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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Aug 2, 2022 22:26:34 GMT -6
Cubase if you like weird window management and German UI design.
Studio one if you have a thing for dragging and dropping.
Logic if you like flashy things with form over function.
Protools if you think a DAW should be a tape machine (and don't like slip editing).
Reaper if you'd like the right click menu to have every available option on the planet.
Digital Performer if you like.... got it free with a Motu interface.
Luna if you need a fully fledged DAW in a couple of years.
SAW if you want that windows 95 vibe.
Fruity loops if you're fruit loops.
Harrison Mixbus if you want a dressed up Linux daw.
So many, pick your poison.....
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Post by ShadowK on Aug 2, 2022 23:56:21 GMT -6
These threads crack me up. - first - EVERY DAW ever made suggested as an option. - second - TOTAL FAN LOVE for every DAW ever made. - third - TOTAL HATRED for every DAW ever made. I can see the remarks (mine included) before they are ever posted. Hahaha! Round and round. Then, the thread gets worn out and dies. LOL I think it's a bit different here, the majority of experience comes from long standing professional's or those who've been rocking a home studio for eon's. You'd be surprised (not you specifically) at the amount of idiosyncracies and "gotcha's" some DAW's have. IMV Pro Tools native has always been an afterthought, I bought a sub in 2018 and it still didn't automatically compensate for aux bus latency (sends). Keeping Pro Tools time aligned was an absolute nightmare and some of it according to the manual was due to some DC features being HDX only.
I read the current manual and they've stopped doing said crippling crap that made native an almost useless PITA. Although this sorta stuff isn't strictly a Pro Tools thing, up until very recently (some of which hasn't been fixed) Logic's ADC was also out of whack in some places. You could simply automate and tracks would stop playing in time, it does make you wonder with all the lack of noise about it how many just don't notice (which is probably one the reasons their stuff sounds so bad).
The only difference between Logic and Pro Tools for me is I understand 99% of its woes and can work around it. With Logic I don't really have much of a clue.. It sounds like Nuendo / Cubase would be the smart way to go but as Eric said the process of adapting to something else isn't always straight forward.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 3, 2022 0:00:36 GMT -6
Opcode Studio Vision Pro. You’ll have to find a Mac from the late 90s to run it. 😂 (Yes, I am totally kidding, but... based upon truth… It’s the one I used when I was first getting started.) If we are going retro, I see your opcode and raise you a copy of SAW😜 |
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Post by ShadowK on Aug 3, 2022 5:03:24 GMT -6
I'll give Pro Tools Studio a go and if it's not a bug ridden delay compensation crapfest like it was in the past, sweet. If that doesn't work I'll just pick up Cubase.. Appreciate the suggestions as always, BenjaminAshlin. That was good, enjoyed that  .. |
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kcatthedog
Temp
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Posts: 13,500
Member is Online
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 3, 2022 5:51:30 GMT -6
I switched from PT to logic about 5 year’s ago and subsequently tried Studione and Luna.
It’s easy enough to ignore the parts of logic that you don’t need to use or value.
Musictechhelpguy has an extensive series of logic demo videos, which help you focus on particular aspects of using logic efficiently.
