Summing Mixer - Do I need one? Which one?

Just my humble opinion but I feel that 99.9% of the benefits of summing come from type of mojo imparted from the analog gain stages. Like from transformers, tubes, etc in the summing mixer.

I’d think you’d get as far, if not farther, using your current outboard as HW inserts, even in just a few channels. (Maybe you’re already doing that, idk). That’s just my experience

I have a Folcrom in my rack and was debating selling it because I was pretty happy with what I was getting in the box. But last week I decided to run some stems out to it and mix into a pair of BAE 312's, and I definitely could hear a difference - wider, and better space around reverb tails. The summing in LUNA sounds good, but I don't get this same width until I sum externally.

Simple answer - No, and none.

Longer answer is hinted or directly addressed previously. The magic for most mixers / summing boxes is not in the "summing", it's in the makeup gain. When we were designing the first version of the Silver Bullet, Brad and I tested this pretty extensively, and we came to the conclusion that we could get the same thing with a 2 buss box - i.e. the Silver Bullet in our case.

There's a very simple test that you can do to figure out if it's the makeup gain or the summing that's what you are after. Do a mix ITB. After you're done, Buss it out 8/16/24 wide and run it into your summer, and set the makeup gain to where you want it and record it back into your DAW on a stereo track. Now, collapse your 8/16/24 wide mix to a stereo out buss and run it through 2 channel of your summing box. You may have to tweak with the levels, but hit the makeup gain at the same drive level and also record back into a stereo track in your DAW. Compare.

Both may (for me, almost certainly will) be significantly different than summing ITB with nothing on the 2 buss, but IME, they will be so close to identical that you won't be able to tell the difference. At least not if you did the test right. so.....why spend all the money on extra wire ($$$), patch bays, summers, etc.. when you can just go out your 2 buss and hit a 2 buss processing chain.

Essentially, I just described the Silver bullet to you. 3 console topologies that can be cascaded together with minimal muss and fuss. API, SSL, Neve. All in a simple box.

Do your own testing. It's the only way you'll know for sure. If you read internet stuff you'll be chasing your summing tail for years. Most people who say "summing" don't even understand what summing actually is, or what the makeup gain is bringing to the table.

All that said, there ARE summing boxes that have juicy makeup gain and transformer circuitry that helps them sound better than ITB. But as mentioned above, you can probably get the same goodness just running your 2 buss into the box and ignoring the other 6-14-22 channels...

Good luck! Don't take my word for it!!!!!!!! Experiment! But try to understand what you're experimenting with!

Similar sized setup over here and I picked up a Satellite 5059. I got it for utility in addition to the sonic benefits. I work with a good amount of multichannel drum machines & synths which means lots of stuff happening in the tracking stage while I stack and layer sounds. Composition and tracking are frequently pretty interlinked. I needed/wanted the ability to sum multiple busses simultaneously, and have easy parallel channels with inserts. Having this many parallel "blenders" is pretty great. Basically: I wanted a nice mixer that had inserts and bussing -- the (real, but difficult to describe) sonic benefits and nice price on a barely used unit sweetened the deal.

I'll be the friendly reminder for threads on summing that the cabling and patchbay price tag is not for the feint of heart. The workflow is also a big change. It's definitely a time commitment to every project when you get to mix down, unless you get something with no volume or panning that doesn't require calibration, etc. Or if you leave it calibrated and don't touch it. That doesn't work for my projects, but I'm not a commercial studio -- so I don't mind (and actually enjoy the zen of) patching everything. In some ways, the change to my setup has caused me to work a bit more efficiently because I now separate my tracking days from mix days. Having the ability to ADHD my way into 5 different projects in the same day seems cool on paper, but usually doesn't result in anything productive. Adding a small cabling, calibration, and workflow handicap ended up giving me a little focus.

If you’d have devices you’d like to use on busses or individual elements of your mix, then they can be a good tool for that.

If you just want the the device to impart color, then I’d advise sticking to a nice 2 bus chain-Silver Bullet, Pultecs, great compressor, etc.

I had to build a adder box to adjust levels after certain compressors that I used for post compression volume rides. Speck makes a nice box like this.

IMHO, you really just need to decide if you want an analog finishing chain or you're good to go ITB. People are getting sounds from both ends of the spectrum at all levels.

I prefer hardware summing and the CAPI SumBus is wonderful. The Burl B32 is awesome as well.

Choose your tools, go with it.

You don't need one...but I definitely wouldn't want to be without one either. I've mixed for years entirely ITB and then for years summing/hybrid. I've used most, if not all of the most popular summing mixers extensively. I like the Dangerous ones the best for what it's worth. The trouble with summing mixers is that you really can't a/b to see if they make a difference because you have to mix THROUGH them to know if it's the right fit for you. I work better/faster when summing so that's my 2 cents.



My current 2 buss chain is Dangerous 2 Bus > Focusrite Red 3 > AML ezP-1a pair. Love it 👍🏼 Also, I spent some time with the Silver Bullet MK1 and SSL Fusion and liked them both better with the Dangerous summing. I liked what they added but didn't feel that either replaced summing. I know others feel differently and I think a lot of it depends on the way you work and the type of material you're working on. I don't think you can truly find an answer until you try it yourself, in your studio, on your songs.

I notice on Facebook Dangerous Music seems to have a new product coming soon: might be of interest to you ?

Ok, now you're just bragging. X-D

That CAPI is a monster