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Post by bchurch on Sept 14, 2022 17:53:35 GMT -6
The production is all over the place and always has been. Trends come and go. Auto tune is going to be like 80s drums, dating most things instantly and sounded awful when not used for insane effect like the real In the Air Tonight, Born in the USA, and Sisters of Mercy snares. The difference is these sounded cool while auto tune is used to hide crap. The Seattle sound only did it when they had something that sounded like a commercial rock record. Metallica only blew up when they sounded like Bon Jovi’s New Jersey. Glam Metal came back in the 90s as pop country and Pantera. I'm referring to the autotune-as-effect trend, which has been going on for twenty years and counting. Listen to any rap or r&b track in the top 5,000 right now. You guessed it - robotune. They're relishing in it, not hiding it. Metallica was doing just fine before they formed the unholy alliance with Mr. Rock. A Grammy and gazillions of fans around the globe is not not "blowing up". And, despite their 80's output, Pantera in the 90's hasn't one shred of glam anything associated with it. You can rag on pop country, leave "Vulgar Display" alone. That LP is like being beaten with a shovel, not being hit on by four men in lipstick and spandex tights.
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Post by drbill on Sept 14, 2022 18:37:53 GMT -6
I think it's awesome that this tool is helping John make his music sound better - quicker. I want to hear his thoughts 30 months in though.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Sept 14, 2022 20:28:35 GMT -6
Tough crowd over at gear space. Maybe I suck…and who knows this is just after a day of trying it. But I really loved what stabilizer did. Now - I didn’t just run the assistant and do nothing - I tweaked to get it where I wanted. Tweaked the eq, stabilizer, impact, imager, maximizer. So - yeah - it wasn’t perfect after the first analysis. Maybe some people expect it to be perfect. Anyone use the Sonible Smart Limit? Like I posted over at GS, folks saying "the results of Ozone's auto-master sound terrible" might very well be starting with terrible mixes. If Stabilizer is making massive changes, that suggests to me that there are glaring EQ errors at the mix level. Folks are saying that Imager is setting their low end to 100% width...that's just plain nuts. Most of what Imager does on my work is narrow it, and it never does anything in either direction by more than 10-20%. And I'm probably what would fall into the category of "professional mixer, but fairly mediocre". I think the issue at GS is folks who simply aren't generating good mixes are disappointed that Ozone doesn't fix their shoddy work. I tried it out with Johnkenn posts as... why not? Used a more rock mix with live drums, keys, etc. I found that after doing the AI pass and listening I had to disable Stabilizer because during the quieter moments in the verses where it's bed tracks, keys, vocals and some lead guitar it would jack the snare EQ way up and pop it out of the mix. Much brighter just for a few seconds. Not saying it's a bad tool, I dig some of the lowend shit it's doing but there might be other things going on than just mix errors.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 14, 2022 21:53:48 GMT -6
Like I posted over at GS, folks saying "the results of Ozone's auto-master sound terrible" might very well be starting with terrible mixes. If Stabilizer is making massive changes, that suggests to me that there are glaring EQ errors at the mix level. Folks are saying that Imager is setting their low end to 100% width...that's just plain nuts. Most of what Imager does on my work is narrow it, and it never does anything in either direction by more than 10-20%. And I'm probably what would fall into the category of "professional mixer, but fairly mediocre". I think the issue at GS is folks who simply aren't generating good mixes are disappointed that Ozone doesn't fix their shoddy work. I tried it out with Johnkenn posts as... why not? Used a more rock mix with live drums, keys, etc. I found that after doing the AI pass and listening I had to disable Stabilizer because during the quieter moments in the verses where it's bed tracks, keys, vocals and some lead guitar it would jack the snare EQ way up and pop it out of the mix. Much brighter just for a few seconds. Not saying it's a bad tool, I dig some of the lowend shit it's doing but there might be other things going on than just mix errors. Yeah - you can pull down what the stabilizer is doing percentage wise - low, mid or high. It can tend to get things a little too bright.
