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Post by bchurch on Sept 19, 2022 19:09:40 GMT -6
You know what I'm talking about. Mixes that aren't technically right - be it a bad recording, performances, too much processing, not enough processing, intentional or otherwise. I've got a few, but the one that comes immediately to mind is "I See You Are Also Wearing a Black T-Shirt" by Atlanta noise-deviants, Whores. The ultrasuperfuzz guitars, the insane amounts of compression, what have you. I absolutely love the mix. The music and mixdown's attitude compliment each other and that, to me, is one of the best things a mix engineer can bring to a song. |
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Post by jmoose on Sept 19, 2022 20:10:22 GMT -6
Hmm... next I suppose you'll tell us something scientific..?
Love that band. But I'm not sure I'd call those mixes 'wrong' if anything? I'd bet the farm they sweated every detail & labored over that stuff. Very intentional delivery. There's purpose & intent.
Artwork... like a canvas that's an orange square. With a small blue circle in the upper right corner. But its 20 feet tall and 20 feet wide. Didn't happen randomly.
If anything all "rock" music should come across like that. Over the top. Falls flat if it doesn't. The intensity... which yeah, from performances to mix was intentional. Years ago I did an EP for the Cro Mags... remember one of the studio assistants or someone, while mixing saying something like "that's the one... that's the one that makes me wanna grab a skateboard & drop into a pool that's way too sketchy"
Related... Joe Barresi said something like "if it doesn't make me wanna drive fast & shoot people its not done"
Anyway..? Wrong mixes? This is going to get some looks but I'd say Jeff Buckley's Grace. Excellent music. Not an excellent sounding album. Half of it feels like rough mixes. No depth.
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Post by sean on Sept 19, 2022 20:59:56 GMT -6
The beauty of lo-fi/home recording in the 90’s in particular is that if the songs are good and appeal to you your brain fills in the gaps of what’s lacking fidelity wise. Like, when I put on “Exit Flagger” or “Quality of Armor” or “Echos Myron” by Guided by Voices I don’t really notice/care how it sounds, it’s so obviously “bad” that the sonics aren’t what you focus on, and instead all I hear is the melody and intention behind the song. Then, when you see a band like that live it all comes together…like “oh shit this is how it sounds in my dreams but it’s real!”
Now, it’s so easy to make things sound “good” I don’t even know how to make a recording sound that “bad good” 😆
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Post by phdamage on Sept 19, 2022 21:17:23 GMT -6
I feel like you could toss out almost any definitive punk or hardcore record prior to the late 90s and most til say 2005 or so as examples. Hell, the snare on the Rites of Spring records sounds like a plastic bucket! And don’t get me started on early SST releases! Man, what I wouldn’t give for the multitracks of Damaged or My War! Or even jump ahead to the early 90s like the Left for Dead split with Acrid or Shotmaker’s Crayon Club - just all the stuff recorded on ADAT and DA88s. It’s all just proof that a good song can survive anything!
As an aside regarding the band mentioned in the original post, I still cannot believe any band of all dudes would have that be their band name in 2022 (I know they have been around a few years, but still!)! If your band is that dumb, no part of me believes you are making good music.
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 19, 2022 21:22:23 GMT -6
Like Hüsker Dü?
Or Raw Power?
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by phdamage on Sept 19, 2022 21:30:20 GMT -6
Like Hüsker Dü? Or Raw Power? Cheers, Geoff Admittedly never fell in love with Husker Du. Was thinking specifically about Black Flag, Minutemen, Descendents. Raw Power the record or the band? The record, i would consider more proto-punk, so I wouldn't lump that in with my previous statement. The band, I have never heard recorded, but I'd bet their early records don't sound so hot. |
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 19, 2022 21:42:54 GMT -6
Like Hüsker Dü? Or Raw Power? Cheers, Geoff Admittedly never fell in love with Husker Du. Was thinking specifically about Black Flag, Minutemen, Descendents. Raw Power the record or the band? The record, i would consider more proto-punk, so I wouldn't lump that in with my previous statement. The band, I have never heard recorded, but I'd bet their early records don't sound so hot. Raw Power the record. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by sirthought on Sept 19, 2022 21:46:51 GMT -6
This is just too broad of a topic.
