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Post by RealNoob on Dec 6, 2022 14:13:00 GMT -6
Unless you are a pro, why pay the costs of protools/avid ? Are PT’s perceived advantages really so significant vs keeping that money in your pocket to buy better gear or what ever? Have fun getting your head around PT’s again and do what works for you! Thanks. I R Pro |
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Post by RealNoob on Dec 6, 2022 14:15:20 GMT -6
Are you guys saying that delay compensation is still not fixed in PT? After this many years? I do intend to use outbosrd though only on master buss right now not likely not an issue for me.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 6, 2022 14:15:59 GMT -6
Then PT makes sense if you have improved workflow: go for it !
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 6, 2022 14:35:21 GMT -6
Are you guys saying that delay compensation is still not fixed in PT? After this many years? I do intend to use outbosrd though only on master buss right now not likely not an issue for me. I think what they're saying is that the I/O plugin in Pro Tools doesn't have any kind of "ping" feature to automatically calculate what your I/O latency is (like every other native DAW on the market). If you're using a Digidesign Avid interface, it calculates everything automatically, but if you're using a third-party converter, you're on your own with calculating I/O latency. At least that's my understanding. I quit Pro Tools a long, long time ago. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Dec 6, 2022 18:01:49 GMT -6
Are you guys saying that delay compensation is still not fixed in PT? After this many years? I do intend to use outbosrd though only on master buss right now not likely not an issue for me. I think what they're saying is that the I/O plugin in Pro Tools doesn't have any kind of "ping" feature to automatically calculate what your I/O latency is (like every other native DAW on the market). If you're using a Digidesign Avid interface, it calculates everything automatically, but if you're using a third-party converter, you're on your own with calculating I/O latency. At least that's my understanding. I quit Pro Tools a long, long time ago. Works just fine with PT HD Native and compatible converters. But I get the sentiment. Agree with almost every analysis here but I can't get along with any other DAW. Maybe I'll try Cubase when our record's finished and I have downtime. Having PT HD makes it super easy to bring the live drums we do back into my place though. For Reaper I'd need to hire the dude that does all the videos to run it. When I think of my attempts to use Reaper it reminds me of that great line from The Social Network where Zuck's girlfriend tells him "Dating you is like dating a Stairmaster: it's exhausting". Edit: Yes, with Reaper it's a me problem. 100%. Just to avoid the flaming when we're talking PT. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 6, 2022 18:44:24 GMT -6
I think what they're saying is that the I/O plugin in Pro Tools doesn't have any kind of "ping" feature to automatically calculate what your I/O latency is (like every other native DAW on the market). If you're using a Digidesign Avid interface, it calculates everything automatically, but if you're using a third-party converter, you're on your own with calculating I/O latency. At least that's my understanding. I quit Pro Tools a long, long time ago. Works just fine with PT HD Native and compatible converters. But I get the sentiment. Agree with almost every analysis here but I can't get along with any other DAW. Maybe I'll try Cubase when our record's finished and I have downtime. Having PT HD makes it super easy to bring the live drums we do back into my place though. For Reaper I'd need to hire the dude that does all the videos to run it. When I think of my attempts to use Reaper it reminds me of that great line from The Social Network where Zuck's girlfriend tells him "Dating you is like dating a Stairmaster: it's exhausting". Edit: Yes, with Reaper it's a me problem. 100%. Just to avoid the flaming when we're talking PT. If I could justify the expense of PT HD, it would be a different matter for me. When I used PT TDM daily years and years ago, I mostly loved it. When I had to switch to native versions of PT is when I started noticing how competitive other DAWs were. A lot of things would be simpler with an HD rig. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 6, 2022 21:54:07 GMT -6
My only PT gripe is that they haven’t done a HW latency ping feature after a DECADE of requests, unless you buy their converter. Logic: snap my fingers with any device, done! ProTools: start every mixing session feeding click tracks through bypassed gear, zoom in 100x to nudge waveforms by the sample, dig through the basement for any middle school textbook that’ll explain unit conversion math, and then still only be “mostly” confident… This. This is the biggest pita about PT |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 6, 2022 21:59:44 GMT -6
I’m not going to explain this right…but I swear there’s some kind of headroom difference when using Superior Drummer in Luna and Pro Tools. Like - I have a harder time getting SD sit in a mix compared to PT. Talking about just using the stereo plugin. Now - I’m sure it’s something I’m doing. Or maybe every placebo, but I seem to have more problems/takes longer to get things to gell in Luna in comparison to PT. Maybe I’m not hitting Luna meters as hard as I should. Or something to that affect.