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 14, 2022 23:57:25 GMT -6
Like I posted over at GS, folks saying "the results of Ozone's auto-master sound terrible" might very well be starting with terrible mixes. If Stabilizer is making massive changes, that suggests to me that there are glaring EQ errors at the mix level. Folks are saying that Imager is setting their low end to 100% width...that's just plain nuts. Most of what Imager does on my work is narrow it, and it never does anything in either direction by more than 10-20%. And I'm probably what would fall into the category of "professional mixer, but fairly mediocre". I think the issue at GS is folks who simply aren't generating good mixes are disappointed that Ozone doesn't fix their shoddy work. I tried it out with Johnkenn posts as... why not? Used a more rock mix with live drums, keys, etc. I found that after doing the AI pass and listening I had to disable Stabilizer because during the quieter moments in the verses where it's bed tracks, keys, vocals and some lead guitar it would jack the snare EQ way up and pop it out of the mix. Much brighter just for a few seconds. Not saying it's a bad tool, I dig some of the lowend shit it's doing but there might be other things going on than just mix errors. That’s where the speed and percentage controlls really come in handy. If the mix veers from the target eq curve, stabilizer (and indeed any “auto” eq) will have a freak out. btw, In my own work I haven’t had it’s global control over 50%, and then I even taper the individual bands down further. So it’s generally operating at like 10-20%, which incidentally is rough,y where I’ve set gullfoss over the years.
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Post by bchurch on Sept 15, 2022 7:36:51 GMT -6
I could see this being really useful automating in and out of mix scenes - use one instance or settings for the A section then fade those into a different setting for the B and so on and so forth.
Of all the things the DAW-era has brought us, the ability to do granular-level automation to literally any parameter in its environment can not be overstated. I do all kinds of whizbangery on my bus processing - automating compression/limiter/eq settings to emphasize passages or crescendo/descrescendo for example. Anything to make the end result more captivating. Beats that old, beat-up StudioMaster mixer I had 30+ years ago, let me just say that....
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 15, 2022 8:43:51 GMT -6
My take on all this is fairly straight forward.
I use three mastering processors.
DMG Equilibrium Sonoris Mastering Compressor TC 6000 series Brickwall Limiter
If I'm making EQ adjustments of more than 0.5 to 1dB Reducing dynamic range more than 1dB Limiting more than 1-3dB GR
Then my mix is telling me to go back and fix it.
Processing a stereo file is an enormous compromise if it's a mix of a multi-rack recording.
Unless you no longer have access to the multi-track, I see no point in imposing such a compromise on your music, no matter how fancy pants the processing is.
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Post by wiz on Sept 16, 2022 18:27:55 GMT -6
I was having problems... turns out I am just a dumbass....
back later with a review
Here I am back later.... 8)
I currently use ozone 9...
short answer...I am not really digging what 10 is doing.... now it could be I am just super familiar with 9 and maybe over time 10 will grow on me... but atm..I use ozone 9 and the SSL Fusion Plug ins for my 2 buss ..... and I have it sort of dialled in to where I like it. I like the low end focus control in 9 which is missing in 10...? I guess the new stabiliser and other plugs in 10 fulfils that roll for you.
With 9 I can basically run the mastering assistant.. and then add low end focus and imager after what it comes up with and I am pretty much good to go.
My 2 buss has SSL comp, then ozone 9 , then the SSL fusion plugs....and this gets me good results and consistent from song to song...
