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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 15, 2022 14:27:38 GMT -6
I'm looking at a console with these specs: Class A preamp and EQ, Carnhill (OEP) Input transformer. A push-button switch selects the required input (mic/line), and the continuously variable rotary gain control has a range of 50dB on mic. and 24dB on line. All microphone inputs are transformer balanced and floating via a standard 3-pin XLR type female connector. The input impedance is designed for 200-ohm microphones, but will accept other types down to 30 ohms impedance. The minimum input level for 0VU output is -80dBu (approx.0.03mV); the maximum input level is -10dBu (approx. 240mV). If high levels are anticipated, attenuator pads should be used in the mic circuits. Will I have enough gain for music recording purposes? Will I have headroom? Link: Alice 828 mk3 EmRR - This seems like this question might be in your wheelhouse |
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 15, 2022 14:39:00 GMT -6
50 will be fine for most mics. The potential issue would be some dynamics or ribbons on quieter sources.
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Post by bchurch on Dec 15, 2022 14:49:43 GMT -6
The two mics that you hear people most often needing tons of clean gain for are older ribbons and the Shure SM7/7b. That's not to say they're the only two - and it certainly has a lot to do with what you're miking up and from how far. It's not a bad idea to have a few channels of really clean WWG-type preamps for that kind of application. But for 95% of sources, 95% of the time, I'd be willing to wager you'd be more than fine.
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Post by svart on Dec 15, 2022 15:08:42 GMT -6
50 is plenty. I have ribbons and have used them with plenty of preamps that only have 50 or so dB of gain.
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Post by Chad on Dec 15, 2022 15:29:25 GMT -6
Invest in a Soyuz Launcher, Cloudlifter, or Triton Audio FetHead inline preamp (IF and only if you need more gain for ribbons or dynamics).
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 15, 2022 15:35:00 GMT -6
Invest in a Soyuz Launcher, Cloudlifter, or Triton Audio FetHead inline preamp (IF and only if you need more gain for ribbons or dynamics). Yeah I have some of these, very helpful devices. I feel like those gain levels are lower than other pres in my arsenal, but I may just not be used to the language used this company uses to describe things. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 15, 2022 15:45:34 GMT -6
I forget: what pres do you have right now, jacobamerritt? The Chameleon Labs? Anything else? Any compressors or other gain-making devices?
Personally, I like having at least a couple pres around that can put out more than 50dB, and I generally prefer a good pre to a Cloudlifter or FEThead situation. Never tried the Soyuz launcher. Right now within my line of sight I have a Serrano 84 (Vintage cap) going into a Stam 1073MPA, and I'm giving it 55dB of gain. That's for VO for video, boomed just out of frame. It's not terribly unusual for me to use more than 50dB of gain.
Of course, you can pick up more gain from other devices if you like their sound: line amps on your audio interface, gain from a compressor, etc. But still, if that console works well for you, I would just hang on to a couple of outboard pres with more gain just in case you need it.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 15, 2022 15:59:00 GMT -6
50 dB should be fine, a couple of outboard pres makes it even easier and investing in a booster would pretty much cover everything.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 15, 2022 16:46:02 GMT -6
It doesn’t mean it’s 50, it means that’s the adjustment range. There’s easily some ‘free’ transformer and minimum active gain. Elsewhere it says it’ll do 80dB.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 15, 2022 16:54:49 GMT -6
I forget: what pres do you have right now, jacobamerritt ? The Chameleon Labs? Anything else? Any compressors or other gain-making devices?
Personally, I like having at least a couple pres around that can put out more than 50dB, and I generally prefer a good pre to a Cloudlifter or FEThead situation. Never tried the Soyuz launcher. Right now within my line of sight I have a Serrano 84 (Vintage cap) going into a Stam 1073MPA, and I'm giving it 55dB of gain. That's for VO for video, boomed just out of frame. It's not terribly unusual for me to use more than 50dB of gain.
Of course, you can pick up more gain from other devices if you like their sound: line amps on your audio interface, gain from a compressor, etc. But still, if that console works well for you, I would just hang on to a couple of outboard pres with more gain just in case you need it.