I hate the drum sound on most Eagles records if I'm actually paying attention to them. Sound like the drums are in a cupboard. But the band obviously has whatever it was that made them a success.
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Post by sirthought on Sept 19, 2022 21:47:22 GMT -6
This should be in the off topic forum.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2022 22:03:43 GMT -6
Hmm... next I suppose you'll tell us something scientific..? Love that band. But I'm not sure I'd call those mixes 'wrong' if anything? I'd bet the farm they sweated every detail & labored over that stuff. Very intentional delivery. There's purpose & intent. Artwork... like a canvas that's an orange square. With a small blue circle in the upper right corner. But its 20 feet tall and 20 feet wide. Didn't happen randomly. If anything all "rock" music should come across like that. Over the top. Falls flat if it doesn't. The intensity... which yeah, from performances to mix was intentional. Years ago I did an EP for the Cro Mags... remember one of the studio assistants or someone, while mixing saying something like "that's the one... that's the one that makes me wanna grab a skateboard & drop into a pool that's way too sketchy" Related... Joe Barresi said something like "if it doesn't make me wanna drive fast & shoot people its not done" Anyway..? Wrong mixes? This is going to get some looks but I'd say Jeff Buckley's Grace. Excellent music. Not an excellent sounding album. Half of it feels like rough mixes. No depth. This 100% Same with black metal. If it’s not fucked up, it sounds wrong |
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Post by christopher on Sept 19, 2022 22:26:17 GMT -6
The only reason I’m here was to try and figure out how to make bad mixes. Every engineer is always trying to be louder, more balanced, more full range, more fidelity than the next guy. It’s pretty boring, I need some contrast in my fidelity and timbre
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Post by jmoose on Sept 19, 2022 22:55:59 GMT -6
Now, it’s so easy to make things sound “good” I don’t even know how to make a recording sound that “bad good” 😆 That's probably a whole other topic for a whole other time... but one thing I've noticed over & over again? People can listen to the same exact piece of music and come away with wildly different impressions. And sometimes none of those impressions have anything to do with cold hard reality. Keeping on the 90s indie rock thing... Just before all the lockdown weirdness I was talking to a band that wanted to do something... ask what their high water mark is? Favorite albums? Drive Like Jehu - Yank Crime... we love that sound of guys ripping in a basement... Well, ok... but that album wasn't produced in a basement it was a studio that also hosted Pink Floyd and Steely Dan... like a real room with real gear. It might have the impression of a basement recording but that wasn't the case. They didn't believe me until I pulled the credits. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2022 1:11:00 GMT -6
i finally listened to the link in the original post. what? that has a modern pop rock / pop metal sound. go listen to some merzbow
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 20, 2022 1:13:29 GMT -6
This is just too broad of a topic. I hate the drum sound on most Eagles records if I'm actually paying attention to them. Sound like the drums are in a cupboard. But the band obviously has whatever it was that made them a success. +1 I think this thread is a testament to .... It's the content that really counts not the wrapper. Nice to have both but the former is essential for success. |
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Post by chessparov on Sept 20, 2022 8:05:54 GMT -6
"What Is Right Place, Wrong Time", by Dr. John. (Drops mic)  Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Sept 20, 2022 8:08:44 GMT -6
"too broad"?
You mean like The Runaways, or the Go Go's?
