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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2022 11:39:51 GMT -6
I've been preoccupied moving twice this year, but I finally began working with my Apollo X6 after having the premium BLA mod done. It's been a welcome surprise in many ways. First, the headphone sound is now shockingly good. So much so, I'm comping vocals, doing all sorts of editing and checking my panning balances confidently. In fact, I now prefer comping and doing volume edits of vocals with headphones. I like to edit the vocal track volume by hand, one phrase at a time, and then see afterwards if more compression is needed. The soundstage is so much clearer now, it enables me to place instruments and adjust reverbs quickly. The low end is considerably tighter and cleaner, vocals sound less harsh and strained, making it easer to find the "sits right in the mix" volume. Effects are easier to hear and dial in because I think the new clock has swept away the fog I've been working around since the first Apollo came out. Overall, I hear the mix now, and no longer the sound of the Apollo. By far the most surprising and important thing is that my mixes took half the time, or less, than they used to take. I'm mixing a new album now for a friend and every time I sit down to mix, I'm getting close to a final mix so fast, I'm doing in three hours what always takes six to eight hours, really. It's all coming together so fast, it's taking me time to accept that it's almost done and I don't need to do too much more. This site began as an alternative to the mess at the purple site, and many of the original Apollo users migrated here from there. Many of them have become trusted friends and I wouldn't recommend it so highly to them if I wasn't confident they'd love it. This is what BLA does: XB Mod (Premium Analog I/O & XB Clock) Analog – New, high performance op-amps on all analog inputs and outputs – New, high-grade signal path capacitors on analog inputs (not available on X16) – New, high-grade decoupling capacitors on mic preamps, Hi-Z inputs, and headphone amplifiers (not available on X16) – New, high-grade decoupling capacitors on line outputs (X16 only) – New, high-grade decoupling capacitors used for global power filtration – Improving the performance of the analog stage circuits makes a drastic difference for tracking, mixing, and mastering (expect amazing micro-dynamics and space)! Digital – New internal, ultra-low-jitter, XB word clock with proprietary implementation – The clock modification makes a big difference to the A/D and D/A conversion stages. It opens up the soundstage and removes grit! – Proprietary decoupling on all A/D and D/A converters using methods found in our Signature, FM, and XB modifications – Our approach to converter decoupling reduces noise generated during the conversion process, leaving you with crisp, clear audio! Here's a link if you'd like to look around: www.blacklionaudio.com/product-category/modifications/ |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2022 11:44:27 GMT -6
Oh, and I love seeing the little BLA lion button sticker on my faceplate, ha!
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2022 13:05:00 GMT -6
The bla mod definitely makes the apollo more linear: glad you are happy with the mod.
Enjoy the new sound and digs !
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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 18, 2022 13:46:01 GMT -6
That's awesome Martin. How do you feel it's affected the recording side of things? Any significant sonic improvements to the mic pres or A/D?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2022 13:46:58 GMT -6
Thanks Matt! What I've enjoyed about the mod is that I've been noticing things by chance, I wasn't looking or listening for them. This way I know know it's real and not me expecting something.
tkaitkai, I haven't had a chance to track with it yet. I'l get to that ASAP and I'll post here.. They did perform upgrades to op amps and capacitor's, so it should be an improvement.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2022 14:01:51 GMT -6
I don’t believe the mod does anything to the apollo pres as they are I think, just ic chips anyways.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2022 17:45:21 GMT -6
From their website: "new, high-grade decoupling capacitors on mic preamps,"
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2022 18:16:34 GMT -6
That’s just changing the caps, frankly likely has a marginal discernible sonic difference.
The strength of the bla mod is its cumulative affect on sound quality, linearity, reduced noise, etc..
I agree, its quite noticeable.