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Post by Chad on Aug 3, 2022 7:31:38 GMT -6
Opcode Studio Vision Pro. You’ll have to find a Mac from the late 90s to run it. 😂 (Yes, I am totally kidding, but... based upon truth… It’s the one I used when I was first getting started.) If we are going retro, I see your opcode and raise you a copy of SAW😜 LOL! 😂 Ok, but don’t forget a JL Cooper DataSync2 |
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Post by Dan on Aug 3, 2022 9:15:37 GMT -6
I switched from PT to logic about 5 year’s ago and subsequently tried Studione and Luna. It’s easy enough to ignore the parts of logic that you don’t need to use or value. Musictechhelpguy has an extensive series of logic demo videos, which help you focus on particular aspects of using logic efficiently. Logic gem and Logic Pro help are great resources |
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Post by aremos on Aug 3, 2022 12:21:40 GMT -6
Opcode Studio Vision Pro. You’ll have to find a Mac from the late 90s to run it. 😂 (Yes, I am totally kidding, but... based upon truth… It’s the one I used when I was first getting started.) WOW! Bring back memories! My first computer based MIDI sequencer (after Roland MC500). Kept using the MIDI while using PT for audio & syncing them. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 3, 2022 13:03:48 GMT -6
Opcode Studio Vision Pro. You’ll have to find a Mac from the late 90s to run it. 😂 (Yes, I am totally kidding, but... based upon truth… It’s the one I used when I was first getting started.) If we are going retro, I see your opcode and raise you a copy of SAW😜 Mr. T says "I pity the Pro Tool fool". "I just use the SAW DAW".  Chris |
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Post by ShadowK on Aug 3, 2022 14:48:26 GMT -6
Mr. T says "I pity the Pro Tool fool". "I just use the SAW DAW". Chris Don't disagree with T, I hath don thou armor, worn the face paint of battle and now I shall Pro Fool to victory. MWahahaha.
Or I umm bought the crossgrade.. Funny, Avid says that they're not doing perpetual anymore but the upgrade licenses are literally everywhere. Even found one in my shoe..
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Post by chessparov on Aug 3, 2022 15:01:28 GMT -6
That's one way to...
Get Smart.
Chris
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Post by mythundreamt on Aug 3, 2022 15:56:21 GMT -6
How is this not the right answer? They all work, just with these exact different idiosyncrasies. Thank you. Cubase if you like weird window management and German UI design. Studio one if you have a thing for dragging and dropping. Logic if you like flashy things with form over function. Protools if you think a DAW should be a tape machine (and don't like slip editing). Reaper if you'd like the right click menu to have every available option on the planet. Digital Performer if you like.... got it free with a Motu interface. Luna if you need a fully fledged DAW in a couple of years. SAW if you want that windows 95 vibe. Fruity loops if you're fruit loops. Harrison Mixbus if you want a dressed up Linux daw. So many, pick your poison..... |
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Post by ShadowK on Aug 3, 2022 17:12:05 GMT -6
How is this not the right answer? They all work, just with these exact different idiosyncrasies. Thank you.
If you believe for a second that's the only idiosyncrasy with Pro Tools you've never used it. There's mountains of pages detailing issues with specific DAW's, in the end I just got bored of reading and bought a crossgrade license for Pro Tools.
No, thank you.
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Post by mythundreamt on Aug 3, 2022 21:58:42 GMT -6
Wait, you switched to Pro Tools or away from it? Of course, there’s mountains of pages of issues with all DAWs. I don’t mean that the exact idiosyncrasy listed per DAW is the only one, just that his post captures the exact kind of differences between them. Misused a bit of a poetic license there. I use four DAWs regularly and find myself immediately comfortable in one (oddly the one I am newest to / least familiar with) over the other three. And that is Pro Fools. How is this not the right answer? They all work, just with these exact different idiosyncrasies. Thank you.
If you believe for a second that's the only idiosyncrasy with Pro Tools you've never used it. There's mountains of pages detailing issues with specific DAW's, in the end I just got bored of reading and bought a crossgrade license for Pro Tools.
No, thank you.
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Post by ShadowK on Aug 4, 2022 1:05:17 GMT -6
Wait, you switched to Pro Tools or away from it? Of course, there’s mountains of pages of issues with all DAWs. I don’t mean that the exact idiosyncrasy listed per DAW is the only one, just that his post captures the exact kind of differences between them. Misused a bit of a poetic license there. I use four DAWs regularly and find myself immediately comfortable in one (oddly the one I am newest to / least familiar with) over the other three. And that is Pro Fools. You haven't read the thread have you? .. Understood.
