|
|
Post by lpedrum on Nov 7, 2022 22:03:59 GMT -6
I'm not a newbie at this but I'd love to hear what options folks are using. Currently I own one 500 Radial EXTC. It's easy to use and built like a tank of course. I'd like more channels of pedals when mixing but with the EXTC at $350 a piece plus the use of a 500 rack space it's not cheap. Yes, they make a stereo EXTC box, but it's not dual mono from what I can tell--great for a stereo reverb pedal for instance, but not for running two separate effects. (Am I right about that?) Then there's THIS - the new TK Audio Transceiver 2. I've never used one but the features seem very close to the EXTC, and you get four channels in a 1U space. But at $999 it's an investment. Anybody used one? If you're using pedals while mixing what's your process? Are there other products out there? Do you have a cheap workaround that does the trick? |
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Nov 7, 2022 22:21:42 GMT -6
I've been using stompboxes for decades... pretty much since when I bought my first 4 track and even today hanging off aux 2 on the desk or getting driven from the DA box. Even record with em too... drum mics... vocal FX...
On a tablet can't get too detailed right now but I have a bunch of cheap lo buck routing solutions...
Other boxes? Little Labs PCP. Think it was the first real commercial piece... something you could actually buy in the late 90s. All of Mr Littles stuff is dope.I have a couple of the $99 Radial boxes... the little DI style ones.
Can also try a passive DI in reverse. I've had mixed luck with that one. Ultimately there has to be some sorta level control feeding the pedals. Otherwise they just wanna overload instantly. More later!
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Nov 7, 2022 22:37:21 GMT -6
If you have the money yeah the PCP, otherwise pads DI’s and a small mixer for level control. The biggest lessI learned was to always use the shortest cable from pedal to di to get the signal balanced S soon as possible on the way out and a DI with a ground lift often saves the day.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Nov 7, 2022 22:42:14 GMT -6
OH I forgot Uptown, not the automation guys but the guys who built Adrain Belew and Robert Fripp’s guitar rig in the late 80’s early 90’s in addition to their midi stuff had their version of the PCP that is very good and can o be found used for very little money.
|
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Nov 7, 2022 22:46:59 GMT -6
Out of DA converters -> reamp box -> pedals -> DI -> AD converters.
I do it pretty regularly. It works great. For a while I was using a delay box as my favorite snare drum distortion.
I'd do a stereo solution if I could justify it but I don't really need that and I tend to buy things to expand my capability rather than give me under-utilized options.
|
|
|
|
Post by robo on Nov 8, 2022 0:18:27 GMT -6
I usually just print out of my single EXTC and then move on. I know that’s not what you’re asking, but consider the flexibility of just running sounds through a chain of interesting pedals, engaging whichever are helpful, printing, and then moving on until something else needs some pedal juice. I get inspired by not having to plan too much that way, and committing early.
To answer your question: a cheaper route would be using a ReAmp box into an extra DI/pre (assuming you’ve got some unused during a mix).
|
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Nov 8, 2022 0:22:51 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Nov 8, 2022 1:44:00 GMT -6
as soon as the US dollar returns to normal conversion rates i'm onto the meris stuff. thx for posting....
