|
Post by OtisGreying on Jul 14, 2022 4:59:12 GMT -6
Having some annoying trouble getting my vocal reverbs to gel lately. They seem to really be getting too in the way of my vocal and I've tried all sorts of methods to get usable results but tend to end up extremely EQing the reverb and laboring over it a lot to get a result I feel is usable and fits in the mix.
I'm wondering if you guys who have tried/own one feel from a sonic standpoint the Bricasti is in fact better than what plug-ins have to offer or not? Especially for something like vocal reverb mixing application and reverb sitting well in the mix? Or is it just a different sound?
|
|
|
Post by christophert on Jul 14, 2022 5:26:54 GMT -6
For me - yes, the Bricasti has a huge wide soundstage. I have compared many times to every reverb plug in I could find (and a heap of hardware), the Bricasti always wins. So much so - that I now have two of them. One for drum room / band spaces, the other for vocals. There are some great reverb plug ins out there - my recent fave is the Transatlantic Plate, which is awesome Having a Bricasti (or two) really makes ones mixing stand out from all of the plug in guys - such great realistic spaces. Two words - huge difference.
|
|
ji43
Junior Member
Posts: 67
|
Post by ji43 on Jul 14, 2022 6:49:52 GMT -6
Yup. Love my Bricasti and would be one of the last pieces in my studio I part with; I also have Seventh Heaven as a plugin, which is the Bricasti emulation, and while the algorithms approximate the algos on the M7, the M7 just sounds and feels better. That being said, so many great mixers use plugins, and get their vocal and reverb to gel, so I'm not sure your problem will be solved by an M7...but the M7 is one of the best sounding reverbs on the planet, and beats any plugin to my ear, so you won't regret owning one.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 14, 2022 6:55:45 GMT -6
It's not the reverb. Plenty of hits made with plugs.
If you watch a lot of pros, they usually layer many delays and reverbs together for vocals. It's not uncommon to have a short slap-type delay, a ping-pong delay, an ambient reverb and a longer plate all on the vocals at the same time. Layering like this gives you something that no single reverb can do.
We're not in the business of absolute reality. We're in the business of the illusion of realism and that tends to mean drastic measures to create "more real than real".
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 14, 2022 9:10:04 GMT -6
I should also say that it's quite a dichotomy in the audio world. You read so many suggestions about how "less is more" that cover so many facets in all stages of production yet when you watch the people actually doing the lion's share of work in the industry they just pile stuff on everything.
Going back to the vocal reverb thing, I watched a video of a guy doing a mix for a band I have used as comp material for my own mixes because I like the band and I think the production quality was great. I always wanted to know how he got the main vocals to sit in the mix so well.
The answer was nuking them with two compressors, two sets of EQ, two reverbs and a delay. Yeah, solo'd it sounded strange but in the mix it was flawless. In the mix he also dropped other stuff on the busses like distortions, more reverbs, etc. Some of them were just there to "add something" and barely did anything at all, but the totality of all the stuff adding up was where the magic happened.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2022 9:11:41 GMT -6
The answer was nuking them with two compressors, two sets of EQ, two reverbs and a delay. Yeah, solo'd it sounded strange but in the mix it was flawless. In the mix he also dropped other stuff on the busses like distortions, more reverbs, etc. Some of them were just there to "add something" and barely did anything at all, but the totality of all the stuff adding up was where the magic happened. Stop sharing my secrets..
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2022 9:23:25 GMT -6
Having some annoying trouble getting my vocal reverbs to gel lately. They seem to really be getting too in the way of my vocal and I've tried all sorts of methods to get usable results but tend to end up extremely EQing the reverb and laboring over it a lot to get a result I feel is usable and fits in the mix.
I'm wondering if you guys who have tried/own one feel from a sonic standpoint the Bricasti is in fact better than what plug-ins have to offer or not? Especially for something like vocal reverb mixing application and reverb sitting well in the mix? Or is it just a different sound?
I'm on a honeymoon, but you'd almost be at the same price as buying a Trinnov...and you'd be shocked to hear what your plugin verbs are actually doing
|
|
|
Post by Omicron9 on Jul 14, 2022 9:32:09 GMT -6
If you've used an M7, you'll know. For me/just my opinion: the only plug I've heard that comes close is the Inspirata. If you want incredibly realistic halls and spaces, you need the M7. Aside from that, there are two categories of reverb:
1. The M7. 2. Everything else.
Again, just my findings.
-0999999999.... <---signature with reverb)
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Jul 14, 2022 10:01:43 GMT -6
The M7 is amazing! Having said that, there’s no better bargain in the hardware effects world than a Lexicon PCM 70 to me. In particular if you’re looking for a lead vocal hall or plate, I’d go with that first and add an M7 later as a main room or chamber.
For plugins, I’ve had the most success with Relab LX480 & Liquid Sonics Seventh Heaven for vocals.
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Jul 14, 2022 10:05:20 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by aremos on Jul 14, 2022 10:24:46 GMT -6
Is this the one made for Slate by Liquid Sonics (Seventh Heaven)?
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Jul 14, 2022 10:29:51 GMT -6
Is this the one made for Slate by Liquid Sonics (Seventh Heaven)? Yes, Liquid Sonics. Pretty amazing plugin with a bunch of other great units in there as well.
