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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 18:37:26 GMT -6
You already know I'd take the Core's over ATC's.. The PSI A23-M's are also high in the running if you can find the $$$'s.
There's always a personal touch to monitors but if you're going to try and beat the LYD 48's or KH310's you'd better prepare that wallet for a good cleaning.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 18:42:39 GMT -6
You already know I'd take the Core's over ATC's.. The PSI A23-M's are also high in the running if you can find the $$$'s. There's always a personal touch to monitors but if you're going to try and beat the LYD 48's or KH310's you'd better prepare that wallet for a good cleaning. The core 7s are about the maximum I can afford now and would prefer to spend less tbh on them but if they beat everything, then my hands are probably tied.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 21:47:19 GMT -6
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Post by RealNoob on Dec 17, 2022 21:56:15 GMT -6
ROFL - AUTHENTIC Yamahas...
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 17, 2022 22:05:24 GMT -6
Well at least the raddles don’t affect the noise. I hate when the noise is affected by raddles. “can also hear some raddles from the inside but doesn’t affect the noise“
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 18, 2022 0:27:05 GMT -6
Oh man, that's incredible.
Dan, I've had good luck (and good service) with Alto Music. They frequently have open-box or B-stock monitors that they actually stand behind as if new.
I ended up getting my KH310s from ProAudioStar. Got a good deal. They're definitely willing to deal.
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Post by christopher on Dec 18, 2022 15:34:59 GMT -6
I’ve long been curious about PSI 14. Studer used to rebrand PSI and these were the broadcast truck things I believe.
Here’s a 2 hour review of budget options I don’t have time to look at
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Post by sean on Dec 18, 2022 15:45:10 GMT -6
I spent a decade on Yamaha HSM80’s and they took an absurd beating…I mean leave the room, ceiling tiles shaking loud playback sessions, and they never failed. JBL 4408A’s last about a week before a tweeter was blown
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2022 21:19:29 GMT -6
I've been living with the JBL LSR 305 mk II for a weekend and mastered an electronic record on them and an old pair of HD 25. I'm not really doing anything differently. They have some horn flare at the top end but otherwise, they're pretty good, like JBL made NS10s. They're more normal than most of the expensive JBLs too.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2022 8:54:22 GMT -6
If you have the budget, the core do seem impressive: talking head no demo but interesting insights design philosophy !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 9:13:48 GMT -6
If you have the budget, the core do seem impressive: talking head no demo but interesting insights design philosophy ! . Horrible distribution here, class d, and ad/da conversion. Dynaudio is a Chinese owned hifi company now. I was advised by a tech to not buy them because of their lack of long term support for their plate amps. Dynaudio did not get back to pro audio dealers I contacted in a reasonable time, referred me to local hifi shops on a list, and didn’t get back to them either. Dan
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 9:27:32 GMT -6
Horrible distribution here, class d, and ad/da conversion. Dynaudio is a Chinese owned hifi company now. I was advised by a tech to not buy them because of their lack of long term support for their plate amps. Dynaudio did not get back to pro audio dealers I contacted in a reasonable time, referred me to local hifi shops on a list, and didn’t get back to them either. Dan You do realise that some of the most expensive and sought after monitors are class D with AD/DA right?
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2022 9:31:47 GMT -6
I think it comes down to design and build quality ?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 22, 2022 9:47:32 GMT -6
Horrible distribution here, class d, and ad/da conversion. Dynaudio is a Chinese owned hifi company now. I was advised by a tech to not buy them because of their lack of long term support for their plate amps. Dynaudio did not get back to pro audio dealers I contacted in a reasonable time, referred me to local hifi shops on a list, and didn’t get back to them either. Dan You do realise that some of the most expensive and sought after monitors are class D with AD/DA right? Well yeah, they are cheap easy to build into a cabinet, add in the power of DSP who wouldn’t use them? Great custom amps are rare these days.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 10:41:00 GMT -6
You do realise that some of the most expensive and sought after monitors are class D with AD/DA right? Well yeah, they are cheap easy to build into a cabinet, add in the power of DSP who wouldn’t use them? Great custom amps are rare these days. Exactly and with good DSP it's simple to phase align and EQ specifically to a room, placement, position or even furniture. There's a desk setting on mine, it works a treat ..
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Post by mrgkeys on Dec 22, 2022 10:53:11 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 10:57:30 GMT -6
Horrible distribution here, class d, and ad/da conversion. Dynaudio is a Chinese owned hifi company now. I was advised by a tech to not buy them because of their lack of long term support for their plate amps. Dynaudio did not get back to pro audio dealers I contacted in a reasonable time, referred me to local hifi shops on a list, and didn’t get back to them either. Dan You do realise that some of the most expensive and sought after monitors are class D with AD/DA right? I don’t care if people fawn over those Genelecs with oval shaped PA woofer and aggressive limiters. I can’t even get Dynaudio to sell me their products, yet alone fix them!