I've used Pro Tools since the early 00's, when I gave up my commercial studio I tried native and it was a no go, although TDM was too expensive to keep around. I ended up moving to Samplitude and to be fair it was pretty damn good. I had quite a few issues with MOTU drivers so I used my mobile rig MBox Pro (which worked fine) but eventually bought a MAC so I could expand I/O and use the MOTU. That's how I encountered Logic which I found a bit buggy and far from intuitive.
The other day I noticed a cheap crossgrade for my perpetual Pro Tools 8/9 native license, so now I'm on Pro Tools Studio 2022.7. Thus far I like the dark theme.. Anyway, due to my recent studio retrofit DAW's don't matter all that much, a couple of VI's are required but they'll get frozen. I might need two?! Aux's with a few plugs on them (room sim and echo), apart from that everything goes to a desk with compressors, EQ's, 2-buss chains, reverb sends etc.. Even a hamster powered CPU should be able to manage that never mind my recent MBP and all that Pro Tools has to do is some basic automation, a bit of midi editing and keep the Aux's time aligned.
If it can't manage that I wouldn't even be mad, I'd be downright impressed and probably confused as to why it exists in the first place.
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Post by mythundreamt on Aug 4, 2022 13:20:08 GMT -6
Yes yes that is what I thought, you crossgraded to the latest Pro Stools version. Got confused for a second by your words about (ie against) it.
Actually your setup is similar to mine, except that I have a Carbon, which is the first time I began using anything from Avid. I use four inputs for recording from my console busses and four for my console’s AUX sends for efx, and on my lowly M1 Mac mini. It never hiccups or irritates me in any way so far, although every once in a while I do find it best to restart the Mac to keep things running smoothly.
For more heavy editing I prefer to use Cubase 12 on my powerful MBP (not that I couldn’t on the Mac mini and PT) and have Logic and Reaper on it too. I’m a Reaper user for decades and a Cubase user since before time existed. Logic and I never really got further than a polite hi/hello after it stopped being eMagic, but I am familiar with it.
I have enjoyed Pro Fools the most so far, especially after I tweaked the dark theme to perfection. But really, whatever I am ever required to record, I think I (or anyone) could do in any of these four DAWs if forced to, with equal output, just varying levels of pleasantness. Maybe I’m wrong.
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Post by mythundreamt on Aug 4, 2022 13:25:18 GMT -6
due to my recent studio retrofit DAW's don't matter all that much, a couple of VI's are required but they'll get frozen. I might need two?! Aux's with a few plugs on them (room sim and echo), apart from that everything goes to a desk with compressors, EQ's, 2-buss chains, reverb sends etc.. Even a hamster powered CPU should be able to manage that never mind my recent MBP and all that Pro Tools has to do is some basic automation, a bit of midi editing and keep the Aux's time aligned. If it can't manage that I wouldn't even be mad, I'd be downright impressed and probably confused as to why it exists in the first place. [/div]
Are you saying PT 2022.7 can’t flawlessly handle (let alone manage) that setup on your recent MBP? That’s exactly how I’m doing it with my Mac mini and it is rock solid (which honestly I was a little surprised by, given how much one hears about PT)
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Post by Dan on Aug 4, 2022 13:42:58 GMT -6
Wait, you switched to Pro Tools or away from it? Of course, there’s mountains of pages of issues with all DAWs. I don’t mean that the exact idiosyncrasy listed per DAW is the only one, just that his post captures the exact kind of differences between them. Misused a bit of a poetic license there. I use four DAWs regularly and find myself immediately comfortable in one (oddly the one I am newest to / least familiar with) over the other three. And that is Pro Fools. You haven't read the thread have you? .. Understood.
I've used Pro Tools since the early 00's, when I gave up my commercial studio I tried native and it was a no go, although TDM was too expensive to keep around. I ended up moving to Samplitude and to be fair it was pretty damn good. I had quite a few issues with MOTU drivers so I used my mobile rig MBox Pro (which worked fine) but eventually bought a MAC so I could expand I/O and use the MOTU. That's how I encountered Logic which I found a bit buggy and far from intuitive.
