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Post by theglow on Jul 25, 2022 18:08:47 GMT -6
When it came time to record vocals for the new Elf Power record (‘Artificial Countrysides’ if you’re curious) I auditioned all of my go-to mics on Andrew; Flea 47, Soyuz 017 Tube, Tonelux JC37, Lauten Atlantis RE20, SM7, M88… didn’t love any of them!
They had used an SM57 on the demo that they recorded at home and it sounded great so out of frustration I tried that and it absolutely slaughtered all of those other mics!
Just goes to show that there definitely isn’t any one mic (or two or three!) that’ll work on EVERY voice and that the dynamic vs. condenser thing isn’t really the primary factor, it’s frequency and transient response.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 25, 2022 18:57:52 GMT -6
I believe you but... I'd love to hear actual takes of premium mics like yours vs 57, on a voice like Andrew's.
Guessing it could have been for that specific song/performance. Similar to the 57 on the hit "Sara Smile"/H&O. Chris
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Post by gwlee7 on Jul 26, 2022 9:17:43 GMT -6
Great, now y’all have me GAS-ing for an M88 to see if the tone and hypercardioid are an improvement on my Shures.
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Post by teejay on Jul 26, 2022 9:25:11 GMT -6
I believe you but... I'd love to hear actual takes of premium mics like yours vs 57, on a voice like Andrew's. Guessing it could have been for that specific song/performance. Similar to the 57 on the hit "Sara Smile"/H&O. Chris Hall & Oates and ELO. My first real concert.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 26, 2022 13:23:39 GMT -6
I believe you but... I'd love to hear actual takes of premium mics like yours vs 57, on a voice like Andrew's. Guessing it could have been for that specific song/performance. Similar to the 57 on the hit "Sara Smile"/H&O. Chris Was Hall's vocal on Sarah Smile tracked with a 57?
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Post by chessparov on Jul 26, 2022 14:21:20 GMT -6
Yes! It was originally the scratch/guide vocal. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 10:57:26 GMT -6
Bob Ohlsson's positive posts regarding the (unmodded) U67, also has been a big influence on me. Chris I thought I'd move the conversation here Chris instead of taking up real estate on the M49 thread.
Agreed the 67 is one of my top 4 mic's alongside the 251, C800 and a certain cheaper mic. Although in hindsight a KSM32 and an MD441 would have covered 90% of every vocalist who walked through the door, need some jazz? Add a decent toob comp into the mix (even if it's not compressing). Expensive mic's alongside a lot of things in pro audio is IMO a want more than a need, even in the studio it's not uncommon for a client to request a certain high end mic and it's one way to gain business. Then there's "GAS" and I'm doing it right now, in one breath I say the Core 59's for example are unnecessary / over the top whilst I'm looking at ATC's..
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2022 11:41:47 GMT -6
The first vocal mic I ever swooned over, was the AEA 44. Wes Dooley knows "they got me" if/when I have a great room, and can justify it financially. Chris
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Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 11:57:48 GMT -6
The first vocal mic I ever swooned over, was the AEA 44. Wes Dooley knows "they got me" if/when I have a great room, and can justify it financially. Chris You know, whenever I think about the amount of money one can spend on vintage LDCs or, in some cases, the reissues of these mics, it always reminds me that there are quite a few modern day classic ribbons (or something like the Coles 4038 or Beyer M160, which never stopped being made) out there that, in my opinion, are every bit as good as the previously mentioned LDCs and, in the digital age, better in a lot of cases. Also, they're all generally cheaper too. AEA, Stager, Royer, Coles, Beyer....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 12:38:11 GMT -6
You know, whenever I think about the amount of money one can spend on vintage LDCs or, in some cases, the reissues of these mics, it always reminds me that there are quite a few modern day classic ribbons (or something like the Coles 4038 or Beyer M160, which never stopped being made) out there that, in my opinion, are every bit as good as the previously mentioned LDCs and, in the digital age, better in a lot of cases. Also, they're all generally cheaper too. AEA, Stager, Royer, Coles, Beyer.... Ha, yeah it seems like a lot of people's instincts are to automatically stick an R121 or something on a cab when they're actually really good vocal mic's. R121 is easily a match for a U87 and costs half of what they do..
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2022 12:44:30 GMT -6
I don't have enough experience, to have an expert strong opinion on Ribbon vs 87 but...
