even APC business) use thermal fuses in conjunction which bricks the unit after a large spike but fortunately it does cut the power and protects equipment. Up against lightning? Who knows? I've seen people go to some great lengths with massive ground rods etc. for large telecomm sites. a massive UPS will protect you to a degree but direct flow or strikes will still take everything out. The cost of diversion protection alongside the massive lengths one has to go it's really not worth it..
For the four times it happens a year over here I just switch everything off and keep my insurance on speed dial. As for the rest, I'd consider something like a Tripp Lite 12 or APC PDU..
The Tripp will protect up to 2880 joules, it costs like $50.00? Has an insurance giveout of $150K in case something happens and on top of that if the MOV's start to fail it will brick itself. You might be getting line noise because the Furman isn't providing adequate protection..
That insurance bit on the Tripp Lites tripped me out ha. They seem like a bargain but the voltage let through/clamp down rating is mostly 330v versus 188v (lower is better apparently) on the furmans. I think that stat is the important one cause it dictates how much voltage in a surge will be let through to your gear. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 18, 2022 22:30:20 GMT -6
Is it going on a 20amp circuit? If not the PL Plus-c the 15 amp version is around $200 less. I think I need 15v I'm just working in regular houses, does that bit about the SMP address your MOV concerns eric? The SMO is a better solution, go check breaker box and locate the breaker if it’s 15 amp, no real reason for a 20 amp. I have 20 amp units because they were purchased with the live rig in mind. The 3 total that I own were all purchased from guys who were over sold. |
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Post by OtisGreying on Dec 18, 2022 22:35:23 GMT -6
I think I need 15v I'm just working in regular houses, does that bit about the SMP address your MOV concerns eric? The SMO is a better solution, go check breaker box and locate the breaker if it’s 15 amp, no real reason for a 20 amp. I have 20 amp units because they were purchased with the live rig in mind. The 3 total that I own were all purchased from guys who were over sold.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2022 22:40:56 GMT -6
That insurance bit on the Tripp Lites tripped me out ha. They seem like a bargain but the voltage let through/clamp down rating is mostly 330v versus 188v (lower is better apparently) on the furmans. I think that stat is the important one cause it dictates how much voltage in a surge will be let through to your gear. Anything above 400V is too high and yes lower generally means better but what you're also looking for is energy dissipation (displayed in joules). A higher amount means better protection.. Also that's odd because the UL clamp value rating is usually always 330, 400 and 500V.
Finally response time is key, it should be less than 1 nanoo nanoo (nanosecond)..
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 18, 2022 22:45:12 GMT -6
The SMO is a better solution, go check breaker box and locate the breaker if it’s 15 amp, no real reason for a 20 amp. I have 20 amp units because they were purchased with the live rig in mind. The 3 total that I own were all purchased from guys who were over sold.
That’s the one. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 18, 2022 22:52:27 GMT -6
That insurance bit on the Tripp Lites tripped me out ha. They seem like a bargain but the voltage let through/clamp down rating is mostly 330v versus 188v (lower is better apparently) on the furmans. I think that stat is the important one cause it dictates how much voltage in a surge will be let through to your gear. Anything above 400V is too high and yes lower generally means better but what you're also looking for is energy dissipation (displayed in joules). A higher amount means better protection.. Also that's odd because the UL clamp value rating is usually always 330, 400 and 500V.
Finally response time is key, it should be less than 1 nanoo nanoo (nanosecond)..
Those specs are seldom listed on what pro audio channels sell. Danny the problem is so much crap has carried over into pro audio and general rack equipment suppliers. One other issue as stupid as it is the audio world balks at anything bigger than a 10in deep single rack space. Here is a related matter you will find interesting, I was really considering switching everything in the live rig to Powercon connectors till I found out other than the expensive bi-directional version, you can’t hot patch. Would have loved a fairly standard locking 20 amp connector. |
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Post by OtisGreying on Dec 18, 2022 23:00:11 GMT -6
Found it for 165$ brand new! Literally 40$ more than the ones I have...