Chris
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Post by ericn on Sept 20, 2022 9:52:22 GMT -6
"too broad"? You mean like The Runaways, or the Go Go's? Chris More like Goo Goo Dolls” Broadway “ the JJP just sucks😎 |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 20, 2022 10:26:24 GMT -6
You know what I'm talking about. Mixes that aren't technically right - be it a bad recording, performances, too much processing, not enough processing, intentional or otherwise. I've got a few, but the one that comes immediately to mind is "I See You Are Also Wearing a Black T-Shirt" by Atlanta noise-deviants, Whores. The ultrasuperfuzz guitars, the insane amounts of compression, what have you. I absolutely love the mix. The music and mixdown's attitude compliment each other and that, to me, is one of the best things a mix engineer can bring to a song. The Misfits first album. My fist impression was that it was recorded by someone who didn't know what he was doing and mixed by someone who was half deaf. A couple months later I realized that for what it was, it was perfect. |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 20, 2022 10:33:58 GMT -6
This is just too broad of a topic. I hate the drum sound on most Eagles records if I'm actually paying attention to them. Sound like the drums are in a cupboard. But the band obviously has whatever it was that made them a success. I would never call any mix I've heard by the Eagles "wrong". I might call some "boring" or "too safe". Overly commercial, sure. Occasioonally they got one right - "Lyin' Eyes" was great. "Heartache Tonight", too. |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 20, 2022 10:37:27 GMT -6
"too broad"? You mean like The Runaways, or the Go Go's? Chris No, not "Too broad" - Four or five broads, yeah! |
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Post by robo on Sept 20, 2022 10:40:36 GMT -6
A common thread to Yank Crime and other indie/punk/underground references here is how damn loud the guitars are, thus how quiet the vocals are and how underwhelming the rhythm section sounds. I think a lot of that is a reaction to the drum machine/synth commercial sounds of the 80’s and early 90’s. It sounded bold at the time. Nowadays there’s plenty of non-commercial synth-based stuff, so we’ve got different expectations for what is “edgy”.
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Post by phdamage on Sept 20, 2022 10:49:01 GMT -6
A common thread to Yank Crime and other indie/punk/underground references here is how damn loud the guitars are, thus how quiet the vocals are and how underwhelming the rhythm section sounds. I think a lot of that is a reaction to the drum machine/synth commercial sounds of the 80’s and early 90’s. It sounded bold at the time. Nowadays there’s plenty of non-commercial synth-based stuff, so we’ve got different expectations for what is “edgy”. man, Jehu (and especially Yank Crime) are awfully high on my all time list! it's funny, since I never got so stoked on Rocket (tho the first 5 tracks on Scream, Dracula, Scream are perfect!), I always assumed Froberg was the reason Jehu were amazing, but when they played the reunion shows, I realized it's all Reiss! Wow, what a riff machine! and Froberg may has well have not been playing a guitar. I still use Rome Plows as a reference - those guitars are searing!! That's my bright reference and I use "End of the Road" by Neurosis for the dark reference - if my mix is somewhere between those, I'm good! |
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Post by popmann on Sept 20, 2022 12:39:39 GMT -6
I just don't think about this...not this way, very often. The only time I've really noticed "lo fi" being a positive is Sheryl Crow's second record. That thing has a kind of aural vibe that at the time my first impression is STILL my thought: is pretty bad sounding. BUT...artistically, having seen her live a bunch of the years...thing is--some of those songs/arrangements don't work as well without what I'd call the "studio lo fi sound design"...in combination with her willingness to I dunno--get drunk AF and pull chest voice to "near enough for rock and roll pitch"....? If it Makes You Happy....Every Day Is a Winding Road--these need the chorus sung...strained...even if that's pitchy. The sort of definition you get from a DI guitar like the guitars on "every Day"...when you play that live with a nice guitar and amps...eh...they're not really "whole parts" if that makes sense. They sound like gated/edited little bits of DI guitar stacked up....different iterations of her band have done them more and less effectively (IMO)...but...
I HAVE long espoused the philosophy, though, that for a certain market segment, simply producing a recording that is clean and professionally balanced IS a negative to their perception of the performance. So, I get it. Still, I enjoyed Sheryl's recent Ryman live record more than I typically do live records I think because it kind of evened out the sonics--making it a celebration of her catalog of writing.
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Post by jmoose on Sept 20, 2022 13:56:17 GMT -6
A common thread to Yank Crime and other indie/punk/underground references here is how damn loud the guitars are, thus how quiet the vocals are and how underwhelming the rhythm section sounds. I think a lot of that is a reaction to the drum machine/synth commercial sounds of the 80’s and early 90’s. It sounded bold at the time. Nowadays there’s plenty of non-commercial synth-based stuff, so we’ve got different expectations for what is “edgy”. Yeah... maybe. But there were bands using drum machines in that genre and time frame... Big Black? They credited the drums on to "Roland" - not the guy, the company. Ministry? Tag them 'industrial' if you must but its still lumped into punk/underground. You weren't hearing that stuff on the radio, I got it from Thrasher magazine & other skater kids. This was 1986?! |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Sept 20, 2022 15:03:03 GMT -6
For me the first four Rod Stewart LPs are a sonic mess, but the mess fits the music perfectly.
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