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Post by bossanova on May 26, 2022 13:25:23 GMT -6
Hmmmm..... not to hijack the thread..... Looking at their website and specifically their 84 model. The specs and freq chart look promising. The only thing I've heard about these is that they're not a double for a real 84. But that's it. I've not heard anyone state anything else (likes, dislikes, applications, etc.) about them. I don't care if they're exactly like an 84 or not, but am always interested in great SDC pairs. Anyone with Warm 84 experience care to share? TIA, -09 The WA84 is very “flat” frequency-wise to the point of being almost bass-y. From what I’ve heard (having never used one), the Neumann KM84 is flat but still very detailed, whereas I’ve found that I need to sculpt the WA84 (on vocals) with EQ to bring out detail and to get it sitting clearly in the mix. I suspect it’s that situation where the frequency response does indeed match but that doesn’t tell the whole story between the sound of the two capsules. As for positives, it is indeed a very neutral sounding mic with great response to dynamics, and I’m sure I could get wider use out of it if I was in a better room and could get sources 1-2 feet away. The low end tends to overwhelm at closer distances. Added: When I first bought it, I got a great vocal recording with the WA84 at 12 inches away, but it also picked up the larger room ambiance. The voice itself sounded great though with regard to tone and balance. At 6 inches the proximity effect was noticeable.
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Post by Vincent R. on May 26, 2022 13:56:17 GMT -6
I'm still interested in hearing that 67...but I need it like I need a hole in my wallet...head. Roscoe Amble speaks really highly of the WA67. If you want an affordable 67 thing, the Advanced Audio is a really great sounding mic for just under a grand. The AA CM67SE is very good, but it is very bright as its based on a modded U67, not the more neutral stock U67.
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Post by robschnapf on May 26, 2022 14:25:01 GMT -6
Pass
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Post by drumsound on May 26, 2022 15:42:23 GMT -6
Roscoe Amble speaks really highly of the WA67. If you want an affordable 67 thing, the Advanced Audio is a really great sounding mic for just under a grand. The AA CM67SE is very good, but it is very bright as its based on a modded U67, not the more neutral stock U67. I don't think I'd call the Cm67se bright. I though it was more of an intimate and pleasing sound. I reviewed it along side the CM251, which is both leaner and more extended. But, there also seems to be a huge difference in what people consider to be bright, or more WHERE in the frequency spectrum people start talking about BRIGHT. I've often seen people call M88s bright, and I think thats just nuts. But, as conversations like this move forward i find that some think 1-4K is where bright starts, where I don't thing of that range as bright. I think more in the line of what would be called the treble band is where bright lives. Anywho, I still think the CM67se punches above it weight class.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 26, 2022 15:52:51 GMT -6
The AA CM67SE is very good, but it is very bright as its based on a modded U67, not the more neutral stock U67. I don't think I'd call the Cm67se bright. I though it was more of an intimate and pleasing sound. I reviewed it along side the CM251, which is both leaner and more extended. But, there also seems to be a huge difference in what people consider to be bright, or more WHERE in the frequency spectrum people start talking about BRIGHT. I've often seen people call M88s bright, and I think thats just nuts. But, as conversations like this move forward i find that some think 1-4K is where bright starts, where I don't thing of that range as bright. I think more in the line of what would be called the treble band is where bright lives. Anywho, I still think the CM67se punches above it weight class. Tony, part of the problem is most think “bright” is always a function of frequency response, often it has as much or more to do with how it distorts in the region above about 5-6 K. I first noticed this when some really flat tweeters were gain matched to mids and woofers but everything just felt bright. Then I talked to a guy who noticed the same thing and had the tools to measure distortion. ( can’t afford LEAP or a AP 😕).
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Post by drumsound on May 26, 2022 15:55:33 GMT -6
I don't think I'd call the Cm67se bright. I though it was more of an intimate and pleasing sound. I reviewed it along side the CM251, which is both leaner and more extended. But, there also seems to be a huge difference in what people consider to be bright, or more WHERE in the frequency spectrum people start talking about BRIGHT. I've often seen people call M88s bright, and I think thats just nuts. But, as conversations like this move forward i find that some think 1-4K is where bright starts, where I don't thing of that range as bright. I think more in the line of what would be called the treble band is where bright lives. Anywho, I still think the CM67se punches above it weight class. Tony, part of the problem is most think “bright” is always a function of frequency response, often it has as much or more to do with how it distorts in the region above about 5-6 K. I first noticed this when some really flat tweeters were gain matched to mids and woofers but everything just felt bright. Then I talked to a guy who noticed the same thing and had the tools to measure distortion. ( can’t afford LEAP or a AP 😕). I guess that makes sense.
