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Post by bchurch on Nov 17, 2022 9:18:37 GMT -6
Looking through the slew of inbound marketing emails I tend to breeze past, something's dawned on me...
How many more hardware SSL G-Comp clones can the market really support?
I say this as somebody who runs not only an actual SSL bus compressor, but two other very good clones (my Stam sa-4000-5 mk ii is my go-to). And happy to tap in AO BusterSE if I need more.
And as we speak, SSL themselves are selling their 500 series version for $1300. But you've got two dozen clones floating around out there, more if you count the DIY options.
So I ask: how much glue is too much glue? They're handy comps, yes. But I also think their importance or 'magical' ability to transform mixes is more than just simply 'overhyped'.
Of course, it's not just the E/G-comps - there's so many LA2A/1176 variants out there as well. But right now, it's feeling like we've reached an oversaturation point. Discuss.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 9:26:39 GMT -6
How Much Glue is Too Much Glue? - Probably when you start to feel dizzy? Am I talking in a high pitched voice toward the end? Umm.. Apart from that, I have an SSL G-Comp and I really like it. Hopefully SSL will make a cheaper clone so I can get another.. So, no let's keep 'em coming  .. |
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Post by bchurch on Nov 17, 2022 9:50:39 GMT -6
I mean, $1300 for a 500 series version from SSL themselves is pretty dirt cheap. I haven't actually heard those - these are the newer ones that are being produced in the same manner as their other recent "dark gray / all caps" look. And I'd be surprised if they don't try and really move a lot of Bus+ units for below MAP heading into EOY.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 17, 2022 10:55:45 GMT -6
I guess the market will decide, if any unit doesn’t sell, manufacturing will stop ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 11:07:12 GMT -6
I mean, $1300 for a 500 series version from SSL themselves is pretty dirt cheap. I haven't actually heard those - these are the newer ones that are being produced in the same manner as their other recent "dark gray / all caps" look. And I'd be surprised if they don't try and really move a lot of Bus+ units for below MAP heading into EOY. It is until you've spent your studio budget .. The 500 series is good, to be fair so is the cutdown version in the SSL Big Six. |
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Post by bchurch on Nov 17, 2022 12:09:35 GMT -6
It is until you've spent your studio budget .. The 500 series is good, to be fair so is the cutdown version in the SSL Big Six. I'm really quite partial to the Stam mk-ii. The Blackmer 202 VCA reproduction is stellar - my ears just gravitate more to those over the 215x/8x in the G series. It's more 'grabby', closer to a DBX 160vu kinda vibe. Bear in mind, I'm not mixing Adele records over here. THD? Noise? Pumping? Don't threaten me with a good time. |
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Post by svart on Nov 17, 2022 12:21:03 GMT -6
Capitalistic competition in the marketplace. Even SSL is reducing their prices to keep up with all the clones out there instead of getting litigious.
Seriously though, I'm pretty surprised that they never followed a legal path against anyone doing clones of their products.
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2022 13:35:05 GMT -6
Everyone should have at least one Buss comp. There's a really REALLY inexpensive high quality one that's regularly on the market from a certain company that interacts here a fair bit. LOL
Apart from that glue? There are other options. I still love what my old Focusrite Red3 does to a mx. compression and limiting. If an SSL Busscomp flattens and broadens a mix, then the Red 3 thrusts it outwards.
as for LA2a clones/repros? I'll take the V-Comp or the Retro clone any day over an LA2a on vocals. Or a CL1b
The LA2a/clones are great on bass and some singers.
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Post by copperx on Nov 17, 2022 13:43:42 GMT -6
Not related to the G Bus compressor, but when I read the title, I immediately thought of the Manley Vari-Mu. That thing will put serious thick, gooey glue all over whatever you pass through. That's what I call too much glue. Although it can sound good on drums, synths, and even background vocals.
