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Post by chessparov on Jul 20, 2022 21:51:04 GMT -6
I thought this might be an interesting discussion thread. How effective (or not) has been using a less detailed dynamic mic for vocals... To meet (or beat) an excellent "studio" condenser or ribbon? I have my own thoughts. But would like to hear yours. Thanks, Chris P.S. I hope Ward joins in. But (Warning) We may "talk some SM7"!
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Post by copperx on Jul 21, 2022 1:01:37 GMT -6
This is going to be interesting!
Meanwhile, my 20 cents, stating the obvious: whenever I haven't particularly liked the acoustics of a room, an SM7B has saved the day. A detailed condenser is not going to win that battle.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 21, 2022 1:50:01 GMT -6
For me, it’s not song temp/ style or genre dependant - it’s voice dependant. With some singers you don’t want to capture everything in equal measure and different dynamic and ribbon mics will de-emphasize certain areas of a vocal and if you get the right match then it will achieve something you cannot achieve with EQ alone. Other singers just have fantastic voices and when you want to capture everything in all its glory and in high resolution detail then a high end high resolution LDC is usually going to capture that for you. Then of course within the world of LDC you get small nuances for example my voice sounds best captured with a U47 as I benefit greatly from the slightly reduced top end and the mid push as I have a bright tenor voice. You gotta find the glove to match the hand
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Post by crillemannen on Jul 21, 2022 3:36:01 GMT -6
You'll probably hear that from allot of people around here that it's all about the arrangement. Sometimes a less hi-fi vocal sound can pop more then a super realistic vocal sound. You can only put in so much real estate into the soundfield so compromise has to be made.
For acoustic music a ribbon can add a very realistic sound character to the production. Sure less highs but a more woody lowmid feel is quite nice sometimes too!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2022 3:54:15 GMT -6
I thought this might be an interesting discussion thread. How effective (or not) has been using a less detailed dynamic mic for vocals... To meet (or beat) an excellent "studio" condenser or ribbon? I have my own thoughts. But would like to hear yours. Thanks, Chris P.S. I hope Ward joins in. But (Warning) We may "talk some SM7"! Yeesh I hope not.. Anyway IME it has nothing to do with types of microphones, I've used dynamic's / condensers and ribbons alike that aren't all that detailed and strip my rather clean voice of its remaining grit or nuance. On certain singers that's a benefit on others the opposite.
I'd also like to say genre plays a part, from a technical standpoint narrow centric microphones tend to do better in a "wall of sound" type arrangement which is generally what said genre lends itself to. However even then certain condensers will do the job.. When I recorded rock / metal bands a U67, U89 or 7B would cover the majority.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 21, 2022 6:27:19 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO.
Who likes their own singing voice?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2022 7:05:03 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO. Who likes their own singing voice? I doubt many do, you just learn to live with it and improve.
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Post by crillemannen on Jul 21, 2022 8:16:33 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO. Who likes their own singing voice? Constant performance anxiety haha! The struggle is real. I mean I don't dislike my voice but I'm no David Phelps either!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 21, 2022 8:18:57 GMT -6
For me, it’s not song temp/ style or genre dependant - it’s voice dependant. With some singers you don’t want to capture everything in equal measure and different dynamic and ribbon mics will de-emphasize certain areas of a vocal and if you get the right match then it will achieve something you cannot achieve with EQ alone. Other singers just have fantastic voices and when you want to capture everything in all its glory and in high resolution detail then a high end high resolution LDC is usually going to capture that for you. Then of course within the world of LDC you get small nuances for example my voice sounds best captured with a U47 as I benefit greatly from the slightly reduced top end and the mid push as I have a bright tenor voice. You gotta find the glove to match the hand This ! Even song to song or day to day the mic choice can change. It’s all about what works at that moment.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 21, 2022 8:20:33 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO. Who likes their own singing voice? There are 3 versions of every voice 1. How the singer thinks they should sound 2. What the singer hears 3 what everyone else hears.