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Jul 14, 2022 10:47:23 GMT -6
Also...call me crazy but I swear the M7 library in Reverberate 3 sounds even better than Seventh Heaven!
|
|
bob
Full Member
Posts: 32
|
Post by bob on Jul 14, 2022 11:48:22 GMT -6
It's not the reverb. Plenty of hits made with plugs. If you watch a lot of pros, they usually layer many delays and reverbs together for vocals. It's not uncommon to have a short slap-type delay, a ping-pong delay, an ambient reverb and a longer plate all on the vocals at the same time. Layering like this gives you something that no single reverb can do. We're not in the business of absolute reality. We're in the business of the illusion of realism and that tends to mean drastic measures to create "more real than real". ... which is kind of what i usually have the sends on a desk doing (and how i set up most sessions ITB too..) Plate/Spring Hall/Chamber Slap Longer Delay Micropitchshift (or some kind of modulation) Something like that... sometimes more, really depends on the music. but not a bad suggestion at all! way cheaper to try than a Bricasti too
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 14, 2022 12:03:50 GMT -6
Also...call me crazy but I swear the M7 library in Reverberate 3 sounds even better than Seventh Heaven! I have some old M7 IRs that supposedly came from the original M7 hardware. I've used them alongside the Slate Verbsuite M7 a few times and really couldn't tell much difference.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jul 14, 2022 12:13:57 GMT -6
If you've used an M7, you'll know. For me/just my opinion: the only plug I've heard that comes close is the Inspirata. If you want incredibly realistic halls and spaces, you need the M7. Aside from that, there are two categories of reverb: 1. The M7. 2. Everything else. To the OP - yes, and with @omnicron9 - agreed.
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jul 14, 2022 12:55:10 GMT -6
Love the M7. Have 3 at work.
Nothing better made today IMO for a hardware unit.
That said, there is no reason you can't get a great reverb from a plugin. I've been using R4 a lot lately. The Chambers are great in that plugin.
|
|
|
Post by viciousbliss on Jul 14, 2022 14:35:49 GMT -6
I'd recommend trying the Softube Atlantis Chambers before a big hardware purchase. For me, it sits better in the mix and provides a bigger sound than any other plugin I've tried. Really good at taking things and placing them in a wider space too. Using it on everything makes stuff blend a lot better too. Atlantis was a gamechanger. I've got stuff like UAD 224, UAD 480, UAD AMS-RMX, Capitol Chambers, Seventh Heaven Pro, the Relab stuff, pretty much everything notable. I've yet to try Inspirata though. Like has been mentioned above, I blend a lot of FX. 2-5 reverbs, two or three delays, H3000, etc.
Access Analog has an M7 and using their stuff is a lot easier than using real hardware.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Jul 14, 2022 16:07:55 GMT -6
The M7 is probably the last great dedicated effects box. Is it worth the investment? Considering I just saw an auction where a TC M5000 went for $350 I’m not sure. I still think the way to get the best out of any reverb is to EQ and use dynamics like you would any source.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Jul 14, 2022 17:08:02 GMT -6
I have discovered that the M7 is absolutely superior to any currently available plugin- and I have too many reverb plugins to compare it with. I recently bought a gently used System 1 (M7M and M10 remote) and liked it so much I immediately purchased two additional mainframes. It blew my gear budget for the rest of 2022 but sometimes you just gotta say "What The Heck". I use 7th Heaven Pro too but I hear the algos as approximations of the hardware, not a replacement for it.
Since incorporation of the hardware, I have had two non-engineering types comment that my mixes sound better than ever. Since my mixing technique hasn't changed, I'm crediting the Bricastis as the major contributor to the improvement. But, I get the hesitation to make the leap- they are sooo expensive!
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Jul 14, 2022 22:56:26 GMT -6
I use the free impulse responses of the M7 -- sounds great!
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Jul 15, 2022 1:24:16 GMT -6
When the M7 first came out I had one on demo for a weekend they where almost cheap way back!
I was very impressed with the spaces it could create and I found myself thinking if I made film music ,TV ads foley etc then it would be a fantastic tool.
For my brand and genres of pop and roll songwriting I didn’t find it so useful and for traditional band instruments and vocals I still prefer the old staples like the Lexicon 224 and 480. Also Eventide 2016 and EMT 250 constant density plate.
Now I’d wished I’d kept it as I would of made a big profit ….. I can’t believe how much the cost of gear has inflated!!
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jul 15, 2022 3:31:18 GMT -6
Inhad no idea they have gotten so expensive
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2022 6:24:04 GMT -6
It's not the reverb. Plenty of hits made with plugs. If you watch a lot of pros, they usually layer many delays and reverbs together for vocals. It's not uncommon to have a short slap-type delay, a ping-pong delay, an ambient reverb and a longer plate all on the vocals at the same time. Layering like this gives you something that no single reverb can do. We're not in the business of absolute reality. We're in the business of the illusion of realism and that tends to mean drastic measures to create "more real than real". This is all quite true. I remember visiting Al Schmitt at Capitol back in the late 90s. He actually had his verbs in chains. I won't get the order right, but he'd run dry signal through one of Capitol's chambers, then a TC-6000, then perhaps the EMT250 or 480L. In later years, the M7 got patched in there somewhere. Any single one of those 'verbs would be plenty for someone else, but Al had his own way of getting to a sound and that was part of it. Hard to argue with the results he got. I don't know that he ever bothered much with plugins, but that was simply because he had a sound he liked and it was more important to get on with it and make records. But to the original question, the M7 is a fine machine and may be the last of the quality hardware units you can get. Like any other 'verb (hardware or software) it's not going to solve every single problem. But it's got a great track record and I've known Casey and Brian for years. One thing to keep in mind is your own time. if you want it as a primary unit for multiple tracks--even if they're multiple vocal tracks--you'll have to do multiple passes in order to print the verb. So a combination of hardware and software is probably the best way to go.
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Jul 15, 2022 8:51:17 GMT -6
I use the free impulse responses of the M7 -- sounds great!
I'm curious if anyone has compared the IRs to the actual M7. ??
|
|