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2022 11:16:43 GMT -6
Dan, was it something you said:Danes can be so sensitive !
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 22, 2022 11:18:25 GMT -6
Well yeah, they are cheap easy to build into a cabinet, add in the power of DSP who wouldn’t use them? Great custom amps are rare these days. Exactly and with good DSP it's simple to phase align and EQ specifically to a room, placement, position or even furniture. There's a desk setting on mine, it works a treat .. DSP can do a lot, but in far too many cases these days it’s used to make crappy drivers useable. Dan sort of bumps into this, in the old days most builders in the pro market understood that they needed to be able to support their customers because in the pro world their are situations that are going to happen and can easily take out a driver. What this meant is even the cheap Tannoy reveals were built with relabeled drivers you could get with a quick call to the likes of Madisound (former client), Parts Express or Solen. These were mostly stock drivers and in some cases custom built on stock motors you could get through either the speaker builder or the driver manufacturer. Now there are so many generic Chinese OEM’s that come and go that a lot of even fairly reputable builders will buy a load of cheap generic surplus drivers use the DSP to make them exceptable, then revise the speaker for their next batch. Anyone in speaker world has noticed that you no longer see the above listed suppliers selling surplus OEM drivers usually sourced from the OEMs. This is because the newer cheaper OEM’s are selling them to other speaker manufacturers. I don’t personally like most Class D amps, I have Class A, A/AB and a couple of thousand watts of class A sitting around. In talking to the guys from a couple of highly regarded builders one of the biggest reasons for using plate amps is the simplicity. It’s right there on the chassis, fairly high output that will run off of fairly low current & the biggie DSP makes protection pretty easy. The flip side of DSP in modern plate amps is its growing use in the world of classic old Speaker world. Man do old JBL’s sound so much better with some really steep x- over filters with phase correction, a little EQ here and there not to mention the ease of dialing in non- asymmetrical filters. DSP can make a poor designer look like a genius ( yeah I’m including myself in that) the one area I won’t use DSP in a studio monitor but I know others seam to like to use it is if my choice of drivers don’t have the same dynamic profile they will apply a little compression to the more dynamic drivers rather than choose a better driver.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 13:18:07 GMT -6
I don’t personally like most Class D amps, I have Class A, A/AB and a couple of thousand watts of class A sitting around. In talking to the guys from a couple of highly regarded builders one of the biggest reasons for using plate amps is the simplicity. It’s right there on the chassis, fairly high output that will run off of fairly low current & the biggie DSP makes protection pretty easy. The flip side of DSP in modern plate amps is its growing use in the world of classic old Speaker world. Man do old JBL’s sound so much better with some really steep x- over filters with phase correction, a little EQ here and there not to mention the ease of dialing in non- asymmetrical filters. DSP can make a poor designer look like a genius ( yeah I’m including myself in that) the one area I won’t use DSP in a studio monitor but I know others seam to like to use it is if my choice of drivers don’t have the same dynamic profile they will apply a little compression to the more dynamic drivers rather than choose a better driver. We're not talking about random OEM drivers made with underpowered amps, these are custom in house built MSP drivers with an amp delivering well over a 1000 Watts in a speaker that weighs about 54lb's each. I understand where Dan is coming from though, if they were to break and Dynaudio isn't doing well on the distribution or parts side I might not buy them either. There's a large distribution network in Europe so it's not an issue for me..
But I don't think for a second I'm missing out just because they have a class D amp and I'd guess that those with KII three's, Mesanovic RTM10's etc. don't care either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 13:55:51 GMT -6
I don’t personally like most Class D amps, I have Class A, A/AB and a couple of thousand watts of class A sitting around. In talking to the guys from a couple of highly regarded builders one of the biggest reasons for using plate amps is the simplicity. It’s right there on the chassis, fairly high output that will run off of fairly low current & the biggie DSP makes protection pretty easy. The flip side of DSP in modern plate amps is its growing use in the world of classic old Speaker world. Man do old JBL’s sound so much better with some really steep x- over filters with phase correction, a little EQ here and there not to mention the ease of dialing in non- asymmetrical filters. DSP can make a poor designer look like a genius ( yeah I’m including myself in that) the one area I won’t use DSP in a studio monitor but I know others seam to like to use it is if my choice of drivers don’t have the same dynamic profile they will apply a little compression to the more dynamic drivers rather than choose a better driver. We're not talking about random OEM drivers made with underpowered amps, these are custom in house built MSP drivers with an amp delivering well over a 1000 Watts in a speaker that weighs about 54lb's each. I understand where Dan is coming from though, if they were to break and Dynaudio isn't doing well on the distribution or parts side I might not buy them either. There's a large distribution network in Europe so it's not an issue for me..