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Post by christopher on May 26, 2022 16:27:48 GMT -6
The 87shootout thread where I downloaded files and messed around with EQ was really enlightening, and sadly I could not get the warm87 to improve in quality while other mics took EQ wonderfully. I assumed it was off axis response issues where non-linear fr is blending in? As soon as I tried to boost anywhere, a little unmusical room sound would boost along with it, just like my budget LDCs behave. And somehow the other mics with more expensive attention to details didn’t have that. I assume these mics are using a similarly mass produced capsule. So instead of musical bliss, it might be kind of frustrating. Even if it’s C12 for $300, is it really worth the frustration? Something to keep in mind
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 26, 2022 16:56:03 GMT -6
Tony, part of the problem is most think “bright” is always a function of frequency response, often it has as much or more to do with how it distorts in the region above about 5-6 K. I first noticed this when some really flat tweeters were gain matched to mids and woofers but everything just felt bright. Then I talked to a guy who noticed the same thing and had the tools to measure distortion. ( can’t afford LEAP or a AP 😕). I guess that makes sense. Yeah you really notice it when you have that disconnect between the graph and your ears or you pad the HF driver 3 dB and they still bite your head off.
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Post by Vincent R. on May 27, 2022 4:41:02 GMT -6
The AA CM67SE is very good, but it is very bright as its based on a modded U67, not the more neutral stock U67. I don't think I'd call the Cm67se bright. I though it was more of an intimate and pleasing sound. I reviewed it along side the CM251, which is both leaner and more extended. But, there also seems to be a huge difference in what people consider to be bright, or more WHERE in the frequency spectrum people start talking about BRIGHT. I've often seen people call M88s bright, and I think thats just nuts. But, as conversations like this move forward i find that some think 1-4K is where bright starts, where I don't thing of that range as bright. I think more in the line of what would be called the treble band is where bright lives. Anywho, I still think the CM67se punches above it weight class. Ok, I should rephrase. I don’t think that the CM67 is harsh at all. It’s just much more open than a stock U67. It’s going for that modded U67 sound. It actually is reflected in their posted Frequency Response Chart. It is a very intimate sounding microphone indeed. The BV8 gives it much more intimacy and helps tame the high end a bit. I had one for years. I didn’t think it sounded as full as the RMS 269, which itself was more open, but more weighty than my Neumann BV-12 modded MK U67, which is a dead ringer for the real thing. You can hear my demo of the CM67 below. I also owned the CM251, CM12 (featured above as well), and CM49. I got to demo their CM48T before it’s release too. My favorite mic of theirs is their CM49. I’d be really curious to try their new CM47LE and CM49LE. Dave wanted to send me the CM49LE to demo, but I haven’t heard from him and frankly haven’t had a ton of time to make more demos. Sorry if this post is a touch OT.
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Post by chessparov on May 27, 2022 8:49:43 GMT -6
All professional level sounding microphones. I sense that when the model designer... Is part genuine enthusiast like Dave Thomas, it always helps. Great singing as always! Chris
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Post by bossanova on May 27, 2022 14:31:34 GMT -6
Off the top of my head, I don't know if there's a lot, or any?, C12 clones at this price point that clone the circuit, the body/headbasket, and the brass capsule.
I might give this one a rental just to see what the fuss is about. Perks of living in Austin :-)
Or God forbid, I could actually finish a backing track and go to Warm Studios and just shoot out a bunch of them.
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Post by craigmorris74 on May 28, 2022 9:00:07 GMT -6
Keep in ind the brass capsule on this mic is farther away from a CK12 than AKGs teflon version. It’s basically an edge terminated 67 capsule. I does sound nice, but not a chambered CK12.
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Post by Vincent R. on May 28, 2022 10:00:18 GMT -6
Keep in ind the brass capsule on this mic is farther away from a CK12 than AKGs teflon version. It’s basically an edge terminated 67 capsule. I does sound nice , but not a chambered CK12. Yes. It’s a CEK12 style capsule originally designed by John Peluso for his 22 251 and P12 mics. It’s variations are used in the Advanced Audio CM12 and CM251 as well. It’s not bad sounding, but not a true brass CK12 in build or sound. Makes me wonder what this mic might sound like with a Heiserman or Tim Campell capsule.
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Post by chessparov on May 28, 2022 11:19:26 GMT -6
That much better. Warm capsules are excellent, but IMHO not really world class. Like Tim and Eric's. I now believe the capsule is usually the main "glass ceiling" of quality. Chris P.S. As we know, quality of circuitry/Tube also prime factors.
