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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 27, 2022 10:14:12 GMT -6
I have a crazy tax bill so am downsizing some gear.
I always liked my Apogee symphony mkii, so am demoing a Apogee desktop , converters are symphony mkii grade and it includes 2 Apogee pres and excellent DA and on cans.
It has apogee’s onboard dsp, which I don’t really care about but who knows, as a minimum the Clearwater verb will be handy for tracking.
I love my Aurora N and Daking pre sound, but thought I’ll do new song on Apogee desktop and see.
I’ll share my thoughts, when it shows up.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 27, 2022 11:14:47 GMT -6
I'm kind of interested in that too. If I opted out of the UAD platform, I'd miss the ATR-102 the most, I could do without all their other plugs, even though I do like their plate reverb and the Ocean Way.
I could always sell the Apollo and buy a satellite, but that wouldn't actually bring me much left over cash to buy with. So if I wanted to switch, I'd probably do well to dump UAD all together and make money selling the Apollo with the plug-ins.
So the only reason I would be interested in the Apogee desktop is if it sounds as good as the big one.
I like the sound of the Symphony Mk II a lot and look forward to seeing if the desktop sounds every bit as good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 11:26:45 GMT -6
It’s a good sounding box.
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 27, 2022 11:29:24 GMT -6
@tomegatherion has had one for awhile. I’m sure he can give a good review of the pros/cons.
Sorry to hear about your tax bill, Matt. We got smacked this year, too, though I knew it was going to happen, and had some time to prepare.
Edit: ha! Dan already answered in the time it took me to reply on my phone.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 27, 2022 12:05:29 GMT -6
Martin, it has the same converters as the mkii and 2 of the Apogee pres.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 12:15:32 GMT -6
Pros:
Apogee sound
For itb work
Awesome detail. Way more detail than RME, MOTU, UAD, and lower end Apogee products
No colored bass on the DA like MOTU
No warmed over and detail loss like the MOTU AD
No stupid web browser drivers
Drivers finally mostly finished
Windows drivers
Excellent built in volume control. Digitally controlled analog using a that ic to control the ti opamp. Apogee does it right
Awesome staging. no constraint like RME
Cons:
Apogee sound
For itb work
Doesn’t sound exactly like the Symphony I, II, or 2x6 SE. They all sound different.
Only 2 in and 2 out with one 1 di
Apogee doesn’t make an 8 channel ADAT expansion unit
High latency
Used an AKM ADC chip so either it will be out of stock for a while, a revision is coming, or it will be discontinued like the Elements and Ensemble were when Apogee couldn’t get anymore of their Thunderbolt chips
Alternatives are:
RME Babyface Pro FS (lower detail, Lower latency, better drivers, worse volume control, total mix, more portable, more pro, most pro digital audio gear company around )
UAD Apollo Twin X (better drivers, worse sound)
RME ADI-2 Pro (worse sound, better drivers, no mixer, no pres, no adat, but can be a standalone converter)
Prism Lyra (great sound, better build, no m1 drivers, more outs and ins on the 2, drivers still not
The best, more money)
Lynx Hilo (great sound, No pres, more pro, 2nd most pro company after rme, more money, better drivers over thunderbolt)
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Post by notneeson on Apr 27, 2022 12:15:59 GMT -6
Martin, it has the same converters as the mkii and 2 of the Apogee pres. Only question in my mind is how you’ll like the workflow and is it stable. I doubt it should sound great having used the Mk.ii Symphony. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 27, 2022 13:02:35 GMT -6
I mostly single or track in stereo.
I like my real Daking pres cuz I just plug in , set levels and record.
I am really pleased with my current sound quality capture, typically sa67, Daking pre, sa76 adf and Aurora conversion, tuff to beat.
I worked really hard for a not financially stressful retirement, paid off debts etc., having a really large tax bill now and little financial cushion really bothers me.
The apogee desktop is an experiment: just see it as a nice sonic package , so, I’ll test it with my next song and see.
