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Post by RealNoob on Sept 16, 2022 17:58:02 GMT -6
One aspect missing from this conversation is time. In my experience, I've noticed that differences not obvious when comparing gear and plug-ins can show themselves over time. Once you notice a thing, you notice it all the time, and it affects your listening experience. I've learned that the very process of A/B style blind testing can affect your results. Bob Olhsson has spoken about this kind of testing being extremely difficult to do scientifically. "Immediacy" can mean many things. I also think we tend to ignore how things feel, giving how they sound preference. That's natural, but how something feels is usually my first criteria. Be it a mix, a mic, a plug, etc. Immediacy as I meant in the OP is bringing the music or elements towards you - related to but not just punch. The first time I heard this was when I moved from an interface mic pre to a Daking years ago and additionally got the room out of the mic. What once seemed distant was now more up front. Even on a well recorded track, running a good mix through the elysia skulpter pre.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Sept 16, 2022 20:05:03 GMT -6
Immediacy. I'd say whatever gets you closer to getting the sound in your head out there, that's the way to go.
Tracking though? Whole different ballgame and I would definitely say hardware has an advantage there.
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 17, 2022 2:09:51 GMT -6
Fun for me, was the tangible immediate experience/effect of reaching out snd turning a knob, pushing a button, manipulating a plug in just isn’t the same . Even using something like Console Control 1? I have Console 1 and the tactile feedback is very good. And the software is pretty good too, though not something I’d use on the stereo bus. I might redo the ABX of setting up the STT-1 channel strip (solid state path) getting the very best tone out of a snare (for example) and then try matching it with a few of the strips on Console 1 then the truth telling double blind ABX test. They both have a tactile surface to use, so then it’s a straight test of tone. In a mix I’m not at all convinced there’s a difference to worry about when using clean solid state tools over quality digital save for the stereo mix bus. In that respect I’m still very much hybrid in my approach.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 17, 2022 5:25:35 GMT -6
I liked console control but sold it. I didn't find it, as immediate as actual hardware,
In terms of user immediacy ,the other thing I didn't like was how it too has a little hierarchy of how you have to use it, as opposed to just doing what you want.
Also, you end up, just buying more software to use console 1, so a little redundant.
I ended up hybrid, as well, good OB on the way in, fewer plugs in mix and an ssl clone on my mix bus with typically a few plugs: mastering eq and a limiter.
If I had the dough, I would get good OB eq and limiter for my master buss.
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deif
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by deif on Sept 17, 2022 6:41:47 GMT -6
What I’ve come to realize over the years is that I’m too much of a tinkerer to work ITB. As soon as I load a plug-in in my session I feel this urge to change things and try things. Same goes for midi. Change a note here, move a note there. An hour later you’re digging trough presets and not accomplishing much. I’ve wasted so much time messing around with plugins and VIs. That can be fun, but if I’m trying to get stuff done it just doesn’t work for me. I bought a guitar amp a few months ago after 10+ years of using software emulations, and playing guitar became fun again. That led me into buying a stereo mic pre. It happens to be the first mic pre I ever bought and later sold when I got into the UAD Apollo Unison thing because the Apollo sounded close enough.
For me, the beauty of instruments, guitar pedals and hardware recording gear is not only the sound, but the way I can fully interact with it. Get a sound I like and move on.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 17, 2022 7:01:18 GMT -6
The guitar/amp model works for me as I am so used to tweaking them for a sound you dig, then punch record and go: focus on performance.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 7:49:43 GMT -6
From my perspective after doing a recent refit there's so many advantages to HW, especially with a small mixer in the loop. No issues with HW inserts, no latency concerns, no taxing my CPU, no plugin version 2 sonic "upgrades", no masses of the same plugin emulation with variable quality and I don't have to deal with a slurry of authentication systems. I can preview the mix as I go along without worrying about delay compensation or some sort of screwy timing problems. Also like others I find HW far more forgiving than plugs plus I can push them further as well.
I don't need HDX either and that's good because for the price of it I could buy another SSL Big Six, a 10 slot 500 chassis filled with top shelf stuff and maybe a couple of 2U rackmount comps as well. HW is only expensive dependant on what you need and what you're trying to achieve, I was looking for something inbetween an all HW 70's and modern production setup. That's a hybrid(ish) setup and yeah it cost a fair bit but this is my "final studio" so whatever.
On the other hand there's some plugs I couldn't live without, no 3 or 4 band will ever be as accurate as an ITB EQ, I went for mojo HW pieces only and to be fair it can be a bit overbearing at times. Lots of harmonic distortion, spillage, crosstalk and all that wonderful jazz we associate with HW accumulates into a big wad of wide sounding, loud, in your face big bass music that likes to make small speakers go what the? I've had to use ozone to reign it back in, also I do like my room sims and there's a few magical UA plugs I just didn't want to leave behind.
After going hybrid I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. Sure I will stick to the premise that a decent tracking channel strip with some good plugs is all you really need but all this "mojo" HW (which some of it hasn't even been modelled) does make life a lot easier.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 17, 2022 15:46:55 GMT -6
Mostly lurking, as much discussed is way beyond my level.
But the general drift, makes me miss my RNC. Still considering the RNLA too. Chris
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Post by bchurch on Sept 17, 2022 15:56:51 GMT -6
After going hybrid I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. Sure I will stick to the premise that a decent tracking channel strip with some good plugs is all you really need but all this "mojo" HW (which some of it hasn't even been modelled) does make life a lot easier. Hailing from the era where CPU or DSP cards had to be economized, when converters were still a bit "not quite there" (Digidesign 888/24, I'm looking at you...), I'm completely absolutely unequivocally fine with printing analog eq, compression, what-have-you, on the way in. Same goes for guitars, I *could* just leave the DI'd tracks with sims running on them, but meh.... there is a lot to be said for capturing the sound of the performance, not just the performance itself. It'll never sound that way again. It may not be lightning, but keep bottling it - you never know. Granted, if we're talking about something more corporate or "professional" ( whatever that even means anymore), yes, make sure you're leaving options open. I'm thinking more about the projects we want to do, not the ones that pay the bills. I mentioned a few ticks back in this thread that most of the stuff in my racks doesn't have a plug-in version. And even if there was....
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 17, 2022 17:00:45 GMT -6
I find my goal is about getting the most action from my digital tools, and that seems to be tracking with great instruments and great hardware and mics.
Plugins can't generate extra vibe very well, they need the basic ingredients to be there baked in to get some decent action from them.
Then on my stereo mix bus I have my hardware pieces that plugins can't even begin to replace, which for my is my Thermionic compressor and EQ.
So great hardware going in, great hardware going out, and some class leading digital tools ITB gives me the best of both worlds. My version of hybrid recording.
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Post by tim on Nov 2, 2022 13:44:28 GMT -6
Mo blinking lights = mo better ! YUP!!! The plugins don't give me this kinda feel.... And feel makes creativity mo better too!! View Attachment
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Post by tim on Nov 2, 2022 14:24:41 GMT -6
I think there’s something psychological, and tangible, about having your hands on an actual knob. It allows part of your brain to relax because you’re not looking at a screen and for me, I listen better. Exactly! but even if it's a hardware controller I still find I'm constantly looking up at the screen to "see" my change as I twist the knob. Somehow with hardware I listen better despite looking at the hardware.
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