If you need to smear a thick layer of butter over something, the Vari Mu isn't overhyped, and no plugin in the world will have the same effect. It does have that "magical" ability.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 13:48:10 GMT -6
Capitalistic competition in the marketplace. Even SSL is reducing their prices to keep up with all the clones out there instead of getting litigious. Seriously though, I'm pretty surprised that they never followed a legal path against anyone doing clones of their products. What are you talking about? SSL doesn't exist anymore as a hardware manufacturer and raised the prices on their 500 series gear when they switched to Chinese OEMs. |
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Post by svart on Nov 17, 2022 14:19:55 GMT -6
Capitalistic competition in the marketplace. Even SSL is reducing their prices to keep up with all the clones out there instead of getting litigious. Seriously though, I'm pretty surprised that they never followed a legal path against anyone doing clones of their products. What are you talking about? SSL doesn't exist anymore as a hardware manufacturer and raised the prices on their 500 series gear when they switched to Chinese OEMs. Not sure what you mean.. They have a range of mixers, interfaces, etc. They now have their bus compressor available for 1200$ now when it was 3K$+ before.. Everyone costs more now due to pandemic shortages.. But overall, SSL even making a cheaper (albeit 500 series) version of their 3K$+ bus compressor is almost entirely due to competitive pressures. |
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Post by bchurch on Nov 17, 2022 14:30:53 GMT -6
Capitalistic competition in the marketplace. Even SSL is reducing their prices to keep up with all the clones out there instead of getting litigious. Seriously though, I'm pretty surprised that they never followed a legal path against anyone doing clones of their products. Probably a very messy, tangled web of international copyrights / patents, especially when the people making the clones-of-clones have the plausible deniability of "we're just improving upon a schematic that exists in the public domain". That doesn't make it right - just next to impossible to exact any sort of legal remedy. Whatever the logo is on the fascia (or GUI), I think the original point I was edging towards was "have we reached a point where this magical, mystical 'glue' compressor has become a little too available?" Whether I was designing circuits or hammering out code, I'd likely not be saying, "hey, we should be emulating the compressor from the SSL 4KG's center section! Thar's gold in them thar hills!" |
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Post by svart on Nov 17, 2022 14:36:12 GMT -6
Capitalistic competition in the marketplace. Even SSL is reducing their prices to keep up with all the clones out there instead of getting litigious. Seriously though, I'm pretty surprised that they never followed a legal path against anyone doing clones of their products. Probably a very messy, tangled web of international copyrights / patents, especially when the people making the clones-of-clones have the plausible deniability of "we're just improving upon a schematic that exists in the public domain". That doesn't make it right - just next to impossible to exact any sort of legal remedy. Whatever the logo is on the fascia (or GUI), I think the original point I was edging towards was "have we reached a point where this magical, mystical 'glue' compressor has become a little too available?" Whether I was designing circuits or hammering out code, I'd likely not be saying, "hey, we should be emulating the compressor from the SSL 4KG's center section! Thar's gold in them thar hills!" I like what the "SSL bus compressor sound" is and what it does for my mixes. What I don't hear is enough difference between the plugs or the hardware to care which one I use. I have the SSL brand bus comp plugin and it works great. No need to bother with anything else at this point. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 14:45:58 GMT -6
What are you talking about? SSL doesn't exist anymore as a hardware manufacturer and raised the prices on their 500 series gear when they switched to Chinese OEMs. Not sure what you mean.. They have a range of mixers, interfaces, etc. They now have their bus compressor available for 1200$ now when it was 3K$+ before.. Everyone costs more now due to pandemic shortages.. But overall, SSL even making a cheaper (albeit 500 series) version of their 3K$+ bus compressor is almost entirely due to competitive pressures. "SSL" doesn't exist anymore. Audiotonix doesn't make their own crap anymore so now they have to charge more because they use an OEM and are also shipping it from China to the UK to where ever. They've been trying and failing to break into the prosumer market for 20 years and now are owned by a private equity conglomerate and cost more than the Smart and Dangerous Compressors. What they are selling is decidedly not "their bus compressor." It is neither the fx g384 nor the x-logic. The original 500 series unit sounded and behaved worse and what they are selling now is a different product from the original unit. the current one is made by OEMs in China. As for the new SSL Bus+, who the hell knows? It is priced the same as the still made in the UK Smart C2 and the made in the USA Dangerous Compressor and various USA made SSL clones, which will surely be closer to the original and may have better QC (parts binning, independent measurements, burn in, etc) than whatever is being made at a Chinese boardhouse now and assembled at a Chinese OEM WITH DIGITAL PARTS in it that there is no way on God's green earth Audiotonix will fix in 10 years. They'll just throw away the pcb and give you a new one if it's under warranty for a couple of years. SSL is the same now as Lindell and Warm but at least the Alctron made stuff looks easier to fix inside. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 14:47:37 GMT -6
Probably a very messy, tangled web of international copyrights / patents, especially when the people making the clones-of-clones have the plausible deniability of "we're just improving upon a schematic that exists in the public domain". That doesn't make it right - just next to impossible to exact any sort of legal remedy. Whatever the logo is on the fascia (or GUI), I think the original point I was edging towards was "have we reached a point where this magical, mystical 'glue' compressor has become a little too available?" Whether I was designing circuits or hammering out code, I'd likely not be saying, "hey, we should be emulating the compressor from the SSL 4KG's center section! Thar's gold in them thar hills!" I like what the "SSL bus compressor sound" is and what it does for my mixes. What I don't hear is enough difference between the plugs or the hardware to care which one I use. I have the SSL brand bus comp plugin and it works great. No need to bother with anything else at this point. So you can't hear the difference between a fullwave sidechain and one that's partially halfwave or the VCA distortion?  ?? Or the working fast attack and switching between attack/release/auto release based on the peak detector and charge times? |
