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Post by RealNoob on Nov 27, 2022 22:29:25 GMT -6
I tried PT again this weekend. I thought, what the heck, give it a whirl; used to use it, maybe I should again. I was lost as a goose with every feature/operation. The one thing that bothered me was a hardware insert insisting on the same in#/out#. I may try again another time.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Nov 27, 2022 22:45:05 GMT -6
I own a license to all DAW's available except Ableton. No, I don't like paying the annual on PT but no one else has been able to repeat the workflow, UI/UX and yes, there's a reason it's still the thing.
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Post by copperx on Nov 27, 2022 23:46:29 GMT -6
One big advantage of Pro Tools is great EuCon support. If you like using a control surface of any kind (you can also use iPads for free!), you can't beat Pro Tools.
Although I've heard Cubendo also has great support of EuCon, but I'm not sure how good it is.
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Post by tim on Nov 28, 2022 6:32:41 GMT -6
The one thing that bothered me was a hardware insert insisting on the same in#/out#. Yes! That’s one feature I really like in Logic plus the trim for insert send and return right in the same window. Would love this in PT. |
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Post by prene1 on Nov 28, 2022 17:54:20 GMT -6
Reaper user here.
Own licenses to every daw.
I open up PT export and keep it moving.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 29, 2022 10:59:51 GMT -6
Ok you couple of “own lic for every DAW” people, tell me when you used DP?
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Post by bchurch on Nov 29, 2022 11:33:20 GMT -6
I fled Avid Island a long time ago. Hell, it was still Digidesign if that tells you just how long.
I don't find ProTools to be inherently bad and still work in it when tracking outside of my hovel. But I'm taking the multitracks into Cubase and working from there for the duration (unless I've got to export back out to mix elsewhere - the batch feature comes in handy, or you can just use the 'freeze' function normally reserved for saving DSP resources and then snag the files out of the session).
My personal issue was the same in 2002 as it is for many users now: Avid treats users like ATM machines. I mean, it's just wantonly over the top how much they flex their waning industry-standard muscle to keep people on the teat. Back then I had well over 20-large tied up in my rig (just the hardware and cards), a Mix3 system with two extra farm cards (5 cards total). A PCI expansion chassis. 3 Apogee AD-8000's. All racked up with the computer and ready to go to any studio that needed to hire in a system/op for the project.
Then ProTools 6/HD dropped. And in an instant, I was hosed. Everyone wanted to cut at 96/24 because 96 is more than 48 and they apparently grew bat ears. The cost to upgrade with trade-in was merciless and beyond my pay grade.
At the same time, most studios had caught up and had legit systems and engineers who could run them, so hiring in both was not as lucrative - to say nothing of the fact I had grown tired of the politics and bs of being wanted by the artist/producer and loathed by the engineer. I just wanted to write and produce. A friend of mine was showing me Cubase SX3 on his PowerBook g4 and I couldn't believe how much he could get it do with tons of effects and virtual instruments running.
I switched over to a more 'native' setup - and, more importantly, fell in love with Cubase. ProTools has never been and will likely never be friendly to composers. And that's not to say I need notation or anything more complicated than above-average MIDI / scoring capabilities. The editing and mixing flow in Cubendo just feels faster and more intuitive to me.
Every year or so there's a .5 or 1.0 upgrade that you can snag for under $100 if you're patient. Ironically I am back on C11 while they work out the rest of v12's kinks. That's the one big issue - MacOS and Steinberg are a bad pair of angry, estranged parents. Not enough for me to build a PC, though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2022 11:37:12 GMT -6
Ok you couple of “own lic for every DAW” people, tell me when you used DP? I tried Digital Performer, it felt like a brain drill, and went right back to the Reaper with it’s rapid development because at least Reaper has Kenny Gioia videos to make the daw usable. Even then Kenny is one of those YouTubers misleading kids with “the stock daw is just as good” nonsense. The Reaper community is similarly toxic to MOTU Nation and the community similarly has its own paid blogs that are Pro Tools Expert but worse. Pro Tools was at least designed back in the day by people who had used a mixer and the Cubase mixer was designed by someone who had used a console. Some of these audio developers have never touched audio gear. For Reaper, Justin at least plays and Schwa programmed some of the Stillwell plugins back in the day. Logic for all its quirks at least has the good Logic Pro Help forum and Logic GEM but Apple only kills it where you must pay a premium for limited powered computer hardware or fan noise. |
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Post by bchurch on Nov 29, 2022 11:41:49 GMT -6
