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Post by schlep on Dec 14, 2022 17:36:45 GMT -6
Hi all -
Whom among us generally prefers a LDC over a SDC for recording steel string acoustic guitar ? Rationale ?
In recording strumming I'm fiding transient response a bit much on the high strigs when strummed, more specifically when 'back strumming', or 'upstrumming'.
The less sensitive transient response of the LDC seems to be the ticket so it got me to thinking about throwing this question out there for everyone's thoughts / opinions / experiences.
There are of course variances in playing technique and tonality of different acoustic guitars / strings, but I'm asking about general preferences; this a broad stroke, I know : )
Thanks
Craig
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Post by M57 on Dec 14, 2022 17:44:22 GMT -6
For me it's a matter of function.. If the tune is guitar driven, I tend to favor two mics, an LDC "over shoulder" and an equidistant SDC aimed at the body below the high frets. Otherwise just a lone SDC aimed similarly, but a little closer.
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Post by drumsound on Dec 14, 2022 18:30:10 GMT -6
It's production based for me.
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 14, 2022 18:39:23 GMT -6
I favor LDC over SDC for just about everything, acoustic guitar especially. For whatever reason I just generally thing LDC’s sound better. I don’t have a great sounding room (but have recorded in plenty of great rooms), so my mic choice most days is determined by trying to mitigate the problems with my room.
My weapon of choice at the moment is a Gefell umt70, usually pointed somewhere near the 12th fret or where the neck meets the body.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 14, 2022 19:32:29 GMT -6
Almost always SDC, I've got some very flat ones that handle hard strumming well. Sometimes though that's overall better to me with a ribbon. I almost never like what I hear out of an LDC I put anywhere near an acoustic. I must be ok with it many times when it's others work and I don't know. But there's a lotta shitty acoustic guitar sounds on big records!
Related, I don't like an LDC on distorted guitar amps. only really when it's super clean. Bass amps are fine.
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Post by schlep on Dec 14, 2022 19:58:17 GMT -6
@ EmRR - what SDCs with a flat freq response are you referring to below ? Thx “Almost always SDC, I've got some very flat ones that handle hard strumming well. Sometimes that's better to me with a ribbon.” |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 14, 2022 20:11:19 GMT -6
EmRR - what SDCs with a flat freq response are you referring to below ? Thx “Almost always SDC, I've got some very flat ones that handle hard strumming well.” KM131, MKH20, MKH30, MKH40. The KM131 is particularly both soft and detailed sounding. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 14, 2022 20:22:39 GMT -6
I keep a Gefell UM70 set up to do almost all of my songwriting, demo, and preproduction work. If I played the parts cleanly, acoustic guitars recorded with it will get used sometimes. I also have a Gefell M295 SDC and it is stellar on acoustics and use it more.
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Post by robo on Dec 14, 2022 20:36:36 GMT -6
If I’ve got a quiver of guitars handy in a studio then a km84 (or something close) will work for anything. Transformerless SDC’s can be better for fingerpicked stuff though.
At home I’ve got two mediocre acoustics and a bunch of mics, so I color the guitar tone with the mic mostly. I use LDC’s, SDC’s, ribbons, dynamics. It’s one of the few spots I actually like an SM57.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 14, 2022 20:50:36 GMT -6
I keep a Gefell UM70 set up to do almost all of my songwriting, demo, and preproduction work. If I played the parts cleanly, acoustic guitars recorded with it will get used sometimes. I also have a Gefell M295 SDC and it is stellar on acoustics and use it more. I am envious. I was thinking about the UM70 with this post. Such a clear LDC and yet with an M7 capsule as well. I sold my two of these in the 90s because I had no forums then to tell me how stupid that would be! |
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 14, 2022 21:10:07 GMT -6
I keep a Gefell UM70 set up to do almost all of my songwriting, demo, and preproduction work. If I played the parts cleanly, acoustic guitars recorded with it will get used sometimes. I also have a Gefell M295 SDC and it is stellar on acoustics and use it more. I am envious. I was thinking about the UM70 with this post. Such a clear LDC and yet with an M7 capsule as well. I sold my two of these in the 90s because I had no forums then to tell me how stupid that would be! It was people on this forum and especially drbill and ericn IIRC who were really singing the praises of Gefell mics and the older, UM70 in particular. It is a great mic. I have an M92.1s in addition to the M295 and UM70. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Dec 14, 2022 21:35:08 GMT -6
I am envious. I was thinking about the UM70 with this post. Such a clear LDC and yet with an M7 capsule as well. I sold my two of these in the 90s because I had no forums then to tell me how stupid that would be! It was people on this forum and especially drbill and ericn IIRC who were really singing the praises of Gefell mics and the older, UM70 in particular. It is a great mic. I have an M92.1s in addition to the M295 and UM70. The UM70 is the bargain SDC, it can hang with the big boy SDC’s and won’t embarrass you. Once again it’s all about the capsule and even with modern diaphragm material it’s one of the best M7 capsules made today, because Gefell never forgot how to make an M7. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 14, 2022 23:07:01 GMT -6
I sold my two of these in the 90s because I had no forums then to tell me how stupid that would be! You need any help with that now??  Seriously, so sorry man. Maybe you'll have a nice pair somewhere in your future. Fingers crossed.... |
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 15, 2022 3:14:41 GMT -6
Arrangement is my deciding factor. If I record my Martin D18 with my Wunder CM7 into a Coil CA-70 then there’s only just enough room to add a vocal it sounds so huge (slight exaggeration ) If I want it to fit into a normally busy band arrangement then I reach for my vintage AKG 451E into a BAE 1073 and it’s just perfect - nothing fancy I just point it at about the 15th fret (ish) and I’m good to go. |
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Post by crillemannen on Dec 15, 2022 11:25:05 GMT -6
I really enjoyed my U47 in Omni on acoustic guitar. Large, nice topend but the slower transient response really made it sound awesome. Sold it though so I do need to experiment a bit. I do have the new GAP Ela m251 and also a pair of km86,84s.