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Post by ragan on Dec 6, 2022 22:17:35 GMT -6
My only PT gripe is that they haven’t done a HW latency ping feature after a DECADE of requests, unless you buy their converter. Logic: snap my fingers with any device, done! ProTools: start every mixing session feeding click tracks through bypassed gear, zoom in 100x to nudge waveforms by the sample, dig through the basement for any middle school textbook that’ll explain unit conversion math, and then still only be “mostly” confident… It’s obscene that they don’t offer loop ping calcs. I like PT and I’m not going to learn another DAW, but some of their choices are so spiteful and dumbly punitive. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Dec 6, 2022 22:48:21 GMT -6
I'm not so sure about that. My new MacBook Pro has the warmest sound I've ever heard from a laptop. I think combining my MBP with Professional Tools gives me the most professional anal-log sounds I've heard to date. All of my PCs (when I used to have them) needed to be re-amped to get that warmth. When the former plugin guru makes this statement I know my ears ain’t lyin!! |
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 7, 2022 1:35:13 GMT -6
My only PT gripe is that they haven’t done a HW latency ping feature after a DECADE of requests, unless you buy their converter. Logic: snap my fingers with any device, done! ProTools: start every mixing session feeding click tracks through bypassed gear, zoom in 100x to nudge waveforms by the sample, dig through the basement for any middle school textbook that’ll explain unit conversion math, and then still only be “mostly” confident… It’s obscene that they don’t offer loop ping calcs. I like PT and I’m not going to learn another DAW, but some of their choices are so spiteful and dumbly punitive. One aspect about Pro Tools for mixing (I still prefer Cubase or Logic for the composition and arrangement stage in a VI based project studio) is the scalability of the hardware. In that sense Avid covers the weekend warrior all the way up to systems costing $100,000’s dollars with vast HDX / control mixer systems that offer incredible workflow for professional engineer/ producers. That S6 desk MHB uses does look pretty amazing. A tad more swish than my Cubase 12 - Faderport 16/ Console 1 system …. just a tad  |
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Post by drbill on Dec 7, 2022 9:55:47 GMT -6
Unless you are a pro, why pay the costs of protools/avid ? There are hundreds of reasons, but most of em are way down in the weeds..... For me, the #1 piece of gear in the studio is Pro Tools. More than any mic, more than any piece of outboard or console, more than acoustics. Sure, you can do the same things with other tools. But for me and thousands of others the elegance, design esthetic and speed are worth the cost - which really isn't that much IMO when you consider what it does for you. Compare the cost of console / tape machine and associated maintenance. Even the most expensive PT system is a bargain. If Cubase or Logic works for you and costs you next to nothing - awesome. PT works for me. The days of DAWS have made us lazy I think. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 7, 2022 10:35:34 GMT -6
Bro, you’re a pro !
I’m not, since switching to logic for under $300, I have not paid Avid $1,000’s, money in my pocket!
Whatever floats your boat !
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Post by RealNoob on Dec 7, 2022 12:19:15 GMT -6
Unless you are a pro, why pay the costs of protools/avid ? There are hundreds of reasons, but most of em are way down in the weeds..... For me, the #1 piece of gear in the studio is Pro Tools. More than any mic, more than any piece of outboard or console, more than acoustics. Sure, you can do the same things with other tools. But for me and thousands of others the elegance, design esthetic and speed are worth the cost - which really isn't that much IMO when you consider what it does for you. Compare the cost of console / tape machine and associated maintenance. Even the most expensive PT system is a bargain. If Cubase or Logic works for you and costs you next to nothing - awesome. PT works for me. The days of DAWS have made us lazy I think. doc, you're a hardware guru. Do you only "hardware" your master buss or are you inserting on tracks or sub groups and if so, how do "you" handle the latency? |
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Post by drbill on Dec 7, 2022 13:01:59 GMT -6
There are hundreds of reasons, but most of em are way down in the weeds..... For me, the #1 piece of gear in the studio is Pro Tools. More than any mic, more than any piece of outboard or console, more than acoustics. Sure, you can do the same things with other tools. But for me and thousands of others the elegance, design esthetic and speed are worth the cost - which really isn't that much IMO when you consider what it does for you. Compare the cost of console / tape machine and associated maintenance. Even the most expensive PT system is a bargain. If Cubase or Logic works for you and costs you next to nothing - awesome. PT works for me. The days of DAWS have made us lazy I think. doc, you're a hardware guru. Do you only "hardware" your master buss or are you inserting on tracks or sub groups and if so, how do "you" handle the latency? Hey Rob - for clarity : 2012 Mac Cheesegrater upgraded to as fast as it can be running 10.14.6 with 64G ram AVID HDX2 w/ 120 i/o PT HDX 2019.10 - will upgrade to 2022.x if/when I can find some TIME!!! How do I deal with latency? I pull down the "options" menu and enable "delay compensation". Done. Never think about it again. Also, knowing the differences between "inserts" and "I/o" and how it affects latency is important. I am always putting hardware in inserts - not going thru outputs and inputs to get to my hardware. I have multiple pieces of hardware on : individual tracks. Group busses. 2 buss. Everywhere / anywhere I feel it's needed. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 7, 2022 13:02:48 GMT -6