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Post by svart on Jul 21, 2022 9:05:03 GMT -6
I have yet to hear a dynamic beat a U87.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 21, 2022 14:15:27 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO. Who likes their own singing voice? Constant performance anxiety haha! The struggle is real. I mean I don't dislike my voice but I'm no David Phelps either! It's an arbitrary thing it appears. I fall in the category of someone who really likes the sound of their singing voice. I mean I've studied voice and been singing about 30 years and I'm as proud of what I can do with my voice as I am my drumming and piano playing - it's just another instrument and I strive to improve every day. Not that I'm saying I'm Steve Perry here ! But I wonder if it's a 50/50 split - the do's and don'ts ? It would make an interesting survey amongst singers.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 21, 2022 14:16:12 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO. Who likes their own singing voice? Aw come on guys Why is a singer's favorite warm up... "Me Me Me"? And why would there be SO many Lead Singer jokes. Maybe more than drummers! (Then again maybe not Now now Crille, you have a terrific voice! And thanks for your videos too. Chris P.S. I like my voice, but sometimes it doesn't like me. But I love "just singing" a whole lot more.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 21, 2022 14:19:29 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO. Who likes their own singing voice? Aw come on guys Why is a singer's favorite warm up... "Me Me Me"? And why would there be SO many Lead Singer jokes. Maybe more than drummers! (Then again maybe not ) Chris P.S. I like my voice, but sometimes it doesn't like me. But I love "just singing" a whole lot more. I know hundreds of drummer jokes .... you know I've never heard a lead singer joke! Tell me your three best ones :-)
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Post by svart on Jul 21, 2022 14:24:59 GMT -6
Aw come on guys Why is a singer's favorite warm up... "Me Me Me"? And why would there be SO many Lead Singer jokes. Maybe more than drummers! (Then again maybe not ) Chris P.S. I like my voice, but sometimes it doesn't like me. But I love "just singing" a whole lot more. I know hundreds of drummer jokes .... you know I've never heard a lead singer joke! Tell me your three best ones :-) What do you call a singer who breaks up with his girlfriend? Homeless! There were two people walking down the street. One was a singer in a band, the other person didn't have a job either. How many guitarist does it take to change a lightbulb? One, but the singer will tell him he's not doing it right. How do you know if a singer is at your door? They can't find the key and they never know when to come in.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 21, 2022 14:28:57 GMT -6
If you're only expecting to record a singer that day, at your studio. Don't worry about just leaving the key under the mat, when you're away. They'll never find it! Here's some skin in the game. I actually_like_my vocal tone on the "one take" Practice Vocal below. (I know despite my best efforts-still a hack capture compared to ya'll) 58>Soyuz Launcher. Chris P.S. Darn. Great minds really think alike Svart. But I do differ on 87 vs. dynamic. Well sometimes.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 21, 2022 14:45:16 GMT -6
I know hundreds of drummer jokes .... you know I've never heard a lead singer joke! Tell me your three best ones :-) What do you call a singer who breaks up with his girlfriend? Homeless! There were two people walking down the street. One was a singer in a band, the other person didn't have a job either. How many guitarist does it take to change a lightbulb? One, but the singer will tell him he's not doing it right. How do you know if a singer is at your door? They can't find the key and they never know when to come in. Great - those made me LOL - thanks
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 21, 2022 14:47:31 GMT -6
If you're only expecting to record a singer that day, at your studio. Don't worry about just leaving the key under the mat, when you're away. They'll never find it! Here's some skin in the game. I actually_like_my vocal tone on the "one take" Practice Vocal below. (I know despite my best efforts-still a hack capture compared to ya'll) 58>Soyuz Launcher. Chris P.S. Darn. Great minds really think alike Svart. But I do differ on 87 vs. dynamic. Well sometimes. You should like your voice of that clip - it sounded very cool - well done.
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Post by teejay on Jul 21, 2022 15:33:21 GMT -6
A question to singers on RGO. Who likes their own singing voice? Constant performance anxiety haha! The struggle is real. I mean I don't dislike my voice but I'm no David Phelps either! If it’s any consolation, we singers understand there’s only one David Phelps.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 21, 2022 16:11:02 GMT -6
His uncle Jim even attempted a singing career too. But it was...
Mission Impossible! (This joke will self destruct in 5 seconds) Chris
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 21, 2022 16:29:21 GMT -6
Constant performance anxiety haha! The struggle is real. I mean I don't dislike my voice but I'm no David Phelps either! If it’s any consolation, we singers understand there’s only one David Phelps. I've never heard of David Phelps so I just checked him out on Youtube - he does have a fantastic voice. It reminds me of Adam Lambert who sings for Queen - just a really musical tenor with great control. The American Christian music scene is really fantastic, so many talented musicians and singers. It's a big scene too, when I wanted to learn my new Behringer X32, Youtube had hundreds of great videos all from really giving engineers using their boards to do FOH in churches. My taste in singers leans to the character vocalists like Bowie, Peter Gabriel, Sting as I like their singing but mainly how they write music for their voices so effectively. David Phelps is what I call a telephone directory singer - he could sing you the telephone directory and it would still be a "wow"!!
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Post by christopher on Jul 21, 2022 22:28:45 GMT -6
I finally watched the Summer of Soul documentary last month. Man! And what blew me away, the whole lot of vocalists sounded incredible. Maybe they had the breakout of the mix on a multitrack, and gave it the remix treatment? Anyway, everyone used what looked to me to be 57’s with the pop filter. I just shook my head the whole time, feeling like an idiot. Anyone know for sure what was under that pop filter?
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Post by chessparov on Jul 21, 2022 22:35:23 GMT -6
A 57? I really enjoyed it too. Roughly/mostly Classic Soul, mixed in with Black Gospel music also. 5th Dimension got funky! Chris
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Post by crillemannen on Jul 21, 2022 22:56:16 GMT -6
If it’s any consolation, we singers understand there’s only one David Phelps. I've never heard of David Phelps so I just checked him out on Youtube - he does have a fantastic voice. It reminds me of Adam Lambert who sings for Queen - just a really musical tenor with great control. The American Christian music scene is really fantastic, so many talented musicians and singers. It's a big scene too, when I wanted to learn my new Behringer X32, Youtube had hundreds of great videos all from really giving engineers using their boards to do FOH in churches. My taste in singers leans to the character vocalists like Bowie, Peter Gabriel, Sting as I like their singing but mainly how they write music for their voices so effectively. David Phelps is what I call a telephone directory singer - he could sing you the telephone directory and it would still be a "wow"!! Since I'm not really religious Phelps is my guilty pleasure haha! Listen to that cheesy Christian music! But Phelps from 97-2010 is unmatched. I mean I never heard any contemporary singer that had such good pitch and breath control. It really is jaw dropping. That Oh holy night recording where the pianist goes bananas is beyond amazing when he hits that first C# Well well I do love singing and I do think I improve so I'll keep on pushing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2022 5:43:06 GMT -6
I have yet to hear a dynamic beat a U87. Or any decent condenser for that matter..
Doesn't do too well with cookie monster vocals though..
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