I get along ok with Aurora N control gui now, but it took me awhile: had no problems with Symphony gui in the past, but think I found it more intuitive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 16:13:13 GMT -6
I mostly single or track in stereo. I like my real Daking pres cuz I just plug in , set levels and record. I am really pleased with my current sound quality capture, typically sa67, Daking pre, sa76 adf and Aurora conversion, tuff to beat. I worked really hard for a not financially stressful retirement, paid off debts etc., having a really large tax bill now and little financial cushion really bothers me. The apogee desktop is an experiment: just see it as a nice sonic package , so, I’ll test it with my next song and see. I get along ok with Aurora N control gui now, but it took me awhile: had no problems with Symphony gui in the past, but think I found it more intuitive. You have an overkill of stuff. Why sidegrade to something less flexible? Do you make money with your setup? Why not sell some clones, keep the good bang for buck Dakings, and pay your taxes? You don’t need an 1176 and SSL bus comp clone or an 1176 followed by an LA2A in 2022. The best new design compressors can do the peak limiting and leveling to lock a part in place in one pass through if hit and set right and save on imd, ef Daking, Kotelnikov, Molot, Kush hardware, Little Labs. The filters are insanely good |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 27, 2022 17:14:11 GMT -6
 , overkill ? 1 2 channel pre 1 76 clone 1 Aurora N Seriously, a few year’s ago I was planning on running a small studio in my retirement , had a modded delta 16/4/2, 16 channel symphony mkii, 6 ob pres, about 14 channels of compressors and 2 eq’s: so, I have downsized a fair bit already . But nixed that’s idea and now just record myself. I have found getting the last few songs done, taking longer and longer and my interest waning a little. So, the desktop is just an experiment and if it doesn’t float my boat I can return it. I appreciate the gear I have a great deal, so keeping the desktop will be a hard sell, but we will see. |
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Post by mike on Apr 27, 2022 17:31:48 GMT -6
Doesn’t sound exactly like the Symphony I, II, or 2x6 SE. They all sound different. I would be interested to hear how you'd describe the difference in sound between those 4 interfaces from your experience Dan.
I like Apogee but doubt I'll ever get the chance to hear them all so I'd find your experience interesting.
Thanks,
Mike
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 27, 2022 18:01:32 GMT -6
Well I had the symphony mkii a year ago, so I’m pretty interested too ! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 20:01:38 GMT -6
Doesn’t sound exactly like the Symphony I, II, or 2x6 SE. They all sound different. I would be interested to hear how you'd describe the difference in sound between those 4 interfaces from your experience Dan.
I like Apogee but doubt I'll ever get the chance to hear them all so I'd find your experience interesting.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike, The Symphonies are all phenomenal. Just more detail on the real ones. Better chip. The older Symphonies use the 9018 and the SE uses the 9028. The Desktop uses the mobile version of the 9028 but no fan. The upper mids are a bit sheened over but it translates big time. The treble is not as deadened as Lynx (Symphony can be more fatiguing too ugh) and it translates way more than MOTU. I know what distortion algorithm does what and it gives me a real world perspective on a lot of plugs that were lacking before. Like with MOTU, the Waves API 2500 sounded okay. Now it sounds like crap on anything less than 10ms attack. The other SSL emulations just make the mix sound smaller and crappier or with weird overshoots. A lot of distortion plugs just flat out suck on it. Like they're unreal bad and make you question people's monitoring when you hear them. The Symphony Desktop makes me use better stuff and that translates to the car and headphones. And got me to buy a 5000 dollar system to use Goodhertz and U-he plugs everywhere. It's not just plugs. It's a ton of recordings and gear recorded through too. Like owning the Symphoney Desktop has given me new found respect for classic Japanese prosumer fi and showed me how awful the overall timbre is on a lot of music. Lots of highly praised mixes are dead, ticky, or harsh with no sense of space like there was neither a room verb on the whole thing at all nor any room mics or roominess. So highly praised modern pop can sound as weird as old electronic music. Lower end Apogee is closer to purple knob Apogee with the warmth and sheened high end but it's still not as colored as the 16s and Mini Dac. Lower end Apogee is still really good and a step above multichannel MOTU, UAD, and RME (I haven't heard the new ones with the ESS chips yet) imo for tone. Really the Symphonies are phenomenal converters. They're just an incredible amount of money for the channel count. 32ins and outs is over 9000 dollars and you'll probably activate the fan on the Symphony I/O II. The real problem with Apogee is long term reliability and shoddy case work. I had to return my first Symphony Desktop because it was uneven. The knob wobbles slightly. Apogee uses cutting edge chips and stuff that are often not around for a while. See the great Elements and Ensembles being discontinued because their Thunderbolt chipsets were discontinued. A lot of the still living Apogee 16s rosettas, and minis cannot be repaired by Apogee and go for cheap used but are dead men walking. RME doesn't have these issues except for the power supplies in the rack mount gear being problematic. They just don't sound nearly as good ime. Dan |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 23:26:51 GMT -6
I mostly single or track in stereo. I like my real Daking pres cuz I just plug in , set levels and record. I am really pleased with my current sound quality capture, typically sa67, Daking pre, sa76 adf and Aurora conversion, tuff to beat. I worked really hard for a not financially stressful retirement, paid off debts etc., having a really large tax bill now and little financial cushion really bothers me. The apogee desktop is an experiment: just see it as a nice sonic package , so, I’ll test it with my next song and see. I get along ok with Aurora N control gui now, but it took me awhile: had no problems with Symphony gui in the past, but think I found it more intuitive. I used to hang around with an engineer called Will who had a Presonus interface and a couple choice bits of outboard. Stuff he did sounded great, despite me going off the deep end into the OTB realm my Shelford for tracking / MOTU 1248 was excellent. I wouldn't consider that combo a barrier to world class quality.. What I'm trying to say is don't sweat it, you'll be fine whichever way you go. Apogee for me has been a bit hit or miss in terms of stability and that's something I would factor in but if it runs fine, no issues.. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 28, 2022 2:54:52 GMT -6
All good, I had the symphony 8 and 16 mkii a couple of years ago, both worked great.