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Post by raddistribution on Oct 18, 2022 18:45:24 GMT -6
I don’t believe the mod does anything to the apollo pres as they are I think, just ic chips anyways. We absolutely change out the preamps. The apollos use the pga2500 chip as well as maybe 90% of other interfaces that we have seen. One of the first things we do with most mods are take those out and then base a new preamp off that particular units implementation. |
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Post by Mark Kano on Oct 18, 2022 19:30:06 GMT -6
Thanks for this review, Martin. I've been contemplating either the premium mod, or trying out the Burl B2 ADC. Harshness in vocal tracks is something I have noticed since buying the X6. I assumed it was in the neutrality of the converters, revealing things I hadn't heard before. Glad to hear it's money well spent to your ears. My main concern would be that the modded preamps would be interacting differently with the preamp emulations. I tend to use the line inputs more though so it wouldn't be a deal-breaker either way. Would love to hear your thoughts once you do some tracking.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2022 23:19:06 GMT -6
I don’t believe the mod does anything to the apollo pres as they are I think, just ic chips anyways. We absolutely change out the preamps. The apollos use the pga2500 chip as well as maybe 90% of other interfaces that we have seen. One of the first things we do with most mods are take those out and then base a new preamp off that particular units implementation. Hi, Thx, I had the original bla mod done prior to bla being sold and I believe at that time the chips were not replaced. Since, all the apollo unison technology is designed to run on the original apollo parts, how does the mod affect the unison capacity, impedance matching of each modelled pre and the software emulations of each modelled plug in ? |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 19, 2022 0:09:26 GMT -6
We absolutely change out the preamps. The apollos use the pga2500 chip as well as maybe 90% of other interfaces that we have seen. One of the first things we do with most mods are take those out and then base a new preamp off that particular units implementation. Hi, Thx, I had the original bla mod done prior to bla being sold and I believe at that time the chips were not replaced. Since, all the apollo unison technology is designed to run on the original apollo parts, how does the mod affect the unison capacity, impedance matching of each modelled pre and the software emulations of each modelled plug in ? Good point! Surely Unison technology can't work properly if the known specifications of the preamp change. It's like moving the goal posts or changing the expected set of baseline parameters. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 19, 2022 2:34:06 GMT -6
Well, unison is really two things: impedance matching and software emulation but all this is baked into the ua models and code.
When you first start using your bla post mod apollo, you certainly certainly hear the sonic difference and the plug-ins appear to work normally so it’s kind of impossible to say if the software emulation of a pre is affected?
I have never seen a direct performance comparison or blind test of ua unison plugs run on a stock and bla modded apollo, but was always curious about whether there were measurable differences.
I never used unison much, preferred the apollo pre stand slone or ob pres.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 19, 2022 13:06:42 GMT -6
I'll know when I get there and will certainly post results. It's great to know the preamps are changed. I NEVER used Apollo preamps, only for quick voice over work on occasion. It would be great if they were more useable now. Next chance I get, I'll check it out. I've had Apollo's since the first week they were released. I know their sound in my bones by now.
I was never that impressed with UAD's preamp modeling either. On rare occasions I've used the Helios, just for a particular sound on one track. So I'm not worried about the interaction of the BLA pres, almost anything will likely improve on them. I have a Neve 1073 style preamp, so I would only use UAD's preamp modeling if I wanted to use extra mics and kind of match the hardware's tone.
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Post by mjheck on Oct 19, 2022 14:09:26 GMT -6
I don’t believe the mod does anything to the apollo pres as they are I think, just ic chips anyways. We absolutely change out the preamps. The apollos use the pga2500 chip as well as maybe 90% of other interfaces that we have seen. One of the first things we do with most mods are take those out and then base a new preamp off that particular units implementation. Thanks for participating in this thread - how different is the modification per the various Apollo variations? Has the BLA process evolved as they have evolved or has your standard and process stayed consistent? Thanks! MJH |
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Post by yewtreemagic on Oct 19, 2022 16:36:12 GMT -6
Thanks for starting this thread Martin John Butler - it's good to hear a personal assessment of mods like these, as Black Lion Audio seem to have no demo audio at all on their website demonstrating any of the claimed improvements on any of their mods (I'm not saying they don't exist - just that after claiming "Improving the performance of the analog stage circuits makes a drastic difference for tracking, mixing, and mastering (expect amazing micro-dynamics and space)!" you would expect them to post at least a few before/after audio clips to support this  And thanks too to Seth Berman of RAD Distribution for contributing with useful facts  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 19, 2022 18:06:12 GMT -6
My pleasure yewtree. I like the Apollo system, but haven't delved into Luna yet. I can't see why I'd want to learn another DAW. Logic is already hard enough to grasp all it can do.
I'll try to check the preamps tomorrow or on Friday.