Joel over at GS posted a comparison and I really enjoyed his Upton on guitar so that sounds very promising.
But I do agree that it is production based. For a busy arrangement I'd definitely reach for a KM84 first. Slower acoustic centric music a LDC is usually nice
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 15, 2022 11:54:10 GMT -6
I like SDC's for very strummy guitar parts in songs with lots of instruments. I like LDC's for singer/songwriter type tracks or tracks with the acoustic as the main focus instrument.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2022 9:24:43 GMT -6
You know what, I'm not a massive fan of the U67 on vocals most of the time but I think it's one of the best instrument mic's ever made. Everything just sounds so smooth yet hi-fi..
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Post by tkaitkai on Dec 23, 2022 9:45:51 GMT -6
You know what, I'm not a massive fan of the U67 on vocals most of the time but I think it's one of the best instrument mic's ever made. Everything just sounds so smooth yet hi-fi.. My ear almost always gravitates towards 67s and 87s for acoustic guitar. It just sounds right to me. Been meaning to pick up a Warm, 3U Warbler, or Serrano for this exact purpose. |
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Post by antipodesjosh on Dec 23, 2022 11:03:38 GMT -6
I’ve had good results with the Vanguard v13 on acoustic, and also the Beesneez 87.
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Post by ragan on Dec 23, 2022 11:04:15 GMT -6
I always use LDC for acoustic. A 67 over my right shoulder facing down and another LDC in front, facing the neck body joint. I use Auto Align on the two mics.
Tried a million things over the years and this method is king for me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2022 11:07:39 GMT -6
I always use LDC for acoustic. A 67 over my right shoulder facing down and another LDC in front, facing the neck body joint. I use Auto Align on the two mics. Tried a million things over the years and this method is king for me. I always record in mono or dual track (like electrics) because I'm a phase wimp.. Although yeah, 67 on acoustic geetar every time.
I'll look into auto align, cheers.
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Post by carymiller on Dec 23, 2022 13:00:07 GMT -6
Hi all - Whom among us generally prefers a LDC over a SDC for recording steel string acoustic guitar ? Rationale ? In recording strumming I'm fiding transient response a bit much on the high strigs when strummed, more specifically when 'back strumming', or 'upstrumming'. The less sensitive transient response of the LDC seems to be the ticket so it got me to thinking about throwing this question out there for everyone's thoughts / opinions / experiences. There are of course variances in playing technique and tonality of different acoustic guitars / strings, but I'm asking about general preferences; this a broad stroke, I know : ) Thanks Craig For Tube LCD's... I tend to favor M49 style microphones or U67 style microphones on acoustic guitar. They're both different...but the mids tend to sit right for me with those designs. U47/U48 style mics can sound great too, but the bumped up low-end can be too much without EQ sometimes (depends on the acoustic guitar). I confess I've only used an ELAM 251 style mic on vocals (Soundelux back in 2004, and an Advanced Audio M 251 recently), never used one on an acoustic, but it might work. I just think again, there's something a bit more full-bodied about an M49 style mic or a U67. I think a C12 style mic could also work, if the guitar isn't too strident and you want something where the upper mids and high-end response are the focus in a denser mix. I would think about these kinds of mics as EQs almost. Because they all have different curves. With FET style mics.... A FET47 style mic or U87 Style Mic can be great paired with a Transformer based design for a Preamp...or a nice Tube based design. I find they work more like M49s and U67s in that capacity. But since they lack tubes, you really want to beef them up with a nice preamp if possible. A 414 style mic can also work if you want that upper mid thing to highs again (which is why I think a C12 could work since they're related in design). Think about the context of a mix...and choose the mics around how the curve will fit that mix. Best advice I can give. Polar Patterns: I would favor Figure 8 if you need a little room sound...and Cardiod if you want isolation. |
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