UA 4-710D Weight Tank WT-72 Manley Core IAA QPP (4 Channels) Vintech Dual 72 Lindell 18xs CL 7602 X 2 So 15 Decent pres (Lots of compressors and EQ in the rack and 500 as well) |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 15, 2022 18:12:05 GMT -6
I forget: what pres do you have right now, jacobamerritt ? The Chameleon Labs? Anything else? Any compressors or other gain-making devices?
Personally, I like having at least a couple pres around that can put out more than 50dB, and I generally prefer a good pre to a Cloudlifter or FEThead situation. Never tried the Soyuz launcher. Right now within my line of sight I have a Serrano 84 (Vintage cap) going into a Stam 1073MPA, and I'm giving it 55dB of gain. That's for VO for video, boomed just out of frame. It's not terribly unusual for me to use more than 50dB of gain.
Of course, you can pick up more gain from other devices if you like their sound: line amps on your audio interface, gain from a compressor, etc. But still, if that console works well for you, I would just hang on to a couple of outboard pres with more gain just in case you need it.
UA 4-710D Weight Tank WT-72 Manley Core IAA QPP (4 Channels) Vintech Dual 72 Lindell 18xs CL 7602 X 2 So 15 Decent pres (Lots of compressors and EQ in the rack and 500 as well) Cool, nice stuff! So are you contemplating selling something off to pay for the board, or adding the board on top of what you’ve already got? |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2022 19:23:11 GMT -6
So what are you interested in Mark ?  |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 15, 2022 19:34:14 GMT -6
Cool, nice stuff! So are you contemplating selling something off to pay for the board, or adding the board on top of what you’ve already got? I am certainly considering it. If anything catches your eye, let me know!  |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 15, 2022 21:00:46 GMT -6
Cool, nice stuff! So are you contemplating selling something off to pay for the board, or adding the board on top of what you’ve already got? I am certainly considering it. If anything catches your eye, let me know! Gotcha! I may well send you a PM at some point in the near future... I would say out of that batch, you might want to keep at least two pres that can give you more than 50dB of clean gain. Whether that's the Vintech, the CL units, or the IAA. Even if it's not the genre you typically record, Murphy's Law states that the first month after you sell all those pres, you will be contacted by a classical musician asking you to track a live recital in three days, and willing to pay you good money to do it. Murphy was an optimist. |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 15, 2022 21:07:56 GMT -6
Gotcha! I may well send you a PM at some point in the near future... I would say out of that batch, you might want to keep at least two pres that can give you more than 50dB of clean gain. Whether that's the Vintech, the CL units, or the IAA. Even if it's not the genre you typically record, Murphy's Law states that the first month after you sell all those pres, you will be contacted by a classical musician asking you to track a live recital in three days, and willing to pay you good money to do it. Murphy was an optimist. Haha yes indeed. I purposely have kept a pretty eclectic bunch of preamps over the past 10 years to have various options. I just sold off my nice API 312 clones and Langevin DVC (that one hurt a little). Digging deeper, it seems my concerns about the gain on the console are just a result of my ignorance about electrical engineering. Ha! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 15, 2022 21:17:39 GMT -6
Gotcha! I may well send you a PM at some point in the near future... I would say out of that batch, you might want to keep at least two pres that can give you more than 50dB of clean gain. Whether that's the Vintech, the CL units, or the IAA. Even if it's not the genre you typically record, Murphy's Law states that the first month after you sell all those pres, you will be contacted by a classical musician asking you to track a live recital in three days, and willing to pay you good money to do it. Murphy was an optimist. Haha yes indeed. I purposely have kept a pretty eclectic bunch of preamps over the past 10 years to have various options. I just sold off my nice API 312 clones and Langevin DVC (that one hurt a little). Digging deeper, it seems my concerns about the gain on the console are just a result of my ignorance about electrical engineering. Ha! Have you gotten a quote on the board? Curious what these are going for and on delivery time. |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 16, 2022 11:46:28 GMT -6
So I've been emailing with Ted Fletcher directly with LOTS of questions about the Alice 828. Hes very affable and thorough! Regarding the gain he says-
'The input gain of the mono channel has enormous range, it's happy with any mics I know of.'
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Post by Ward on Dec 16, 2022 17:00:09 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever used more than 50db . . . maybe once with the old 44 on a distant source. There's always clip gain to boost them up anyhow!
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