I'm happy that you can have a stone cold classic Ribbon, for well under $2K US. Chris
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Post by bossanova on Jul 27, 2022 18:04:53 GMT -6
You know, whenever I think about the amount of money one can spend on vintage LDCs or, in some cases, the reissues of these mics, it always reminds me that there are quite a few modern day classic ribbons (or something like the Coles 4038 or Beyer M160, which never stopped being made) out there that, in my opinion, are every bit as good as the previously mentioned LDCs and, in the digital age, better in a lot of cases. Also, they're all generally cheaper too. AEA, Stager, Royer, Coles, Beyer.... Ha, yeah it seems like a lot of people's instincts are to automatically stick an R121 or something on a cab when they're actually really good vocal mic's. R121 is easily a match for a U87 and costs half of what they do.. I've been curious for a while but I've had a hard time finding good examples of where the Royer 121 has been used on vocals. The M160 sounds great on those late 70s Billy Joel albums. Very warm and smooth, and pairs wonderfully with Phil Ramone's EMT plates.
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Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 19:18:43 GMT -6
Check out the AEA Sessions on YouTube. All AEA ribbon, obviously. There was one session quite a few years ago with an artist named Jo Serrapere. I'm pretty sure the song, Stardust & Bromide, was released, as is. Matter of fact, I think that whole album was an all ribbon affair. The other AEA Sessions are good too. It definitely can give you an idea of what ribbons can do. Also, there's this discussion: gearspace.com/board/high-end/228151-all-ribbon-album.html#
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2022 20:10:18 GMT -6
FWIW the N22 was Wes' pick on me, in the $1K-ish range of his Ribbons. Samar AL-95 was also outstanding. Chris
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Post by theshea on Jul 28, 2022 12:48:27 GMT -6
i don‘t agree „ribbons > ballads“. i for example like to use a ribbon (golden age r1) on gritty rock songs where the vocal is distorted. the ribbons gives me smooth top end that don‘t hurt when overdriven as effect for vocal. dynamics or condenser when overdriven most often make problematic frequencies in the highs. i like to overdrive the preamp and/or compress further for grit (1176) and the gap r1 works for me.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 28, 2022 13:48:23 GMT -6
Sam Phillips would have agreed! Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 14:49:10 GMT -6
I've been curious for a while but I've had a hard time finding good examples of where the Royer 121 has been used on vocals. The M160 sounds great on those late 70s Billy Joel albums. Very warm and smooth, and pairs wonderfully with Phil Ramone's EMT plates. Buy one and try it, it's one of those mic's that'll always find a place somewhere.
Or I will at some point post some examples if you'd like?
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Post by EmRR on Jul 28, 2022 15:22:34 GMT -6
Buncha Jimi Hendrix vocals supposedly M160.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 28, 2022 15:44:40 GMT -6
So he was experienced on them... Chris .
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Post by EmRR on Jul 28, 2022 20:30:04 GMT -6
I mean, I've had a 635A be the best vocal mic......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 14:04:23 GMT -6
Metal? Growlers? RE20 Raspers? EV635a
Work every time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 14:06:17 GMT -6
I've been curious for a while but I've had a hard time finding good examples of where the Royer 121 has been used on vocals. The M160 sounds great on those late 70s Billy Joel albums. Very warm and smooth, and pairs wonderfully with Phil Ramone's EMT plates. Buy one and try it, it's one of those mic's that'll always find a place somewhere.
Or I will at some point post some examples if you'd like?
The Beyerdynamic ribbons are amazing mics. Great on overheads and rooms too.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 30, 2022 15:26:06 GMT -6
I think I like SM48(!)/Soyuz Launcher on some material... Chris
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Post by smashlord on Jul 30, 2022 20:59:21 GMT -6
I think it depends so much on the singer and their mic technique. 80% of the work I do is rock or rock adjacent and I'll put up the M49 or U67, but often the SM7 wins because it is just more forgiving with vocalists that belt and don't know how to work the mic. I also find by the time I put the mic through 3 compressors and EQs (trying to get some midrange grit), I'm hearing just as much of the coloration of the boxes than I am the mic. I also LOVE, LOVE, LOVE an MD441 on female vocals.
For ballads, I do find the U47 usually wins out.
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Post by bossanova on Aug 1, 2022 20:44:09 GMT -6
While we’re at it, can someone suggest a dynamic mic (not an SM7B, I have one) that has a similar polar pattern and room rejection to that of a 58 but doesn’t sound as veiled/takes advantage of modern improvements in studio mic design? It would be for recording use in minimally treated rooms.
Since I started using a 58 in an intentional way for tracking vocals (on a stand, spending time on mic placement) I’ve really come to respect how well the pickup pattern can neutralize noise and unwanted room reflections.
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