There are hundreds of reasons, but most of em are way down in the weeds..... For me, the #1 piece of gear in the studio is Pro Tools. More than any mic, more than any piece of outboard or console, more than acoustics. Sure, you can do the same things with other tools. But for me and thousands of others the elegance, design esthetic and speed are worth the cost - which really isn't that much IMO when you consider what it does for you. Compare the cost of console / tape machine and associated maintenance. Even the most expensive PT system is a bargain. If Cubase or Logic works for you and costs you next to nothing - awesome. PT works for me. The days of DAWS have made us lazy I think. doc, you're a hardware guru. Do you only "hardware" your master buss or are you inserting on tracks or sub groups and if so, how do "you" handle the latency? Hey Rob - for clarity : 2012 Mac Cheesegrater upgraded to as fast as it can be running 10.14.6 with 64G ram AVID HDX2 w/ 120 i/o PT HDX 2019.10 - will upgrade to 2022.x if/when I can find some TIME!!! How do I deal with latency? I pull down the "options" menu and enable "delay compensation". Done. Never think about it again. Also, knowing the differences between "inserts" and "I/o" and how it affects latency is important. I am always putting hardware in inserts - not going thru outputs and inputs to get to my hardware. I have multiple pieces of hardware on : individual tracks. Group busses. 2 buss. Everywhere / anywhere I feel it's needed. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 7, 2022 13:04:43 GMT -6
Bro, you’re a pro ! I’m not, since switching to logic for under $300, I have not paid Avid $1,000’s, money in my pocket! Whatever floats your boat ! Thousands? Not sure how you could ever get there other than initial buying of hardware, but I can assure you in terms of "software", I don't think I've given AVID over $600 in the last 5+ years. The benefit it gives me is beyond calculation. As for the pro thing - it's got zero to do with "being a pro" and everything to do with creativity and speed and "logic". Sorry - not apple logic. LOL |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 7, 2022 13:51:47 GMT -6
I stopped following but I thought avid stopped its original real perpetual licenses and basically people were paying for each update.
Also, if you didn’t pay eventually you lost a discountex update price ?
I’m just talking buying the pt software compared to logic.
I owned pt’s for about 5 year’s, switched out around pt 11, logic daw was like 50% of the one avid pt update.
Subsequently, all my logic updates have been free, not true of PT’s.
Perhaps, there is someone here running vanilla, who can clarify their cumulative costs keeping PT’s up to date over last 5 year’s: logic was a one time cost under $250 usd I think .
Thx!
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 7, 2022 13:56:07 GMT -6
I called you a pro as you get write offs, and need to work in a software which is very pervasive. Workflow is personal but I get what I want done easily in logic so PT, just represents an increased ongoing cost to me: pass ! Glad its working for you as I’m confident your system is much more complex that mine! |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 7, 2022 17:13:52 GMT -6
I’m running non hdx pt on my home setup, haven’t paid a dime since I did the upgrade to pt12 ages ago. Now, since tracking at a friends place over the weekend and being able to use the newest version with melodyne integration, it’s given me pause and I’ll for sure be doing an hdx setup in the future studio space.
Also - if I want to hit my drum bus through a hardware piece, I can go out and back in and record it on a new track (not on an insert) and it times up perfectly in my time line.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 7, 2022 17:39:43 GMT -6
I understand you can buy a perpetual license, so that is like buying any other daw but how does the annual upgrade work and or what happens if you want to buy the next full update PT13?
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 7, 2022 17:42:30 GMT -6
I’ll let you know in 8 months to a year haha
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 7, 2022 18:30:48 GMT -6
That’s why you have two kidneys! |
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Post by Ward on Dec 8, 2022 12:54:33 GMT -6
I'm not so sure about that. My new MacBook Pro has the warmest sound I've ever heard from a laptop. I think combining my MBP with Professional Tools gives me the most professional anal-log sounds I've heard to date. All of my PCs (when I used to have them) needed to be re-amped to get that warmth. HAHA. Touché And on top of that, when you bang on the side of a new MBP, the reverb pluginz sproing just like an old Fender Twin. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2022 13:03:54 GMT -6
I’m not going to explain this right…but I swear there’s some kind of headroom difference when using Superior Drummer in Luna and Pro Tools. Like - I have a harder time getting SD sit in a mix compared to PT. Talking about just using the stereo plugin. Now - I’m sure it’s something I’m doing. Or maybe every placebo, but I seem to have more problems/takes longer to get things to gell in Luna in comparison to PT. Maybe I’m not hitting Luna meters as hard as I should. Or something to that affect. Luna has a 32-bit float mixer. Reaper, Logic, Cubase, and Pro Tools have 64-bit now. Logic and Pro Tools have 32-but rounding between plugs. Could be the rising low end rounding distorting? I presume UAD uses stable filters like u-he does but several hyped plugin manufacturers have unstable 32-bit filters still |
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