Cubase Pro's channel strip is so flipping good. Coming from a big "get it done on the console" SSL background, I can get 90% of my work done without touching a single plug-in or going out of the box for basic EQ/dynamics chores. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of outboard getting used, too - but if I had to do an entire mix start to finish with just Cubase Pro and the bundled plugins, I wouldn't have any problems doing so.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2022 11:45:59 GMT -6
I fled Avid Island a long time ago. Hell, it was still Digidesign if that tells you just how long. I don't find ProTools to be inherently bad and still work in it when tracking outside of my hovel. But I'm taking the multitracks into Cubase and working from there for the duration (unless I've got to export back out to mix elsewhere - the batch feature comes in handy, or you can just use the 'freeze' function normally reserved for saving DSP resources and then snag the files out of the session). My personal issue was the same in 2002 as it is for many users now: Avid treats users like ATM machines. I mean, it's just wantonly over the top how much they flex their waning industry-standard muscle to keep people on the teat. Back then I had well over 20-large tied up in my rig (just the hardware and cards), a Mix3 system with two extra farm cards (5 cards total). A PCI expansion chassis. 3 Apogee AD-8000's. All racked up with the computer and ready to go to any studio that needed to hire in a system/op for the project. Then ProTools 6/HD dropped. And in an instant, I was hosed. Everyone wanted to cut at 96/24 because 96 is more than 48 and they apparently grew bat ears. The cost to upgrade with trade-in was merciless and beyond my pay grade. At the same time, most studios had caught up and had legit systems and engineers who could run them, so hiring in both was not as lucrative - to say nothing of the fact I had grown tired of the politics and bs of being wanted by the artist/producer and loathed by the engineer. I just wanted to write and produce. A friend of mine was showing me Cubase SX3 on his PowerBook g4 and I couldn't believe how much he could get it do with tons of effects and virtual instruments running. I switched over to a more 'native' setup - and, more importantly, fell in love with Cubase. ProTools has never been and will likely never be friendly to composers. And that's not to say I need notation or anything more complicated than above-average MIDI / scoring capabilities. The editing and mixing flow in Cubendo just feels faster and more intuitive to me. Every year or so there's a .5 or 1.0 upgrade that you can snag for under $100 if you're patient. Ironically I am back on C11 while they work out the rest of v12's kinks. That's the one big issue - MacOS and Steinberg are a bad pair of angry, estranged parents. Not enough for me to build a PC, though. Reaper on PC and then Logic on Mac when Apple made it 200 dollars pretty much ate AVID’s lunch money. The free and reduced price versions of Pro Tools could not compete with those two daws that were untethered from hardware and had floating point mix engines. Cubase quickly caught up to them a few years later but Yamaha is a dinosaur and alienated many users enough to switch to Logic, Ableton, FL, and Reaper and VST3 pissed off so many people that U-he affiliated developers created their own open source plugin format. Reaper midi is a hodgepodge too; it’s a separate dll. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2022 11:50:12 GMT -6
Cubase Pro's channel strip is so flipping good. Coming from a big "get it done on the console" SSL background, I can get 90% of my work done without touching a single plug-in or going out of the box for basic EQ/dynamics chores. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of outboard getting used, too - but if I had to do an entire mix start to finish with just Cubase Pro and the bundled plugins, I wouldn't have any problems doing so. The channel strip is definitely made by people with ears for sure but the stock Cubase dynamics have the typical “stock plugin” stupidity just like infamous Logic and Reaper compressors. It’s pretty funny how all these DAWs have continued development but what they come with is worse than some ancient plugins. |
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Post by bchurch on Nov 29, 2022 12:07:42 GMT -6
I dunno, I seem to have no issue using the standard-issue channel dynamics for swiss-army-knife work. Is it a scalpel? A machete? A samurai sword? Nope. But gating/compressing tom mics or background vocals? Giddy up. Just like my 90's SSL days, I've got plenty of goodies to handle mission critical duties when the onboard tools aren't getting it done (as we all should).
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Post by drbill on Nov 29, 2022 14:04:45 GMT -6
Thanks for the conversation guys. I know a lot of you use PT and I appreciate you sharing your perspective You bet! But now we're transitioning to Cubase and Reaper.  Neither of which I can deal with. Add Logic to that list. |
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Post by RealNoob on Dec 5, 2022 12:37:41 GMT -6
OK, can't say why but felt compelled to try again and I am starting to get it for basic routing and mixing. I will rewire my 500 rack so I have the same ins and outs and then should be good. discovering some small things that I do appreciate and help me work faster.
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Post by bchurch on Dec 5, 2022 14:12:35 GMT -6
As we used to say as skateboarders, "run what'cha brung." Most peoples' issues with ProTools is Avid, not the application itself! All DAW's can pretty much do pretty much the same things... pretty much.