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Post by raddistribution on Oct 20, 2022 6:43:55 GMT -6
We absolutely change out the preamps. The apollos use the pga2500 chip as well as maybe 90% of other interfaces that we have seen. One of the first things we do with most mods are take those out and then base a new preamp off that particular units implementation. Thanks for participating in this thread - how different is the modification per the various Apollo variations? Has the BLA process evolved as they have evolved or has your standard and process stayed consistent? Thanks! MJH Every single Apollo mod (and every other mod for that matter) is different. We obviously have an approach that we generally follow, as we find that certain changes are almost always beneficial, but after that the sound of the interface dictates the parts used. While yes, GENERALLY the best sounding opamps are a select few over and over again... there have been plenty of times where an interface just sounds terrible with them and through our double blind testing system we have come up with over the years, end up on some very weird esoteric or "lesser" opamps based solely on the fact that they really sound great in some interfaces. same with our capacitor selection. Back to Apollos, the silver and black were actually very different mods on the analog and decoupling side but nothing could be done with the clock as they used a very specific style of clocking that was not compatible with any of our designs. That was the single biggest change we saw between the black and the apollo x. UA moved over to the much more common dual crystal design which was great as we were now able to redesign the XB clock specifically for the apollo x. We find this part of the mod to be almost as beneficial as the component switching part of the mod itself... in fact, we STILL use an older apollo for clocking demos due to how well they have always responded to clocking in an audible way. More so than almost any other interface we have ever seen, which is why we were beyond psyched to see the big clock change in the x series because it now meant that we could put the clock internally as opposed to users having to use our external clock. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 20, 2022 6:52:38 GMT -6
Hmm, as thunderbolt apollos use its star clocking tech for linking multiple apollos.
What does bla recommend that a bla modded apollo be master clock?
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Post by raddistribution on Oct 20, 2022 7:05:42 GMT -6
Hmm, as thunderbolt apollos use its star clocking tech for linking multiple apollos. What does bla recommend that a bla modded apollo be master clock? Yes and then each subsequent Apollo receives the clocking via the thunderbolt connecting between the units |
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Post by raddistribution on Oct 20, 2022 7:18:56 GMT -6
Thanks for starting this thread Martin John Butler - it's good to hear a personal assessment of mods like these, as Black Lion Audio seem to have no demo audio at all on their website demonstrating any of the claimed improvements on any of their mods (I'm not saying they don't exist - just that after claiming "Improving the performance of the analog stage circuits makes a drastic difference for tracking, mixing, and mastering (expect amazing micro-dynamics and space)!" you would expect them to post at least a few before/after audio clips to support this And thanks too to Seth Berman of RAD Distribution for contributing with useful facts We used to have sound demos but were always in a constant state of defending these clips. pretty much it became a full time job of defending that the audio difference was big enough that it had to have been faked. We decided it just wasn't worth it in the end and allowed our 15 years of mod experience and more importantly word of mouth of prior mod owners to do it for us. |
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Post by notneeson on Oct 20, 2022 8:26:18 GMT -6
Former BLA mod owner here.
My advice is, do it if you think it will be your forever(ish) interface and you think it’s worth it. Don’t do it expecting to recoup the mod fees on resale.
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Post by ericn on Oct 20, 2022 11:39:17 GMT -6
Former BLA mod owner here. My advice is, do it if you think it will be your forever(ish) interface and you think it’s worth it. Don’t do it expecting to recoup the mod fees on resale. I think one of the biggest problems is people think there is a Forever interface, yeah funny coming from the guy running a Radar V /24 running on BE. The fact is you , your interface, DAW and plugins will always be at the mercy of the OS and Computer manufacturers. At some point no matter how often you say “ I don’t see a reason to upgrade “ at some point you eat those words. |
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Post by Quint on Oct 20, 2022 12:47:30 GMT -6
Former BLA mod owner here. My advice is, do it if you think it will be your forever(ish) interface and you think it’s worth it. Don’t do it expecting to recoup the mod fees on resale. I think one of the biggest problems is people think there is a Forever interface, yeah funny coming from the guy running a Radar V /24 running on BE. The fact is you , your interface, DAW and plugins will always be at the mercy of the OS and Computer manufacturers. At some point no matter how often you say “ I don’t see a reason to upgrade “ at some point you eat those words. To the extent that ANY interface/converters can be used "forever" or even just for a long time, that's why I like interfaces where the means of connection to a computer is on an option card that can be swapped out for another as connection protocols or your own needs change over time. I like that about the Apollos. I like that about Lynx Auroras. I like that about other interfaces that offer similar as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 12:53:27 GMT -6
Former BLA mod owner here. My advice is, do it if you think it will be your forever(ish) interface and you think it’s worth it. Don’t do it expecting to recoup the mod fees on resale. I think one of the biggest problems is people think there is a Forever interface, yeah funny coming from the guy running a Radar V /24 running on BE. The fact is you , your interface, DAW and plugins will always be at the mercy of the OS and Computer manufacturers. At some point no matter how often you say “ I don’t see a reason to upgrade “ at some point you eat those words. Big Six is class compliant chief, USB isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Despite an initial couple of fumbles it's working out just fine and will last me until it inevitably short circuits. |
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