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Post by johneppstein on Sept 18, 2022 8:35:23 GMT -6
Looks interesting. Wonder if it's an electret?
Edit: It is, as are a lot of DPAs. Nothing wrong with that, but good to know.
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Post by Ward on Sept 18, 2022 10:19:11 GMT -6
It's fine. Snappy but darker which can work... doesn't get too much down past 30hz which is fine by me. Heretic!! A Neumann U47 fet is absolutely delicious on outside kick. Build a rolled up foam rubber 'tunnel' around the kick and keep the U47fet inside it about 1to 2 feet back.
And speaking of lowly dynamics that work on outside BD duties? That old moldy smelling AKG D112 sitting in the back of your locker can work as well. So does a BLUE Kiwi in Figure of 8 or hypercardioid... although I like to use mine as a pseudo shotgun at the crotch to capture side of bass drum and snare dum shells.
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 18, 2022 10:31:13 GMT -6
Looks interesting. Wonder if it's an electret?
Edit: It is, as are a lot of DPAs. Nothing wrong with that, but good to know.
yeah if I had to guess it's likely a modified 4011a to take the higher SPL.
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Post by mcirish on Sept 18, 2022 16:23:13 GMT -6
I've stuck with an AT4047 on the outside of the kick for the last few years. I might find something a bit more euphoric but this works fine and gets sort of that FET47 thing. Not a whole lot of character but it picks up the true sound well and balances out the Beta 52a I have in the kick.
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Post by kevinnyc on Sept 18, 2022 16:49:44 GMT -6
Pretty much all my favs have already been mentioned love an EV n/d868 on kick! also really like the X1D (been using it on the batter side.. 'knee' position, but it seems to work well on either end.. thanks to you for that suggestion Tony) m88 and d12 also give me things I like down there.. but I'd pick the above first if I had to choose Someone also mentioned an r44ce. I love that batter side .. too afraid to place that out front. Makes me nervous enough down there as it is... but the bottom end is glorious Rented a 47fet .. had to know, but it just didn't do it for me .. the problem could be me It’s funny because I almost never hear anyone talk about the N/D 868….for years and years I wasn’t happy with anything on outside kick. The 868 just sounds right to me.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
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Post by ericn on Sept 18, 2022 17:23:15 GMT -6
Looks interesting. Wonder if it's an electret?
Edit: It is, as are a lot of DPAs. Nothing wrong with that, but good to know.
The biggest problem of most purposes built kick mics is the particular mic either works or the designers priorities just don’t mesh with that kick and drummer, most would be 90 times more useful if they were designed to be flat and let the AE decide if it needs EQ.
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 18, 2022 23:24:52 GMT -6
Looks interesting. Wonder if it's an electret?
Edit: It is, as are a lot of DPAs. Nothing wrong with that, but good to know.
The biggest problem of most purposes built kick mics is the particular mic either works or the designers priorities just don’t mesh with that kick and drummer, most would be 90 times more useful if they were designed to be flat and let the AE decide if it needs EQ. like i said, I'd bet this is a modified 4011a to handle the higher SPL. But frequency response wise it's pretty flat. Small lift at 10k is all which actually looks more like a 4041a. I'd bet that you could use this thing probably in a LOT of other ways that just a kick drum mic.
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Post by vintagetubelug on Sept 19, 2022 0:34:15 GMT -6
Heiserman H47 fet outside and/or Alien8
D12 in
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Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Sept 19, 2022 11:57:45 GMT -6
As someone fairly new to the engineering side of things (but MUCH more than experienced in the drumming-side of things), how much weight is given to things like just swapping out the actual kick drum, or moving whatever mic you have around a few inches, etc?
I have basically every kick size and shape available. What does something like a Fet 47 offer in the final mix that tuning the correct drum combined with mic placement and EQ can't overcome? Does it come down to an engineer's familiarity with a given mic which leads to faster mixing and results?
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Post by christopher on Sept 19, 2022 12:21:59 GMT -6
For me, when mixing stuff where they used a 47 FET outer kick I notice the kit bleed is plenty present and it sounds very sweet. The cymbals etc kind of have a nice round body to them, and compressing the outer kick gives a classic glue and warmth to the whole kit, sort of like a 3rd overhead that is center panned. And it’s also picking up lows from the toms and snare, so boosting lows helps the whole kit a little. I think that’s why it’s such a great mic in that spot.