|
|
|
|
Post by 79sg on Nov 8, 2022 4:47:20 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Nov 8, 2022 6:03:12 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by bikescene on Nov 8, 2022 6:53:30 GMT -6
I also went the DIY route and built a DIYRE L2A. It was a half hour build. It looks like they added a filter switch recently. Withcertain fuzz pedals, I’ve had to incorporate a pickup simulator after the reamp. I built the project from AMZ FX. I also wired up a spare pickup in an enclosure to do the same thing. Lately, I’ve used my Fractal Audio FM3’s USB connection as an audio interface to use its send/return jacks to interface with pedals or amps. |
|
|
|
Post by spindrift on Nov 8, 2022 7:12:58 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Nov 8, 2022 7:59:38 GMT -6
If you have the money yeah the PCP, otherwise pads DI’s and a small mixer for level control. The biggest lessI learned was to always use the shortest cable from pedal to di to get the signal balanced S soon as possible on the way out and a DI with a ground lift often saves the day. I've not seen that PCP unit before - looks fantastic! |
|
|
|
Post by Bat Lanyard on Nov 8, 2022 8:44:16 GMT -6
The PCP is great (own one) but the cheaper Little Labs RedEye is an all-in-one solution. Currently I use four of them to put OTO pedals into the mix, one as a hardware insert and one on a Flock patchbay. Run both of them back out of the RedEye into Black Lion preamps that are super solid. Sounds amazing.  |
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2022 21:54:01 GMT -6
If you have the money yeah the PCP, otherwise pads DI’s and a small mixer for level control. The biggest lessI learned was to always use the shortest cable from pedal to di to get the signal balanced S soon as possible on the way out and a DI with a ground lift often saves the day. I think a lot about workflow these days. So when thinking about expanding my use of multiple pedals when mixing I want to avoid the use of temporary cables and boxes strung up in the workplace for a more permanent solution. But your idea of setting up a small mixer and racking up DIs somehow could be workable. And a heck of a lot cheaper than the PCP. |
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2022 21:58:00 GMT -6
Out of DA converters -> reamp box -> pedals -> DI -> AD converters. I do it pretty regularly. It works great. For a while I was using a delay box as my favorite snare drum distortion. I'd do a stereo solution if I could justify it but I don't really need that and I tend to buy things to expand my capability rather than give me under-utilized options. I hear you--"need to have" and "be cool to have" are two very different categories! On the other hand see Bat Lanyard's post. Seems like a great way to incorporate the ever growing list of great stereo pedals. |
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2022 21:59:15 GMT -6
The PCP is great (own one) but the cheaper Little Labs RedEye is an all-in-one solution. Currently I use four of them to put OTO pedals into the mix, one as a hardware insert and one on a Flock patchbay. Run both of them back out of the RedEye into Black Lion preamps that are super solid. Sounds amazing. Now this is inspired. |
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2022 22:02:43 GMT -6
Seems similar to the Meris pre--but it's an Avedis, so there's that! I don't really need any new pres myself right now, but if I was a guitarist beginning to build a project studio this would be a no brainer. |
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2022 22:07:04 GMT -6
But it still only has controls for one channel or full stereo. Not that that's a bad thing. But if I'm connecting 2 wildly different pedals I might need separate options when it comes to gain, blend, or phase. But this would be ideal for a stereo delay or verb. |
|
|
|
Post by din on Nov 9, 2022 14:57:48 GMT -6
I mainly use a pair of Avedis MD7's, also Pigtronix Keymaster, Little Labs PCP.
|
|
|
|
Post by 79sg on Nov 9, 2022 15:58:52 GMT -6
But it still only has controls for one channel or full stereo. Not that that's a bad thing. But if I'm connecting 2 wildly different pedals I might need separate options when it comes to gain, blend, or phase. But this would be ideal for a stereo delay or verb. If you looked at page 10 in the manual from the link in my prior post, the 2 channels are completely discreet so the channels do not affect each other the downside for what you want to do is SEND, RECEIVE and BLEND controls both left and right. I was smiling when reading Bat Lanyards post because I originally bought the EXTC Stereo box for my OTO BAM and BIM. May have to check out the PCP and Little Lab boxes. |
|
|
|
Post by thirdeye on Nov 9, 2022 20:37:25 GMT -6
I'm not a newbie at this but I'd love to hear what options folks are using. Currently I own one 500 Radial EXTC. It's easy to use and built like a tank of course. I'd like more channels of pedals when mixing but with the EXTC at $350 a piece plus the use of a 500 rack space it's not cheap. Yes, they make a stereo EXTC box, but it's not dual mono from what I can tell--great for a stereo reverb pedal for instance, but not for running two separate effects. (Am I right about that?) Then there's THIS - the new TK Audio Transceiver 2. I've never used one but the features seem very close to the EXTC, and you get four channels in a 1U space. But at $999 it's an investment. Anybody used one? If you're using pedals while mixing what's your process? Are there other products out there? Do you have a cheap workaround that does the trick? I have two of the standalone single channel EXTC. I think the Transceiver 2 looks like the best option though, if you have the available ad/da. I want two of them eventually! Ha! |