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Post by svart on Nov 17, 2022 14:58:20 GMT -6
I like what the "SSL bus compressor sound" is and what it does for my mixes. What I don't hear is enough difference between the plugs or the hardware to care which one I use. I have the SSL brand bus comp plugin and it works great. No need to bother with anything else at this point. So you can't hear the difference between a fullwave sidechain and one that's partially halfwave or the VCA distortion? ?? Or the working fast attack and switching between attack/release/auto release based on the peak detector and charge times? Why would I care how things are done in the sidechain? If it sounds good, it IS good. That's all I care about. I stopped caring about what goes into the sausage when it's made. I only care that it tastes good. |
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Post by svart on Nov 17, 2022 15:05:34 GMT -6
I like what the "SSL bus compressor sound" is and what it does for my mixes. What I don't hear is enough difference between the plugs or the hardware to care which one I use. I have the SSL brand bus comp plugin and it works great. No need to bother with anything else at this point. So you can't hear the difference between a fullwave sidechain and one that's partially halfwave or the VCA distortion? ?? Or the working fast attack and switching between attack/release/auto release based on the peak detector and charge times? I'll also admit that I OBSESSED over this kind of stuff before. Realizing that it really didn't matter was a huge letdown, but now I feel freed from that burden of worrying about achingly small details that nobody notices anyway. |
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Post by notneeson on Nov 17, 2022 15:14:18 GMT -6
So you can't hear the difference between a fullwave sidechain and one that's partially halfwave or the VCA distortion? ?? Or the working fast attack and switching between attack/release/auto release based on the peak detector and charge times? I'll also admit that I OBSESSED over this kind of stuff before. Realizing that it really didn't matter was a huge letdown, but now I feel freed from that burden of worrying about achingly small details that nobody notices anyway. Same. I like my Stam, but I could see selling it as I’m quite happy with plugins now. |
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Post by svart on Nov 17, 2022 15:21:05 GMT -6
I'll also admit that I OBSESSED over this kind of stuff before. Realizing that it really didn't matter was a huge letdown, but now I feel freed from that burden of worrying about achingly small details that nobody notices anyway. Same. I like my Stam, but I could see selling it as I’m quite happy with plugins now. I think personal preference is the main thing here. I no longer think that make/model is a big deal anymore as they all do 90% the same thing. I could just adjust the settings a little to get that last 10%, if I even notice it missing. |
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Post by bossanova on Nov 17, 2022 15:50:05 GMT -6
Probably a very messy, tangled web of international copyrights / patents, especially when the people making the clones-of-clones have the plausible deniability of "we're just improving upon a schematic that exists in the public domain". That doesn't make it right - just next to impossible to exact any sort of legal remedy. Whatever the logo is on the fascia (or GUI), I think the original point I was edging towards was "have we reached a point where this magical, mystical 'glue' compressor has become a little too available?" Whether I was designing circuits or hammering out code, I'd likely not be saying, "hey, we should be emulating the compressor from the SSL 4KG's center section! Thar's gold in them thar hills!" I like what the "SSL bus compressor sound" is and what it does for my mixes. What I don't hear is enough difference between the plugs or the hardware to care which one I use. I have the SSL brand bus comp plugin and it works great. No need to bother with anything else at this point. I’ll add to this that between the SSL Native bus comp (eerily clean but smooth with oversampling) and the BX Townhouse plug (more harmonic grit and punch), the G-Bus flavors are pretty much covered. |
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Post by plinker on Nov 17, 2022 16:21:33 GMT -6
Bear in mind, I'm not mixing Adele records over here. THD? Noise? Pumping? Don't threaten me with a good time. Funniest thing I've read all week!
Thanks!
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Post by notneeson on Nov 17, 2022 16:28:47 GMT -6
I like what the "SSL bus compressor sound" is and what it does for my mixes. What I don't hear is enough difference between the plugs or the hardware to care which one I use. I have the SSL brand bus comp plugin and it works great. No need to bother with anything else at this point. I’ll add to this that between the SSL Native bus comp (eerily clean but smooth with oversampling) and the BX Townhouse plug (more harmonic grit and punch), the G-Bus flavors are pretty much covered. Ha, those are the two I’m digging as well. |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Nov 17, 2022 21:43:25 GMT -6
I was really intrigued by some of the thoughts in this thread, so I thought I'd test plugin and hardware compression I own. I'm posting three short files of a Kinksish project Ive recently tracked at my place and slapped three different bus compressors across each for comparison. No mixing has been completed at this point, so things are still pretty raw. I went to the trouble of using a few tools to measure and calibrate attack, release and threshold of the devices used as much as possible. I'd love to know how folks think they compare. At least one is hardware, and at least one is a plugin.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 18, 2022 8:26:32 GMT -6
RM stopped making my fav VCA comp - I'm not sure why?
Rolls Music RMS755.
It's my secret weapon on the stereo mix bus :-)
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Post by Ward on Nov 18, 2022 11:15:25 GMT -6
RM stopped making my fav VCA comp - I'm not sure why? Rolls Music RMS755. It's my secret weapon on the stereo mix bus :-) And now it's no longer a secret! |
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?? Or the working fast attack and switching between attack/release/auto release based on the peak detector and charge times?
