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Post by tahoebrian5 on Oct 24, 2022 14:06:51 GMT -6
I’ve been reading up about differences in high end DA converters (Burl,Dangerous,etc) for monitoring. Granted I have not listened to any of them, but... most monitors these days have DSP in them. See where I am going here? Unless the DSP is just controlling an analog system? Thoughts? I am likely to seeing the big picture here!
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 24, 2022 14:29:40 GMT -6
If you mean does one set of da become redundant , if you are sending a digital signal to the monitor than yes you are correct.
Not much you can do about it.
Either don’t buy monitors that convert or demo the hell out of them and make certain they are an objective improvement over your interface DA.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2022 14:35:20 GMT -6
If your monitors have a digital input it is probably best to simply go in digital, unless of course you love the combined sound of your favorite DA feeding the AD of your monitors or let’s say you have a sub without a digital input and prefer the crossover sound in the sub.
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Post by svart on Oct 25, 2022 8:46:23 GMT -6
Fewer conversion stages will always be better than whether something has DSP involved IMHO.
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Post by tahoebrian5 on Oct 25, 2022 9:44:13 GMT -6
My main point was, it seems like most high end monitors have another AD/DA stage for DSP, so wouldn’t that make a dedicated DA for monitoring obsolete?
Are many of you out there going aes or spdif into your monitors?
I can see where it could be beneficial for a 2bus chain though.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 25, 2022 9:58:24 GMT -6
My main point was, it seems like most high end monitors have another AD/DA stage for DSP, so wouldn’t that make a dedicated DA for monitoring obsolete? Are many of you out there going aes or spdif into your monitors? I can see where it could be beneficial for a 2bus chain though. Some of us still run passive monitors even with DSP before our highend conversion because most active speakers are using less than optimal conversion and amplification. |
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Post by ab101 on Oct 25, 2022 10:02:03 GMT -6
By the way, not a dumb question. Thank you for asking it.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 25, 2022 10:18:40 GMT -6
My main point was, it seems like most high end monitors have another AD/DA stage for DSP, so wouldn’t that make a dedicated DA for monitoring obsolete? Are many of you out there going aes or spdif into your monitors? I can see where it could be beneficial for a 2bus chain though. I actually was told a guy from a dealer I will not name tried to convince a friend putting an Apogee in front of his new Genelecs would improve the sound, so not a dumb question. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 25, 2022 12:08:48 GMT -6
My main point was, it seems like most high end monitors have another AD/DA stage for DSP, so wouldn’t that make a dedicated DA for monitoring obsolete? Are many of you out there going aes or spdif into your monitors? I can see where it could be beneficial for a 2bus chain though.
It honestly just kind of depends. If you like the sound of your D/A for monitoring and prefer it to the monitors' built-in D/A, then it would make sense to have a standalone D/A.
On the other hand, if you don't mind the sound of your monitors, this would free up two channels of D/A to be used for hardware inserts. Or, as you've stated, it could potentially make having a dedicated D/A redundant.
Personally, as long as the monitors are respectable enough, I would rather have the extra D/A for inserts. I'm actually in that exact predicament right now. Only two channels of D/A on my Apogee, and no digital I/O on my monitors. Can't use HW inserts unless I unplug and re-route stuff, super annoying.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 25, 2022 13:06:55 GMT -6
My main point was, it seems like most high end monitors have another AD/DA stage for DSP, so wouldn’t that make a dedicated DA for monitoring obsolete? Are many of you out there going aes or spdif into your monitors? I can see where it could be beneficial for a 2bus chain though.
It honestly just kind of depends. If you like the sound of your D/A for monitoring and prefer it to the monitors' built-in D/A, then it would make sense to have a standalone D/A.
On the other hand, if you don't mind the sound of your monitors, this would free up two channels of D/A to be used for hardware inserts. Or, as you've stated, it could potentially make having a dedicated D/A redundant.
Personally, as long as the monitors are respectable enough, I would rather have the extra D/A for inserts. I'm actually in that exact predicament right now. Only two channels of D/A on my Apogee, and no digital I/O on my monitors. Can't use HW inserts unless I unplug and re-route stuff, super annoying.
Simple solution get a patchbay, split the single and buy or build a simple attenuator. 2 paths out of the Apogee same single but 2 paths. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Oct 25, 2022 20:23:19 GMT -6
Not a dumb question at all, but I would not worry about the DSP on the manufacturer's end. They had a reason to do what they did and it will sound like they intended it to sound. It either works in your space or it doesn't. That's the void to cross.
Converters getting out of the computer to the monitors, that's a different question, IMHO.
