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Post by ab101 on Dec 7, 2022 9:46:42 GMT -6
The Brute is very forgiving, as I recall. But it’s been a minute. You can definitely mess up a vocal with an LA4A. They don’t sound good clipping on vocals and the release is slow enough that if you over compress a line of a vocal it may not recover fully by the next one, adding a weird envelope. (Guess who learned on one? This guy.) Yeah - a vocal tracking comp IMO should be hard to eff up. And two knobs and a slower attack is a good start. I think the brute is called something else these days. It is called the Tree Audio L/C1.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 7, 2022 9:50:25 GMT -6
In that price range, I'd pick up a used Buzz Audio Essence. And the original Buzz Audio SOC 1.1 two channel is still a great compressor. Here is one on reverb (do not know the seller), and perhaps with an offer it could be had for less. This puts it at a competitive price with the Lindell per channel: reverb.com/item/63365528-buzz-audio-soc-1-1-compressor-stereo-or-dual-mono(Vintage King also has a used one.)
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Post by seawell on Dec 7, 2022 13:25:55 GMT -6
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 8, 2022 6:16:27 GMT -6
Martin John Butler, If you are going for the LA2A sound, I highly recommend the Audio-Scape Opto. I have one here and it’s gorgeous sounding; thick, open, and vibey. Yes, it’s a little more expensive than the LiN2A. I also have their VComp, but find that more specific. I can run a vocal through both for you if you’d like. I think plug-ins can do a good job, but there is something more three dimensional about hardware. That said, you are always better off getting a good piece of hard ware than going cheap. For plugins, I think the UAD LA2A Grey is very good. For a cleaner take, the Softube Summit TLA100 is one of my favorites, and the one piece of outboard gear I’m really pining for. Lol. Arturia has a really nice STA Level plug.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 8, 2022 6:37:35 GMT -6
There’s a vcomp on gs.
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Post by tkaitkai on Dec 8, 2022 14:08:54 GMT -6
I know this doesn't matter in the slightest, but I actually really like the looks of that Lindell piece. Very classy. That aside, Martin John Butler, I feel like it's pretty hard to go wrong with an LA2A or LA3A. I had the Golden Age LA3A copy for a few years and it was almost impossible to mess up — even if you went way overboard, the worst that would happen is it would maybe sound a tad too over compressed, and you'd get occasional spikes on abrupt transients (easily resolvable with a quick edit). But you had to SERIOUSLY abuse it to get to that point. In general, you could pretty much slam it and it'd be fine. An LA2A will obviously be a little slower, but even then, you can still push them pretty hard.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 8, 2022 18:33:58 GMT -6
I'd probably jump on the Stam 3A you posted Seawell, but I don't have a lunchbox. I like the sound of the Audio-Scape 2A, but to be honest, I like the Stam SA2A a little more. I'd jump on that if it was more affordable.
I had some other priorities this month including some medical bills, otherwise I'd go for one of the higher end pieces. Still, I really miss having an LA2A when tracking, so i'll probably get something soon. I have a little time to figure it out though because I need to sell some things first to cover costs.
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Post by niklas1073 on Apr 24, 2023 7:16:49 GMT -6
Just stumbled across the LIN2a while googling around, hadn't seen it before. Then I found this oldish thread.
Just out of curiosity, did anybody end up trying one out? how did it sound? Anyone compared it with some proven great units? I'm not looking into buying one. Just curious as a huge La2a fan. Interested in hearing how new units on the market compare, especially as there are fewer opto clones out there than fets.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 24, 2023 13:26:26 GMT -6
I would like to hear from anyone who's tried it.
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Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2023 14:08:41 GMT -6
I would like to hear from anyone who's tried it. The Lin Audio is an INCREDIBLE value, and sounds MUCH better than the Warm or KT, even sounds snappier (a feat for an optical!) than the Universal Audio teletronix clone. What else would you consider? like Vincent said, the Audioscape Opto is also an incredible value. And don't forget the stam SA2a. The original. I have three different T4 cells for one, 2 from Bill at Kenetek. And WOWZERS, that makes a big difference! So it seems to me you have threee great options for under a grand. And all three will tick every box when it comes to vocals, bass and even DI guitar.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 24, 2023 17:43:25 GMT -6
Thanks Ward. If I ever get out from under the cloud that's been following me lately, I'll check it out.
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Post by robschnapf on Apr 25, 2023 5:36:13 GMT -6
Is 500 series out?