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Post by drumsound on Dec 5, 2022 16:39:04 GMT -6
Ok you couple of “own lic for every DAW” people, tell me when you used DP? I tried Digital Performer, it felt like a brain drill, and went right back to the Reaper with it’s rapid development because at least Reaper has Kenny Gioia videos to make the daw usable. Even then Kenny is one of those YouTubers misleading kids with “the stock daw is just as good” nonsense. The Reaper community is similarly toxic to MOTU Nation and the community similarly has its own paid blogs that are Pro Tools Expert but worse. Pro Tools was at least designed back in the day by people who had used a mixer and the Cubase mixer was designed by someone who had used a console. Some of these audio developers have never touched audio gear. For Reaper, Justin at least plays and Schwa programmed some of the Stillwell plugins back in the day. Logic for all its quirks at least has the good Logic Pro Help forum and Logic GEM but Apple only kills it where you must pay a premium for limited powered computer hardware or fan noise. I'd rather use a cassette 4-track and the Roland DDL by brother and I got in '89-90 than use Digital Performer. As we used to say as skateboarders, "run what'cha brung." Most peoples' issues with ProTools is Avid, not the application itself! All DAW's can pretty much do pretty much the same things... pretty much. It really is about HOW they do it, or more specifically how EASILY they do all the same things. |
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Post by christopher on Dec 5, 2022 18:01:23 GMT -6
It really is about HOW they do it, or more specifically how EASILY they do all the same things. Every PT session I’ve been a part of, it’s just easier to re-record until it sounds better. Probably it’s biggest advantage |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 5, 2022 20:35:00 GMT -6
It really is about HOW they do it, or more specifically how EASILY they do all the same things. Every PT session I’ve been a part of, it’s just easier to re-record until it sounds better. Probably it’s biggest advantage Do you mean how easy it is to playlist and or loop record? |
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Post by christopher on Dec 6, 2022 0:48:52 GMT -6
I mean you’re paying through the nose while the engineer is trying to figure out how to auto align or edit vocals. And you watch the clock go by, and realize in 3 hours of him screwing around you could have done 20 takes. So you lean over and go “hey, how about I just re-record it?” And he goes “ok, yeah”
- and I’m just as guilty as being that engineer! Luckily I had some talent tell me those words LOL.. on a serious note that client used to work with Eric Valentine for years. And then told me after him how they worked with the super nerdiest PT duo ever- a networked PT setup where the assistant in the other room would edit wavs on the fly and import them all doctored up after each take and back into PT for the main engineer’s session. $100k was the charge. Seemed insane, but the end results weren’t any better than what I’d get if he just went back and recorded again
(And no.. I didn’t get 100k LMAO.. more like $25/hr… welcome to the real world) reminds me of one of my all time fav songs actually
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 6, 2022 2:20:35 GMT -6
Unless you are a pro, why pay the costs of protools/avid ?
Are PT’s perceived advantages really so significant vs keeping that money in your pocket to buy better gear or what ever?
Have fun getting your head around PT’s again and do what works for you!
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Post by christopher on Dec 6, 2022 2:56:13 GMT -6
Like I’m saying, the biggest PRO of PT is room, gear, mics, experience, and lack of nerdy computer skills
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 6, 2022 3:11:39 GMT -6
When I needed session compatibility then the only game in town was and is Pro Tools. Now I’m working on only my own projects that don’t go out of house (so to speak) I’ve had the choice of a DAW based simply on what I enjoy working with, is the fastest for me to create music (I like to touch type my compositions - I love to work super quickly as I’m getting ideas down at the composing stage) So I’ve been able to choose Cubase 12 Pro. Which I’ve noticed is extremely popular with other composers too and as a bonus it’s a DAW that’s easy on the wallet |
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Post by hoot on Dec 6, 2022 5:22:09 GMT -6
My only PT gripe is that they haven’t done a HW latency ping feature after a DECADE of requests, unless you buy their converter.
Logic: snap my fingers with any device, done!
ProTools: start every mixing session feeding click tracks through bypassed gear, zoom in 100x to nudge waveforms by the sample, dig through the basement for any middle school textbook that’ll explain unit conversion math, and then still only be “mostly” confident…
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Post by tim on Dec 6, 2022 10:48:27 GMT -6
My only PT gripe is that they haven’t done a HW latency ping feature after a DECADE of requests, unless you buy their converter. Logic: snap my fingers with any device, done! ProTools: start every mixing session feeding click tracks through bypassed gear, zoom in 100x to nudge waveforms by the sample, dig through the basement for any middle school textbook that’ll explain unit conversion math, and then still only be “mostly” confident… I haven't experienced that with PT and hardware inserts so long as you're using HD native or HDX and not on a super old version of PT. I'm using Lynx converters. HW inserts with a thunderbolt interface is completely a different story and I think Avid purposefully makes it unusable that way. Even tweaking the delay settings doesn't get you there sadly. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2022 13:31:46 GMT -6
Well... at least we know that PC's sound more analog and warm with a smooth hi-end, than those harsh sounding Macs.  I'm not so sure about that. My new MacBook Pro has the warmest sound I've ever heard from a laptop. I think combining my MBP with Professional Tools gives me the most professional anal-log sounds I've heard to date. All of my PCs (when I used to have them) needed to be re-amped to get that warmth. |
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