And it supposedly according to furman has the same surge suppression as the 3 thousand dollar ones. Either I've found the deal of the century or Im getting conned. Ha |
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Post by tim on Dec 19, 2022 22:03:08 GMT -6
So - spoiler - the Lightning did not CONTACT anything as best as we can tell.....read on... Mostly output IC's on certain pieces. Some other simple stuff like switch mode power supplies, etc.. Sounds like EMP from the strike perhaps. Could explain ICs getting fried more than other components. Curious to know how any tube gear did? I run SurgeX as well. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 19, 2022 22:34:46 GMT -6
So - spoiler - the Lightning did not CONTACT anything as best as we can tell.....read on... Mostly output IC's on certain pieces. Some other simple stuff like switch mode power supplies, etc.. Sounds like EMP from the strike perhaps. Could explain ICs getting fried more than other components. Curious to know how any tube gear did? I run SurgeX as well. Tube gear was fine! |
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 20, 2022 7:57:51 GMT -6
If there's a thermonuclear strike then I'm comforted by the knowledge my tube gear will be unaffected by the resulting electromagnetic pinch.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 20, 2022 7:59:31 GMT -6
Found it for 165$ brand new! Literally 40$ more than the ones I have...
And it supposedly according to furman has the same surge suppression as the 3 thousand dollar ones. Either I've found the deal of the century or Im getting conned. Ha I use these . 4000 joules protection and don’t waste my rack space. Belkin Power Strip Surge Protector - 12 AC Multiple Outlets & 8 ft Long Flat Plug Heavy Duty Extension Cord for Home, Office, Travel, Computer Desktop, Laptop & Phone Charging Brick (3,940 Joules) a.co/d/ccZh90Y |
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Post by plinker on Dec 20, 2022 10:28:37 GMT -6
If it doesn't say Tripplite... I recommend these: tripplite.eaton.com/isobar-6-outlet-surge-protector-6-ft-cord-3300-joules-diagnostic-leds~ISOBAR6ULTRANot only is it provide surge protection, it has excellent noise filters. I had a lot of noise creeping in from a shitty switch mode power supply on my room's circuit. This got rid of the noise. I've later found the source of the noise and removed it from the circuit -- but the IsoBar stays!
It appears they have even higher-spec'd models now (e.g., hospital grade).
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 20, 2022 11:18:05 GMT -6
If it doesn't say Tripplite... I recommend these: tripplite.eaton.com/isobar-6-outlet-surge-protector-6-ft-cord-3300-joules-diagnostic-leds~ISOBAR6ULTRANot only is it provide surge protection, it has excellent noise filters. I had a lot of noise creeping in from a shitty switch mode power supply on my room's circuit. This got rid of the noise. I've later found the source of the noise and removed it from the circuit -- but the IsoBar stays!
It appears they have even higher-spec'd models now (e.g., hospital grade).
Tripplite has been a go to for years, the only complaint is you can’t have their voltage regulator in the same room they make an annoying ticking sound. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 20, 2022 14:53:15 GMT -6
If it doesn't say Tripplite... I recommend these: tripplite.eaton.com/isobar-6-outlet-surge-protector-6-ft-cord-3300-joules-diagnostic-leds~ISOBAR6ULTRANot only is it provide surge protection, it has excellent noise filters. I had a lot of noise creeping in from a shitty switch mode power supply on my room's circuit. This got rid of the noise. I've later found the source of the noise and removed it from the circuit -- but the IsoBar stays!
It appears they have even higher-spec'd models now (e.g., hospital grade).
Tripplite has been a go to for years, the only complaint is you can’t have their voltage regulator in the same room they make an annoying ticking sound. Tell me about it. I've got a Tripp-Lite IsoTrans in the room, and it's looouuud. I need to move it to the room next door, but I'm going to have to redo all my power cabling to pull that off. Going to be like a two day project. I can't even remember the last time I had a two HOUR window, much less a two DAY window. |
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