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Post by Ward on Apr 25, 2023 16:31:59 GMT -6
The Lin Audio is an INCREDIBLE value, and sounds MUCH better than the Warm or KT, even sounds snappier (a feat for an optical!) than the Universal Audio teletronix clone. What else would you consider? like Vincent said, the Audioscape Opto is also an incredible value. And don't forget the stam SA2a. The original. I have three different T4 cells for one, 2 from Bill at Kenetek. And WOWZERS, that makes a big difference! So it seems to me you have threee great options for under a grand. And all three will tick every box when it comes to vocals, bass and even DI guitar. or you can just move onto modern, thermally stable, more consistent technology like a good smooth VCA comp or modern digital instead of relying on optical sensor binning UGH . . . VCA = modern? For 1975 maybe. The VCA smackdown and slow recovery is just something that seems useless to me. It's the exact opposite of what I want. But that's just my own personal opinion. I agree with a lot of your positions and opinion on gear, but we don't align on this one. Things that have stood the test of time: • Tube microphone designs, like the U47 U67 M49 C12 ELAM251 Sony 37 • Optical comp designs like the LA2a LA3a LA4 CL1b • Vari-Mu comps (tube again) like the Fairchild, Gates, Federal, • Tube microphone preamps • FET limiters. Old and crusty designs that capture sound the way we hear it. Then we stick it in the box, and maybe insert more crusty old curmudgeonly gear in the inserts of the mix. JMHO . . . and opinions vary!
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Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2023 16:48:12 GMT -6
or you can just move onto modern, thermally stable, more consistent technology like a good smooth VCA comp or modern digital instead of relying on optical sensor binning UGH . . . VCA = modern? For 1975 maybe. The VCA smackdown and slow recovery is just something that seems useless to me. It's the exact opposite of what I want. But that's just my own personal opinion. I agree with a lot of your positions and opinion on gear, but we don't align on this one. Things that have stood the test of time: • Tube microphone designs, like the U47 U67 M49 C12 ELAM251 Sony 37 • Optical comp designs like the LA2a LA3a LA4 CL1b • Vari-Mu comps (tube again) like the Fairchild, Gates, Federal, • Tube microphone preamps • FET limiters. Old and crusty designs that capture sound the way we hear it. Then we stick it in the box, and maybe insert more crusty old curmudgeonly gear in the inserts of the mix. JMHO . . . and opinions vary! Well those Aphex VCA’s sure don’t sound slow or sloppy 😁. I think VCA “ modern in the sense that every modern studio has a SSL Bus comp clone across the 2 bus. Yeah this is exactly what a phone call between me and Ward is like.
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Post by Ward on Apr 26, 2023 8:33:08 GMT -6
SNIP slow or sloppy 😁. I think VCA “ modern in the sense that every modern studio has a SSL Bus comp clone across the 2 bus. Yeah this is exactly what a phone call between me and Ward is like. 100% true. Two colleagues who may not always agree but ALWAYS RESPECT each other's viewpoint. And yes, the SSL buss comp clones are an industry and I have a couple of them here!
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 26, 2023 9:11:52 GMT -6
Not sure if you’re looking at 500 series, but this is a good one to consider. Check out the Tegeler Vocal Leveler. It’s a 500 series, but sounds really good and hard to mess up. There is one for $600 on Reverb right now.
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Post by jonhaber on Apr 26, 2023 11:19:19 GMT -6
Great video here
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 12:06:47 GMT -6
or you can just move onto modern, thermally stable, more consistent technology like a good smooth VCA comp or modern digital instead of relying on optical sensor binning UGH . . . VCA = modern? For 1975 maybe. The VCA smackdown and slow recovery is just something that seems useless to me. It's the exact opposite of what I want. But that's just my own personal opinion. I agree with a lot of your positions and opinion on gear, but we don't align on this one. Things that have stood the test of time: • Tube microphone designs, like the U47 U67 M49 C12 ELAM251 Sony 37 • Optical comp designs like the LA2a LA3a LA4 CL1b • Vari-Mu comps (tube again) like the Fairchild, Gates, Federal, • Tube microphone preamps • FET limiters. Old and crusty designs that capture sound the way we hear it. Then we stick it in the box, and maybe insert more crusty old curmudgeonly gear in the inserts of the mix. JMHO . . . and opinions vary! THAT Corp solved most of the practical problems with VCAs. The problem is the typical VCA compressor designers and manufacturers have always just used canned simple sidechains including DBX and SSL while Aphex, GML, and the various "auto" compressors used much more complex methods. Unfortunately both digital and analog want to be ersatzes of over 50 year old technology now while the better or more controllable stuff is harder to find or discontinued. It's the same as most feedback compressors usually beating feedforward in the real world. Feedforward can emulate feedback and provide even better control if you have consistently behaving parts like VCAs. That just puts the onus onto the designer in the sidechain and most of the simple solutions they came up with beyond a dbx 160 sounded like shit with fixed time constants and single capacitor smoothing filters; there was no self-correction of the control circuitry.