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Nov 10, 2022 18:38:38 GMT -6
The PCP is great (own one) but the cheaper Little Labs RedEye is an all-in-one solution. Currently I use four of them to put OTO pedals into the mix, one as a hardware insert and one on a Flock patchbay. Run both of them back out of the RedEye into Black Lion preamps that are super solid. Sounds amazing. I need to come over and check that rig out! |
|
|
|
Post by Bat Lanyard on Nov 13, 2022 15:28:08 GMT -6
The PCP is great (own one) but the cheaper Little Labs RedEye is an all-in-one solution. Currently I use four of them to put OTO pedals into the mix, one as a hardware insert and one on a Flock patchbay. Run both of them back out of the RedEye into Black Lion preamps that are super solid. Sounds amazing. I need to come over and check that rig out! Anytime, man! Would be good to hang out again. |
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Nov 13, 2022 22:24:39 GMT -6
But it still only has controls for one channel or full stereo. Not that that's a bad thing. But if I'm connecting 2 wildly different pedals I might need separate options when it comes to gain, blend, or phase. But this would be ideal for a stereo delay or verb. Apologies was crazy slammed last week. Yes gain blend & phase reverse... like a few have said the best option for return side is a DI on a mic pre... something we probably all have a few of sitting around unused at mix. That's your level (kinda) and polarity. On the return side anyway. Sends & blend? FWIW I wanted to love the Meris pre w/ FX loop. What a mixed bag. Ok some of this may seem crude on a technical level... and it kinda is but the disclaimer is that I'm not too worried about fidelity. Like if I'm sending the vocal out to a ring modulator? Drums to a fuzz & space echo..? More concerned about function, are the pedals doing what they're supposed to or are they getting glitchy & freaking out? Biggest impact is level on the send side. Obviously most guitar pedals... MXR phase 90 type want to see level that's 20-30dB lower then line level. And then impedance mismatches galore yes... Lotta times with a full analog desk? I'd use a bus out and simply drop the level way down... no fancy pants reamp boxes. Jam a 1/4 cable in there and run with it. That's what everyone did before you could just, like call vintage king & have a reamp box at your door 2 days later. Typical setup for say, I have an old AC cord deluxe electric mistress and I want to put that on something right? Bus out of the desk with the level OFF to start... right out of patchbay to pedal input > pedal out > DI on mic amp back to a channel on the desk at unity gain or maybe -5dB. Then solo sends & return and slowly crack open the send level. You'll know when its too much for the pedal, they'll clip in a really bad way... so hit that point & back off a hair. Then dial in whatever actual level you need on the return/DI side. Wet/dry blend? Each has its own fader. Worth noting here that blend/polarity? Sometimes seems to matter. Sometimes doesn't. Sometimes dramatic differences. Most pedals, even reverb & delays maintain at least some amount of dry signal which is going to "compete" against the source. Many many times though I'll wind up printing stompboxes back into the session on a new set of tracks. Occasionally they run "live" during the mix prints (I'm on a desk) but usually not. Often think of the pedal stuff as "sound design" and given that, and some tweaky pedals like a Zvex or memory man? Where you'll never get the same setting twice? Mix revisions & recalls being what they are... especially on the work for hire end? I don't wanna try to get a sound back a month later. I have a couple radial reamp boxes... they're certainly more elegant but the main reason I got 'em was because of a project that came in where reamping dry guitars was part of the gig. Most times I'll patch 'em off the converter output and do most level adjust from the DAW send, rarely touch the trim screw on the box. DI returns sometimes get patched back to converter inputs... but sometimes they end up going through an EQ for some judicious "no fears" filtering and maybe even hit the desk where I'll ride things around as they get tracked back into the session. Sorta "played" in real time... performance style. For instance maybe something came in with a really lame B3 sound. Maybe like a mono Nord DI right? I'll poke that out to a phaser & adjust the sweep like a Leslie cab ramping up & down. Backing vocals maybe I want longer echo times in the choruses? Instead of automating a plug I'll use a pedal and real time tap tempo. I feel things like the Radial & Little Labs boxes are super elegant. And they do sound great but I don't think they're really needed to get sounds... but you do need some kind of mixer / real time monitoring and some front/back end infrastructure to keep levels in a reasonable ballpark. |
|
