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Post by theboris on May 9, 2022 7:10:41 GMT -6
I've got a bunch of old ADAT tapes that I want to transfer digitally to a DAW. Some tapes were on the blackface 16bit, others xt/18, many unknown, some likely 20bit. Is anyone familiar with how a 20bit machine handles a tape recorded with an earlier model like a 16bit? how does it handle the the LSB? would 16 or 18bit tapes be better off in their original machines? since there are unknown source machines my hope is using the 20bit would allow for full capture of any lesser word length. Thanks
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Post by svart on May 9, 2022 7:44:43 GMT -6
I've got a bunch of old ADAT tapes that I want to transfer digitally to a DAW. Some tapes were on the blackface 16bit, others xt/18, many unknown, some likely 20bit. Is anyone familiar with how a 20bit machine handles a tape recorded with an earlier model like a 16bit? how does it handle the the LSB? would 16 or 18bit tapes be better off in their original machines? since there are unknown source machines my hope is using the 20bit would allow for full capture of any lesser word length. Thanks I remember that a 16 bit tape can be played in a 20 bit machine, but not the other way around. I only used them a few sessions 20+ years ago so I don't really remember if you had to set them up differently or not. I'd bet that even if you don't change the bit depth and play 16 bits through 20 bit playback, it'll simply zero the LSBs like the lightpipe does. There's no reason that you can't set the bit depth manually and try it with an unknown tape. If it's ignoring the LSBs then you won't hear a difference. If it's not, then you'll possibly see a noise floor difference I believe.
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Post by EmRR on May 9, 2022 9:03:32 GMT -6
Blackface tapes will play in 20 bit machine, you can set either 16 or 20 bit output, but digital output is polarity reversed, so fix that after transfer if needed.
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Post by Chad on May 9, 2022 9:09:06 GMT -6
Blackface tapes will play in 20 bit machine, you can set either 16 or 20 bit output, but digital output is polarity reversed, so fix that after transfer if needed. I NEVER learned this until just now. Thanks, Doug. I have some ADAT tape transfers to make sometime soon. manualsdump.com/en/manuals/alesis-adat-xt/246146/68
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Post by drumsound on May 9, 2022 9:22:51 GMT -6
Blackface tapes will play in 20 bit machine, you can set either 16 or 20 bit output, but digital output is polarity reversed, so fix that after transfer if needed. I NEVER learned this until just now. Thanks, Doug. I have some ADAT tape transfers to make sometime soon. manualsdump.com/en/manuals/alesis-adat-xt/246146/68I never knew either. It does not explain WHY the polarity inversion happens, which perplexes me.
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Post by jmoose on May 9, 2022 11:14:07 GMT -6
(...I wish this stuff wasn't burned into my brain...)
Ok first a PSA - Unfortunately ADAT tapes are subject to sticky shed syndrome. Forget the year but after I sold my last deck & BRC in 05? I had someone who wanted to resurrect a project. Borrowed a deck from a friend to make transfers & he warned me about SSS. Our tape was munched instantly. Game over.
Ok.
Polarity reverse happened at the digital level post AD converter. Then it flipped again at the DA so technically using the deck on its own? What went in is what comes out. Why? Ask the bright lights at Alesis.
The polarity reverse was fixed from XT decks onwards. Those of us who were using mixed decks & moving from studio to studio learned quickly to not split tracks among decks. Left drum overhead on track 8 & right on track 9? No bueno. Hello Satan.
Bit depth? If transferring to a DAW set things at 24 bit no matter the source. It should just write zeros for the missing bits. Always worked for me.
Glad I haven't seen those things for years. They were like, the worst parts of analog and worst parts of digital rolled together. Ugh.
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Post by theboris on May 9, 2022 11:42:49 GMT -6
Thanks, especially Doug for that reminder! Short of asking for head hours, any error codes, and putting the machine into shipping mode, anything else one should keep an eye out for in buying a couple units?
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Post by EmRR on May 9, 2022 11:47:13 GMT -6
(...I wish this stuff wasn't burned into my brain...) Ok first a PSA - Unfortunately ADAT tapes are subject to sticky shed syndrome. Forget the year but after I sold my last deck & BRC in 05? I had someone who wanted to resurrect a project. Borrowed a deck from a friend to make transfers & he warned me about SSS. Our tape was munched instantly. Game over. I'm still transferring tapes recently, I've never seen sticky shed on an ADAT. I have yet to see a tape that wouldn't play on a good transport. Munching is almost always transport alignment or very poor tape pack. Machine condition and alignment is always the bigger concern over tape age. I usually have to open the machines and clean the heads at some point in a transfer session; you can almost guarantee it if you let a tape play all the way to the end. It was always advisable to avoid the last 5 minutes of an ADAT tape as they get pretty squirrelly on error rate there, and the end is much dirtier for whatever reason. FWIW, YMMV. oh yeah, if yer 16 bit ADAT tracks came off the inserts of a Mackie 1604, they're already polarity reversed, so nothing to do when transferring from a 20 bit machine! Think of all those records that are totally reversed.....
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Post by jmoose on May 9, 2022 13:55:01 GMT -6
Remember transport maintenance all too well. Changing idler wheels & keeping track of hours for preventive measures. Had 4 machines to keep 3 running and really tried to keep things on 2 decks for 16 tracks total. Matter of fact when I got a JH24 anything that was on 3 ADAT tapes was transferred to 2" 24 on the rental reel program. Ate the costs just to not deal with those things. Sticky Shed? Its out there for sure. No mistaking the tell tale signs of squealing and brown flakes when I pulled the lid. Not sure what brands of tape were affected (think I used 'em all at some point) and also... major factor... no idea how & where those particular tapes had been stored in the years between when I did the initial recording and the effort to pull it back. Think at this point if someone really had to transfer something? I'd probably let a specialist handle it. Buying used decks is probably a crap shoot & I doubt odds are in favor of a flawless victory. Maybe start here? - www.audioarchivingservices.com/
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Post by theboris on May 20, 2022 10:54:02 GMT -6
In searching out machines, it's obviously handy to have error code references handy. is there a more thorough treatment of error codes than this? It's been 20+ years since I've held a manual, can't remember how useful their mention of codes are, but would be surprised if it was better than the link, which is great, but still leaves me wanting for more info on some items. Thanks!
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