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Post by Ward on Apr 26, 2023 12:32:03 GMT -6
Well dan, sadly when I think 'VCA' my brain adds "most of the simple solutions they came up with beyond a dbx 160 sounded like shit with fixed time constants and single capacitor smoothing filters; there was no self-correction of the control circuitry." And then the reaction is UGH
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2023 13:31:34 GMT -6
Well dan, sadly when I think 'VCA' my brain adds "most of the simple solutions they came up with beyond a dbx 160 sounded like shit with fixed time constants and single capacitor smoothing filters; there was no self-correction of the control circuitry." And then the reaction is UGH A big part of this is outside of recording there is no demand for VCA’s with the advent of digital. Gone are the days of giant digitally controlled analog matrix’s or Midas XL series with a VCA on every Channel. The lack of large scale demand means very little money in developing the next generation of VCA’s for a company like THAT.
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Post by averagebear6 on Aug 30, 2023 10:34:59 GMT -6
First choice is by far Stam Audio SA2A, but the budget isn't there now, so I'm leaning towards the Lindell LiN2A. Had a pair of Klark Teknik's, couldn't return them quick enough.
They need to create a Stam Card (credit card!)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 30, 2023 11:39:18 GMT -6
Since receiving my $102,000 medical bill, and having to pay for 20% of that, I've been using the UA 176 plug-in. Damn, it's REALLY good. The Retro 176 is becoming my GAS compressor lately.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2023 13:07:52 GMT -6
Well dan, sadly when I think 'VCA' my brain adds "most of the simple solutions they came up with beyond a dbx 160 sounded like shit with fixed time constants and single capacitor smoothing filters; there was no self-correction of the control circuitry." And then the reaction is UGH A big part of this is outside of recording there is no demand for VCA’s with the advent of digital. Gone are the days of giant digitally controlled analog matrix’s or Midas XL series with a VCA on every Channel. The lack of large scale demand means very little money in developing the next generation of VCA’s for a company like THAT. The new thing in compressors is using ics that have prematched transistors, analog multipliers, and other parts to make discrete vcas as used by Elysia, Anamod, Kush, Daking, and Little Labs. These have better consistency than jfets and optical sensors. The bad thing is noise is not nearly as good as off the shelf vcas. They’re not going to beat the dangerous compressor or smart c2. There’s also a lot of confused design vca compressors now with peak/rms and feedforward/feedback switches with stupid extra features and poorly written manuals suggesting that their designers, product managers, or employees don’t really know how compressors work or who their target audience is. Then there are all the compressors and reverbs made by guys who have never successively used a reverb nor a compressor.
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Post by copperx on Aug 30, 2023 13:51:53 GMT -6
There’s also a lot of confused design vca compressors now with peak/rms and feedforward/feedback switches with stupid extra features and poorly written manuals suggesting that their designers, product managers, or employees don’t really know how compressors work or who their target audience is. This feels like a direct attack against the Rupert Neve 543 . Or was it against the Tonelux TX5C?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2023 14:15:22 GMT -6
There’s also a lot of confused design vca compressors now with peak/rms and feedforward/feedback switches with stupid extra features and poorly written manuals suggesting that their designers, product managers, or employees don’t really know how compressors work or who their target audience is. This feels like a direct attack against the Rupert Neve 543 . Or was it against the Tonelux TX5C? The RND, Vertigo, SSL Bus+, DMG Compassion, and Tone Projects Unisum vca and digital compressors. RMS is used to smooth the response of many compressors. You’d need totally different settings for rms or peak. Feedforward and feedback need wholly different internal transfer curves to get similar ratios. Feedback is also mathematically equivalent to feedforward with certain level dependent ratio, attack, and release. You can’t simply switch between them without having different transfer curves. Molot GE does it best at keeping the same ratio but I still think it works better in feedback mode. Paul Wolff pretty much said the API vcas have the feedforward for people who do stupid shit to their sound (mis)using ssl compressors. The old ssl compressors aren’t really that flexible. Diff ratios have diff sweet spots. The current made in China and their own digital ones are ass.
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