I could no doubt get 10 to a point where I like it like I like what 9 is doing for me... but atm, where I am in the latest album I am doing...I will continue with 9 and re visit this later on.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by wiz on Sept 17, 2022 17:41:15 GMT -6
I discovered a bug... In Luna, when you command click a plug in it should disable it... it doesn't on Ozone 10 but does on Ozone 9....so that was why I was getting such inconsistent results....having better success today.... Johnkenn are you finding the Stabliliser overdoing it? My first reaction is everything is a little bright... wondering if you are feeling that... or I am just so used to my previous sound.... both look fine in Tonal Balance 2.... It is doing some cool stuff, and seems to be making everything more 3D... cheers Wiz
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Post by christophert on Sept 17, 2022 18:42:20 GMT -6
I'm looking forward to using this before / into my analog chain
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 18, 2022 16:37:26 GMT -6
Tough crowd over at gear space. Maybe I suck…and who knows this is just after a day of trying it. But I really loved what stabilizer did. Now - I didn’t just run the assistant and do nothing - I tweaked to get it where I wanted. Tweaked the eq, stabilizer, impact, imager, maximizer. So - yeah - it wasn’t perfect after the first analysis. Maybe some people expect it to be perfect. Anyone use the Sonible Smart Limit? Lots of opinionated kids over at The Purple Place. I mostly stick to the guitar forum over there.....
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 18, 2022 16:59:35 GMT -6
Its an interesting premise, do we really believe that an algorhthym which is in no human way experiencing the music or the song style can make better final sonic decisions to bring out the emotiveness of the song : really ?
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Post by wiz on Sept 18, 2022 17:55:19 GMT -6
Its an interesting premise, do we really believe that an algorhthym which is in no human way experiencing the music or the song style can make better final sonic decisions to bring out the emotiveness of the song : really ? Or Is it the very definition of an impartial ear?….🙂
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 18, 2022 18:06:55 GMT -6
Impartiality implies sentience: I think not !
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Post by mjheck on Sept 18, 2022 18:43:23 GMT -6
Thanks for the heads up on this one. It is quite powerful. Stabilizer is interesting conceptually - I am finding I like it on the setting that cuts instead of boosts about half the time. I had to watch a few videos and read some of the manual to feel confident in manipulating the settings, but it is generally quite nice.
Two questions for ya'll - sort of related to this plug in, but also more general:
1) on the streaming setting, I noticed the target is set to -11 LUFS - this does seem closer to what mastering engineers suggest using for a target rather than the often reported -14 LUFS - however, I haven't found anything yes staying why it defaults to that. Obviously, it is editable, but I was curious as to if anyone knows where this very specific setting came from?
2) I like that I can solo the artifacts creating by lossy encoding - however, I am not sure exactly what to do about it, save for leaving the aforementioned -1.0 of room for the encoding. I played with additional headroom, rolling off some highs and lows, narrowing the stereo filed - mostly just messing around to see if anything reduced the amount of artifact - but with no luck. Is there something I should consider and do, or is this just one of those "it is what it is" things?
Thanks again.
JMH
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Post by wiz on Sept 18, 2022 20:05:40 GMT -6
I have spent two days playing with it... and I am really starting to like it..once I tweak the eq and stabiliser and impact, its beating out Ozone 9 for sure...Ok.. wallet is gonna open...
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 19, 2022 8:03:06 GMT -6
I have spent two days playing with it... and I am really starting to like it..once I tweak the eq and stabiliser and impact, its beating out Ozone 9 for sure...Ok.. wallet is gonna open... cheers Wiz Yeah. You have to play around with the results, but it beat my previous results 100% of the time.
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Post by nudwig on Sept 19, 2022 16:19:15 GMT -6
I pulled the trigger on the Ozone 10 adv (and combined RX10 adv) upgrade today. Didn't want to but also had great results on these podcasts I've been editing, stabilizer is great on quickly evening out dialog from various sources. One question for others. The elements plugin RX10 Repair Assistant shows up realtime in Ableton but not in PT, only as AudioSuite. Anybody else having this issue? Most of the time this wouldn't really matter for me but I did fix some gnarly drum stuff and then readjust when it was too heavy handed very quickly and I wouldn't mind having that in Pro Tools too.
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Post by mike on Sept 24, 2022 10:52:53 GMT -6
I have spent two days playing with it... and I am really starting to like it..once I tweak the eq and stabiliser and impact, its beating out Ozone 9 for sure...Ok.. wallet is gonna open... cheers Wiz
Same....after demoing for awhile it kept beating Ozone 9, so I bought 10 Advanced today. Found a 10% off coupon code of NERDS10 that worked today FWIW.
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