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Post by Vincent R. on May 28, 2022 12:14:02 GMT -6
ZenPro offers the WA-251 with the Heiserman capsule. Maybe they’re do the same for the WA-12.
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Post by chessparov on May 28, 2022 12:49:49 GMT -6
I know Chad Kelly mods the WA-251 too. Ward @ Zen is great to work with also. Chris
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Post by bossanova on May 28, 2022 19:01:09 GMT -6
Keep in ind the brass capsule on this mic is farther away from a CK12 than AKGs teflon version. It’s basically an edge terminated 67 capsule. I does sound nice, but not a chambered CK12. Ah... I was going to speculate on that in my last post because I know that's the case for some of them like the 3U capsule, but I didn't know if Warm was also sourcing those for this mic and/or if that 67 edge-terminated design was used elsewhere.
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Post by theglow on May 29, 2022 8:22:12 GMT -6
I wish someone would clone some vintage dynamic microphones! Maybe there’s a technical reason why it can’t be done that is beyond my understanding, but I’m pretty sure a D19 or D20 would move thousands of units.
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Post by thehightenor on May 29, 2022 9:31:24 GMT -6
Are these Warm mics truly great in their own right?
I mean if they cost nearly as much as a Wunder/ Flea 47/C12, Sony 800G or a Neumann 67 would people still be buying them?
I look at them and think this is cool (I could grab a 251 or C12 to add to my locker) but I can't help think I'm just getting excited about the reasonable price rather than the sound I'm hearing.
I guess there's a performance/price ratio and Warm scores highly in that department.
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Post by Omicron9 on May 29, 2022 9:51:06 GMT -6
EIN / Self-Noise: 32dBA Wow... this is by far the highest EIN number I've ever seen. Hiss machine! warmaudio.com/wa-cx12/
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Post by chessparov on May 29, 2022 11:25:44 GMT -6
Typo? 22db A weighted? Signal to Noise 73db it reads. Chris
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Post by crillemannen on May 29, 2022 15:04:03 GMT -6
Are these Warm mics truly great in their own right? I mean if they cost nearly as much as a Wunder/ Flea 47/C12, Sony 800G or a Neumann 67 would people still be buying them? I look at them and think this is cool (I could grab a 251 or C12 to add to my locker) but I can't help think I'm just getting excited about the reasonable price rather than the sound I'm hearing. I guess there's a performance/price ratio and Warm scores highly in that department. I've tested boutique mics that wasn't that great. The two mics I've tried from WA both sounded great. The main thing is that the build quality isn't that good. Both the shockmount on the WA8000 and WA251 was very bad. It wouldn't have cost that much more on the end price to have a proper quality one included and things like that definitely pulls down the overal impression. I wouldn't mind if they launched a premium line landing in the 2.5-3k range.
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Post by chessparov on May 29, 2022 16:05:49 GMT -6
IMHO the WA-8000's top end sounded a bit harsh, compared to... C800G/AA CM800T/GAP version. GAP is smoooooth. AA is budget king/nice top end. Chris
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Post by bossanova on May 29, 2022 18:37:06 GMT -6
Are these Warm mics truly great in their own right? I mean if they cost nearly as much as a Wunder/ Flea 47/C12, Sony 800G or a Neumann 67 would people still be buying them? I look at them and think this is cool (I could grab a 251 or C12 to add to my locker) but I can't help think I'm just getting excited about the reasonable price rather than the sound I'm hearing. I guess there's a performance/price ratio and Warm scores highly in that department. I've tested boutique mics that wasn't that great. The two mics I've tried from WA both sounded great. The main thing is that the build quality isn't that good. Both the shockmount on the WA8000 and WA251 was very bad. It wouldn't have cost that much more on the end price to have a proper quality one included and things like that definitely pulls down the overal impression. I wouldn't mind if they launched a premium line landing in the 2.5-3k range. That seems to be a risky price point to compete within, because that would venture into entry level/used Neumann range. From what I've observed, one of the key selling points of Warm and AA mics is the relative level of quality you get for under $1k.
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Post by mcirish on Aug 22, 2022 13:04:48 GMT -6
EIN / Self-Noise: 32dBA Wow... this is by far the highest EIN number I've ever seen. Hiss machine! warmaudio.com/wa-cx12/Digging up an old thread. That noise figure is pretty unusable on soft sources. I wonder about the capsule. Is it "really" a CK12 or is it a K67 that they made edge terminated? I can't see how it could be a clone of the original capsule and still hit this price point. Just look at Tim's or Ben's CK12 capsules. They are nearly half the price of the entire mic.
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