The other day I noticed a cheap crossgrade for my perpetual Pro Tools 8/9 native license, so now I'm on Pro Tools Studio 2022.7. Thus far I like the dark theme.. Anyway, due to my recent studio retrofit DAW's don't matter all that much, a couple of VI's are required but they'll get frozen. I might need two?! Aux's with a few plugs on them (room sim and echo), apart from that everything goes to a desk with compressors, EQ's, 2-buss chains, reverb sends etc.. Even a hamster powered CPU should be able to manage that never mind my recent MBP and all that Pro Tools has to do is some basic automation, a bit of midi editing and keep the Aux's time aligned.
If it can't manage that I wouldn't even be mad, I'd be downright impressed and probably confused as to why it exists in the first place.
Pro Tools is cool except for their reliance on Pace that slows down development, bad automatic dither practices (shared with Logic’s dither, lack of dither, and what you select is not what you get practices), and backpedaling on sample rate conversion. automatic noise shaped dithering upon export is a nice way to blow a tweeter in 2022 |
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Post by ShadowK on Aug 4, 2022 15:04:51 GMT -6
I dunno yet, when I was "trying" to create ITB mixes in Pro Tools 9 native it couldn't without a lot of manual intevention (even then it was hit and miss). I bought a Pro Tools 12 sub later on and that wasn't any better, I could simply create a send from an audio track to an aux and it wouldn't be time aligned even with delay compensation turned on. Side chain compensation (probably other parts of ADC as well) was HDX only, I'd probably just forget about HW inserts with third party interfaces (especially with Core Audio). Also let's not start on the numerous AAE / DAE codes and random crashes.. There were a lot of other issues as well but as a workflow tool I couldn't fault it.. I don't even get the complaints about midi (which didn't drift like Logic did) although my drum and orchestral scores tended to be quite basic. I'm not saying there weren't ways around most of it, I came across some "Brauer" techniques and there were Mike Caffery's interesting post on dummy outs for aux's. Although on the stated thread linked below Michael Brauer said it doesn't work, I used to just manually sample align busses etc. which got unwieldy towards the end of a project. In summary it was a very 90's way of working and Samplitude was just a relief, I didn't have to do anything and it was perfectly time aligned across the board. IME those who say Pro Tools is meant to be used as a tape deck got it pretty spot on, although I read the manual from the latest version and they say it's now properly time aligned just like Samplitude is and the missing HDX features are now part of "vanilla" Pro Tools. If it works as expected then awesome, it is worth every penny they ask just for the speed of workflow. If not then it'll go back into the garbage pile and I might pick it up again in years to come when they decide to make it function like any other half decent DAW on the market. We'll see.
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Post by mythundreamt on Aug 4, 2022 15:17:18 GMT -6
Ok so I suppose I picked a good time to jump into PT and probably under-appreciate the benefits of using Carbon and its HDX-like benefits, especially for the tape deck workflow. Certainly, I spend a LOT more time hunting for workarounds in Cubase, and Reaper, man there is nothing that doesn’t have to be done from scratch there (by design of course).
Ok I really hope as you use PT now it works out as you wish and doesn’t end up in the garbage pile! And same for me! (Uhh… as in.. same for PT for me, not me myself; I’m already precariously balanced on the edge of the garbage pile, just a matter of time..)
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Post by ShadowK on Aug 4, 2022 15:44:15 GMT -6
Ok so I suppose I picked a good time to jump into PT and probably under-appreciate the benefits of using Carbon and its HDX-like benefits, especially for the tape deck workflow. Certainly, I spend a LOT more time hunting for workarounds in Cubase, and Reaper, man there is nothing that doesn’t have to be done from scratch there (by design of course). That small nugget was quite informative so thanks for that.
Anyway I'm quite interested in Carbon but I don't seem to "get it". Besides from low latency DSP tracking it doesn't seem to have any benefits over a TB3 interface.. Reason why you go HDX is the compensate for delay's after recording pass (for HW inserts) and destructive punch features. Here it says (from the manual)..