But I don't think for a second I'm missing out just because they have a class D amp and I'd guess that those with KII three's, Mesanovic RTM10's etc. don't care either.
Hedd, PMC, and Dynaudio are doing the smart thing and using off the shelf modules so you can plug in anything you want there if you really want to. The danger is if the DSP crossover breaks and you can't repair it. Not a big deal in a couple hundred dollar pair of speakers but you're stuck having to recreate the crossover yourself then for your expensive ones. For stuff like the JBL LSR 700 series it's being done already with REW and MiniDSP units to use better and sturdier amps than the awful Crown drivecores but for others with way more complex crossovers and manufacturers unwilling or unable to repair, eg Sennheiser with older Neumann Klein and Hummel speakers or Dynaudio with the Airs and the TC Electronics made crossovers, you're just screwed and better off selling them for parts or taking them to an electronic recycling facility. The crazy thing is almost all of those 90s Dynaudio speakers still have working drivers! The amps in the BMs used junk and are what gave out. Meanwhile Questeds and good old KRKs mostly have blown Morel and Focal/JMLabs tweeters.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 22, 2022 14:47:37 GMT -6
All the tech talk problems, makes me think of the simplicity/ benefits of the amphion design approach.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 22, 2022 16:27:31 GMT -6
We're not talking about random OEM drivers made with underpowered amps, these are custom in house built MSP drivers with an amp delivering well over a 1000 Watts in a speaker that weighs about 54lb's each. I understand where Dan is coming from though, if they were to break and Dynaudio isn't doing well on the distribution or parts side I might not buy them either. There's a large distribution network in Europe so it's not an issue for me..
But I don't think for a second I'm missing out just because they have a class D amp and I'd guess that those with KII three's, Mesanovic RTM10's etc. don't care either.
Hedd, PMC, and Dynaudio are doing the smart thing and using off the shelf modules so you can plug in anything you want there if you really want to. The danger is if the DSP crossover breaks and you can't repair it. Not a big deal in a couple hundred dollar pair of speakers but you're stuck having to recreate the crossover yourself then for your expensive ones. For stuff like the JBL LSR 700 series it's being done already with REW and MiniDSP units to use better and sturdier amps than the awful Crown drivecores but for others with way more complex crossovers and manufacturers unwilling or unable to repair, eg Sennheiser with older Neumann Klein and Hummel speakers or Dynaudio with the Airs and the TC Electronics made crossovers, you're just screwed and better off selling them for parts or taking them to an electronic recycling facility. The crazy thing is almost all of those 90s Dynaudio speakers still have working drivers! The amps in the BMs used junk and are what gave out. Meanwhile Questeds and good old KRKs mostly have blown Morel and Focal/JMLabs tweeters. Remember the KRK with the dual 8's and the Cabase tweeter that got discontinued and nobody has reproduced!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 16:37:31 GMT -6
All the tech talk problems, makes me think of the simplicity/ benefits of the amphion design approach. I think this has gone a bit beyond the realms of tech talk, we're entering cork sniffing territory. Genelec's for example are used extensively in post production, film, tv, composition etc. and all of those top tier engineers plus the Hanes etc. must be wrong, right?
The KH310's literally spew with 5 star reviews from DIY producers all the way up to legends and destroy every measurement done on them, but again they must suck for some reason? Who knows.
IME once you get to a certain level they're all good, there's not a single pair I've come across that I couldn't use effectively. The Core's just so happen to fit my room and gave me the information / voicing I was looking for. Although none of them would make or break a song in context.. The defacto answer always seems to be ATC because they're expensive, yes they are excellent but they're not the only excellent option out there. I don't care what people buy, it's entirely personal but c'mon it's not like people don't do good work on other monitors.
P.S I've had my LYD 48's for 8 years and they still run like new, the Core's are built like tanks and there are service centers.
P.P.S I haven't used Amphion, Focal's upper end, Quested or KS Digital so I don't know anything about them..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 16:39:30 GMT -6
All the tech talk problems, makes me think of the simplicity/ benefits of the amphion design approach. You mean base all of your speakers on diy kits, crossover the tweeters dangerously low, and sell them for years bundled with underpowered amplifiers that will blow the tweeter?
Now they sell it with 700w into 4 ohms class d amps... for 2000 fucking dollars. Here's the tweeter blowing a100 inside. It was nothing but two Anaview modules. www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/amphion/27.png
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