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 25, 2022 21:55:26 GMT -6
Any speaker with built in dsp is doing an A/D and then D/A in the speaker to apply it's dsp to the signal.
So yeah it's silly to have a bad ass da for your speakers in you have digital dsp monitors. And your using the dsp.
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Post by guitfiddler on Oct 27, 2022 5:45:26 GMT -6
I had a Dangerous Source and although I was told by some trusted people that it shouldn’t change the sound of the D/A it did in my case, so now I go out of the USB straight into the D/A. Not sure if something is wrong with my Source, but it’s even a lot quieter and I lose some punch in the sound. Can anyone recommend a good monitor controller with really good 2 headphone outs and 3 sets of monitors? I’m currently looking at the Coleman stuff.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 27, 2022 7:36:49 GMT -6
I had a Dangerous Source and although I was told by some trusted people that it shouldn’t change the sound of the D/A it did in my case, so now I go out of the USB straight into the D/A. Not sure if something is wrong with my Source, but it’s even a lot quieter and I lose some punch in the sound. Can anyone recommend a good monitor controller with really good 2 headphone outs and 3 sets of monitors? I’m currently looking at the Coleman stuff. Coleman is great but it’s all passive so having enough gain before it is important. Honestly more and more I’m thinking the best monitor controller is a patchbay and attenuator. Sounds nuts but it’s completely scaleable, can be reconfigured. And you can route just about anything! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2022 10:37:36 GMT -6
I had a Dangerous Source and although I was told by some trusted people that it shouldn’t change the sound of the D/A it did in my case, so now I go out of the USB straight into the D/A. Not sure if something is wrong with my Source, but it’s even a lot quieter and I lose some punch in the sound. Can anyone recommend a good monitor controller with really good 2 headphone outs and 3 sets of monitors? I’m currently looking at the Coleman stuff. All hifi pre-amps and monitor controllers will change the sound. Even the passives. You’re running the signal into another gain stage with its own distortion characteristics or there are impedance issues in the passive attenuators. I mean your signal probably has already been run through a mishmash of different distortions unless it was recorded to a console and even then there will be outboard and converters. Adding an additional fairly clean line stage won’t hurt anything. The most transparent control is floating point digital with a 24-bit dither before it hits the converters. Then there are the people complaining about the sound change from a dangerous, Drawmer, or Grace unit when what they’re feeding it is some interface with absolute junk in it like rme or Presonus and then their active monitors have even junkier class d chip amps in them. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 27, 2022 11:04:12 GMT -6
I had a Dangerous Source and although I was told by some trusted people that it shouldn’t change the sound of the D/A it did in my case, so now I go out of the USB straight into the D/A. Not sure if something is wrong with my Source, but it’s even a lot quieter and I lose some punch in the sound. Can anyone recommend a good monitor controller with really good 2 headphone outs and 3 sets of monitors? I’m currently looking at the Coleman stuff. All hifi pre-amps and monitor controllers will change the sound. Even the passives. You’re running the signal into another gain stage with its own distortion characteristics or there are impedance issues in the passive attenuators. I mean your signal probably has already been run through a mishmash of different distortions unless it was recorded to a console and even then there will be outboard and converters. Adding an additional fairly clean line stage won’t hurt anything. The most transparent control is floating point digital with a 24-bit dither before it hits the converters. Then there are the people complaining about the sound change from a dangerous, Drawmer, or Grace unit when what they’re feeding it is some interface with absolute junk in it like rme or Presonus and then their active monitors have even junkier class d chip amps in them. Hey remember some of us have to route good old analog as well! |
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Post by guitfiddler on Oct 27, 2022 15:54:28 GMT -6
I’m using a Dangerous Convert-2 going directly to my speakers from the usb and that seems to make everything good and I use the attenuator on the Convert-2. Wish I had headphone outputs or more I/O. I use the Dangerous AD+ on the way in. Everything sounds great, but in need of a monitor controller that doesn’t color the sound or change the gain. There is plenty of gain coming out of the Convert 2 but for some reason I lose about -10 db and some really good quality in the lower mids. Weird, thanks guys. I’m still thinking there is an issue with this Source. So, I sent it in for repair and they said they couldn’t find a problem with it. So now I’m really baffled. Dangerous even said on the phone that I should not hear any difference going passive through the device. The thing that really gets me is that it’s a lot quieter even going passive analog through the Source. I’m guessing -10 db could be more, I did not test it, but it’s really noticeable. I can’t say it sounds bad, but if I’m going to use the Convert-2 D/A I need something a big step up I guess, or just go with the Dbox+ and be happy.
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