"Compensate for Delays After Record Pass (HDX and HD Native Systems Only)
Pro Tools provides two options for compensating for input and output latency (due to any inherent latency in the analog to digital and digital to analog converters of the audio interface) after recording."
So are you using Ultimate?
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Post by mythundreamt on Aug 4, 2022 16:27:40 GMT -6
Anyway I'm quite interested in Carbon but I don't seem to "get it". Besides from low latency DSP tracking it doesn't seem to have any benefits over a TB3 interface.. Reason why you go HDX is the compensate for delay's after recording pass (for HW inserts) and destructive punch features. Here it says (from the manual)..
"Compensate for Delays After Record Pass (HDX and HD Native Systems Only)
Pro Tools provides two options for compensating for input and output latency (due to any inherent latency in the analog to digital and digital to analog converters of the audio interface) after recording."
So are you using Ultimate?
Yes. Ultimate. I picked up the Carbon right around the time Avid was giving out a perpetual Ultimate license with it, and with it being my intro to Pro Tools, I see now that maybe I have been blissfully unaware of some the pitfalls of lesser editions… hmmm… maybe I need to tone down my “hey Pro Tools works great! “ rhetoric - especially as a Cubase guy. |
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Post by copperx on Aug 4, 2022 22:35:02 GMT -6
No. Stay with ProTools. If you can get it for a song, then stay with it and explore the new features. Delay compensation will work in your scenario.
I say that as an ardent Reaper fan.
If you're up for exploration and are tired of the Pro Tools workflow, I'd say look into Steinberg's offerings. I always thought it should have been the studio standard. Had it not been for the HD hardware and other niceties that were required in the days of slow-as-molasses computers, I believe Steinberg would have dethroned Pro Tools and many engineers would have been saved from going bald. It didn't have to be that way.
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Post by skav on Aug 5, 2022 0:34:07 GMT -6
I began with Pro Tools 12 years ago, been using Reaper exclusively for the last four-five months.
To me, it took a long time before I gave it a serious try, because I did'nt find it visually inspiring, but the functionality and the results I get using it is great.
Found out that the creator is the same guy who made WinAmp many years ago, and that's big Plus to me.
Highly recommend giving it a chance!
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 5, 2022 4:03:24 GMT -6
How is this not the right answer? They all work, just with these exact different idiosyncrasies. Thank you. Cubase if you like weird window management and German UI design. Studio one if you have a thing for dragging and dropping. Logic if you like flashy things with form over function. Protools if you think a DAW should be a tape machine (and don't like slip editing). Reaper if you'd like the right click menu to have every available option on the planet. Digital Performer if you like.... got it free with a Motu interface. Luna if you need a fully fledged DAW in a couple of years. SAW if you want that windows 95 vibe. Fruity loops if you're fruit loops. Harrison Mixbus if you want a dressed up Linux daw. So many, pick your poison..... LOL .... You know I actually think it a matter of trying them all (if possible) and discovering which developers think like you do and therefore has the most reduced cognitive load to operate the software. For me the developers at Steinberg seem to know me, it's almost like they wrote Cubase personally for me. Every time I reach for a feature or want to do something it's exactly where I would of put it or implemented it if I could programme code (which I can't - I haven't got a Scooby-Doo) I can virtually touch type (so to speak) music in Cubase - it's literally that fast for me, I find it incredibly intuitive. Contrast that with my long demo of Reaper - I find Sudoku easy to solve than the menus and imbedded features of Reaper. Reaper to me is like a DAW that been dropped behind enemy lines and gone under cover! - talk about cognitive overload - I find it baffling. Logic is OK (ish) I used it for about 15 years before discovering Cubase - I was pretty quick in it - but I nick named it iL-Logical. Studio one is a good piece of software, quite Cubase like but I'm happy with Cubase so I'm good going forward. Pro Tools is not that great for a MIDI - VI - real instrument combined composer and my main schtick is a composer/ singer-songwriter. |
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