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Post by OtisGreying on Jun 7, 2022 5:23:58 GMT -6
How do you guys treat piano/guitar tracks that are busy/fast? Parts with a lot of notes/movement/hits within the progression. Think "Sinnerman" from Nina Simone. Or John Mayer, Gordon Lightfoot esque slappy, picky, complicated ACS gtr.
I'm starting to regret the compression I've added thus far to a busy piano part that is backing a vocal and preferring older mixes with less treatment...
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Post by EmRR on Jun 7, 2022 6:18:12 GMT -6
All depends on the relative dynamics. If it needs something, that’s the sort of thing where 8 different comps will affect it 8 very different ways, some badly. Sometimes automation wins.
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Post by svart on Jun 7, 2022 8:05:06 GMT -6
It depends on what the problem is. Sometimes if someone mics up a piano they put the mic too close to certain strings or you get modes from the placement/room you might need frequency-dependent compression or a little wide boost/cut to get those notes louder/softer.
Also, the first thing you'll notice about "sinnerman" is that it's extremely midrange centric. There's almost nothing below 300Hz or above 3K on that piano. Hell, there's almost nothing above 6K or below 100Hz in the mix. The piano is also playing a very finite range of notes too, so it's not like they'd have to do much to keep things in check compression-wise.
Also, the original 1973 mix is quite boomy with a lot of notes masking each other heavily so there's not a lot of care made to keep everything intelligible besides the vocals which are quite loud in comparison to the rest of the instruments. The piano disappears a lot in this mix as other things mask it.
So I guess it depends on what you want and what your problems are. If you're going for this type of mix, then push the faders up and don't think about it too much. If you're going for a modern "everything in it's place and intelligible" type of mix then you're going to need to do a lot of work to make sure each instrument has space. I think the start to that would be to aggressively HPF/LPF each thing until you can't cut anything more without affecting the meat of the tone, then start your mixing.
One of the biggest issues I've had, and I believe others have, with this type of songwriting is that they start with the instruments. Always start with the vocals and then move down the chain of instrument importance and fit things as you go.
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Post by bossanova on Jun 7, 2022 8:58:27 GMT -6
Elton could get pretty busy, and the 70s Elton sound is an LA-2A on each channel of the stereo piano, for what that's worth.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Jun 8, 2022 9:21:42 GMT -6
How do you guys treat piano/guitar tracks that are busy/fast? Parts with a lot of notes/movement/hits within the progression. Think "Sinnerman" from Nina Simone. Or John Mayer, Gordon Lightfoot esque slappy, picky, complicated ACS gtr.
I'm starting to regret the compression I've added thus far to a busy piano part that is backing a vocal and preferring older mixes with less treatment...
It depends so much on how it was played and how it was captured, but I've always been able to find a sweet spot with compression by using light ratios, soft knees, and tweaking attack/release times to fit the track. Sometimes a dynamic EQ to tame resonances or peaks before the full-band compressor will work wonders. |
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Post by smashlord on Jun 9, 2022 15:32:11 GMT -6
Piano I typically don't compress unless going for a very specific vibe. Maybe a touch of a 33609 on the way in, but just barely. Riding the licks always seems best. Guitar depends on the part, what type of guitar, and whether it's a support element or something that should be a feature. You mentioned acoustic, so I am going to assume thats what you mean.... strummed acoustic I like LA-3A /La-2A/RS124 or a Distressor to bring out the strumming or create some rhythmic pumping. If its picked, I like an 1176 to try to grab the transients and give it some sustain.
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