I also like the wurst/crotch mic for that sort of thing though, so I’d rather put any pricier mics in that spot. It’s hard for me to justify using a $4500 mic down in front of the front head. Seems like I could find a better spot? And I sort of like the ultra clear sub that a cheaper speedy transformerless mic brings
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Post by vintagetubelug on Sept 19, 2022 13:00:36 GMT -6
As someone fairly new to the engineering side of things (but MUCH more than experienced in the drumming-side of things), how much weight is given to things like just swapping out the actual kick drum, or moving whatever mic you have around a few inches, etc? I have basically every kick size and shape available. What does something like a Fet 47 offer in the final mix that tuning the correct drum combined with mic placement and EQ can't overcome? Does it come down to an engineer's familiarity with a given mic which leads to faster mixing and results?
These are two different things that are both equally important - to me at least!
Your first point - getting the right drum for the sound you're looking for. Source is always paramount. Get that right and the engineering is easy.
The second point is about using a FET 47 or two mics - in/out - in general. While I love a FET47 because it just thrives on kick out, the magic of having two mics on the kick isn't so much which exact mics you have. Having two mics provides a low end bloom when you get the phase relationship between them correct. A little 2+2=5 type of thing. I've used two dynamic mics with success, although I find it more interesting to have a condenser and a dynamic. I find engineers/producers also appreciate the two mic setup as it gives them more options on the production/mix side.
I found this inexpensive drum recording course by JJ Blair to be incredibly helpful. His lesson on phase was invaluable to me.
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Post by drbill on Sept 19, 2022 14:34:59 GMT -6
Beyond performance and the drummer, choice of drum and tuning trumps everything else. Except maybe the room, which for drums, is kind an interactive part of the kit itself. Mics and placement come a distant 3rd.
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Post by schmalzy on Sept 20, 2022 15:29:44 GMT -6
As someone fairly new to the engineering side of things (but MUCH more than experienced in the drumming-side of things), how much weight is given to things like just swapping out the actual kick drum, or moving whatever mic you have around a few inches, etc? I have basically every kick size and shape available. What does something like a Fet 47 offer in the final mix that tuning the correct drum combined with mic placement and EQ can't overcome? Does it come down to an engineer's familiarity with a given mic which leads to faster mixing and results? Some more thoughts around this but not directly answering any of your questions, I guess. More like...audio engineering musings around your questions, maybe? The right instrument with the right preparation (tuning, heads, sticks/beaters) is always step one. Tweaking the right instrument with the right preparation (tuning, heads, sticks/beaters) is often for me the last step. Sometimes you have more options than others. If you have every kick size, bearing edge shape, material, and head choice available and the time to try 'em then you're going to be in a great starting spot and have lots of options for tweaking it at the end. For better or worse, though, mics are necessary for sound capture and are absolutely not transparent in capturing that acoustic sound you've crafted. Mics are basically unreliable narrators giving their subjective opinion about the sound of the drum...and that opinion can change if it sees something from a different perspective. A microphone's opinion will inform the transmission of the sound of the drums to the recording medium so choosing the right microphone and position will provide the conditions to give us a favorable-to-our-intentions audio opinion of that really acoustically-great-sounding kick drum. If the mic has a good vocabulary and likes describing a detailed scene then you'll get a detailed account of the kick drum. If it is a little more focused on certain aspects of sound or has preferences about the sorts of things it will tell you about, you'll get a detailed description of those certain aspects. If it's prefers to sit back, space out, and let the sound wash over itself then the description of the drum will be a little more blurry but full of whimsy. Different mics in different positions are going to have different opinions about tweaks to the initial sound. I think a lot of people rely on a few different mics for the different uses in an effort to minimize variables and nail down the quickest ways to get where they intend to go. For example: an SM57 will never give you strong and tight 40Hz or a really beautiful capture of 3kHz. But it can give you a great 80hz and a really forward midrange sometimes with the downside of being really fluffy in the 300Hz area. My AT4040 gives me great 60Hz plus a good knock in the 800Hz area without seeming too pokey or forward or fluffy. That knowledge in my back pocket, I pick an instrument that makes the sounds to fill a role in an arrangement, I pick a mic that is flattering to the instrument's ability to fill that role, then I tweak the instrument again to make the result of the instrument and the microphone work even better in the arrangement. That was a lot of rambling from a person who doesn't feel like editing an EP's worth of guitar tracks right now...but he also knows he has to get back to it soon. My apologies if that's a really scattered bunch of ideas or if there are too many different metaphors flying around. Just a peek into my scattershot brain desperately trying to entertain itself and distract itself from editing guitars.
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Post by Ward on Sept 21, 2022 6:51:49 GMT -6
As someone fairly new to the engineering side of things (but MUCH more than experienced in the drumming-side of things), how much weight is given to things like just swapping out the actual kick drum, or moving whatever mic you have around a few inches, etc? I have basically every kick size and shape available. What does something like a Fet 47 offer in the final mix that tuning the correct drum combined with mic placement and EQ can't overcome? Does it come down to an engineer's familiarity with a given mic which leads to faster mixing and results? What a refreshing positive outlook !
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