Apogee has some recent driver updates for the desktop so I think it is more full featured now. I am curious about its on board dsp and plugs but I never tracked with UA plugs, that’s why I didn’t get a twin ( and sonic quality): really just want to experience the desktop and its conversion and workflow.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 28, 2022 10:41:07 GMT -6
That's basically what I'd like to know, how does it sound compared to the big Symphony.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 10:50:56 GMT -6
All good, I had the symphony 8 and 16 mkii a couple of years ago, both worked great. Apogee has some recent driver updates for the desktop so I think it is more full featured now. I am curious about its on board dsp and plugs but I never tracked with UA plugs, that’s why I didn’t get a twin ( and sonic quality): really just want to experience the desktop and its conversion and workflow. The plugs suck except for the cool Pultecs and awesome clearmountain plugs. They’re for the onboard dsp only. Replace them later with better stuff. The Symphony Channel Strip is the easiest to use one for broad tonal shaping. The UAD plugs are mostly better. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 28, 2022 11:35:49 GMT -6
That was my preliminary sense too !
I have been also experimenting with good substitutes for my ua plugs as I find I am using them less and less: might sell my octo and ua plugs too.
one experiment at a time.
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Post by sirthought on Apr 28, 2022 20:40:40 GMT -6
What is the aurora (n) you have? USB? TB? on-board pres?
Surprised you never tracked with UAD plugs. I do either tape or something on every damn channel, even when I'm using an outboard pre. I, however, don't own a hardware EQ or comp, so a little compression on a bass or vocal or similar is helpful.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 29, 2022 4:17:15 GMT -6
I have the N with tbolt: think it’s great.
I have had all Apollos, experimented with tracking with plugs but preferred ob pres and comps, so used them instead.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 2, 2022 19:30:31 GMT -6
This looks like a pretty nice unit. Has anyone here used this with Pro Tools? Does this work smoothly in PT: DualPath Link FX Monitoring Monitor and control input features and plugin settings directly from your DAW I also see that the ADAT supports SPDIF... Digital I/O: 2 x Optical Toslink (ADAT,S/PDIF) svart, this means I could get a couple of these boxes (linked below) to expand with the Svartbox right? Digital Coaxial to Optical Converter, Bi-Directional Coax Digital Audio Converter Optical-to-Coaxial or Coax-to-Optical Digital Audio Converter Adapter www.amazon.com/dp/B07VHPJ1DD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_RAWDX1WETG68MMG0V6H4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 19:58:41 GMT -6
This looks like a pretty nice unit. Has anyone here used this with Pro Tools? Does this work smoothly in PT: DualPath Link FX Monitoring Monitor and control input features and plugin settings directly from your DAW I also see that the ADAT supports SPDIF... Digital I/O: 2 x Optical Toslink (ADAT,S/PDIF) svart, this means I could get a couple of these boxes (linked below) to expand with the Svartbox right? Digital Coaxial to Optical Converter, Bi-Directional Coax Digital Audio Converter Optical-to-Coaxial or Coax-to-Optical Digital Audio Converter Adapter www.amazon.com/dp/B07VHPJ1DD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_RAWDX1WETG68MMG0V6H4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1The Symphony Desktop works fine in everything. You could even try using it on Linux and control it from the touch screen. It’s just a class compliant usb 2.0 interface with an Xmos microcontroller. You can direct monitor in both Logic and Pro Tools but Apogee products have special integration with Logic. They’re Apple partnered and all. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 2, 2022 20:12:46 GMT -6
This looks like a pretty nice unit. Has anyone here used this with Pro Tools? Does this work smoothly in PT: DualPath Link FX Monitoring Monitor and control input features and plugin settings directly from your DAW I also see that the ADAT supports SPDIF... Digital I/O: 2 x Optical Toslink (ADAT,S/PDIF) svart, this means I could get a couple of these boxes (linked below) to expand with the Svartbox right? Digital Coaxial to Optical Converter, Bi-Directional Coax Digital Audio Converter Optical-to-Coaxial or Coax-to-Optical Digital Audio Converter Adapter www.amazon.com/dp/B07VHPJ1DD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_RAWDX1WETG68MMG0V6H4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1The Symphony Desktop works fine in everything. You could even try using it on Linux and control it from the touch screen. It’s just a class compliant usb 2.0 interface with an Xmos microcontroller. You can direct monitor in both Logic and Pro Tools but Apogee products have special integration with Logic. They’re Apple partnered and all. So I can't adjust my monitor levels direct from Pro Tools. I'll have to use the secondary mixer, like with a motu or focusrite box. Won't work like an HD system. Edit. Just checked the vid on the Apogee site and it looks like it works with PT. Am I missing something? This actually looks dope. If I can get this to work with the Svartbox, I think it checks all the boxes I need (other than not working on my outdated os. 😂😂 |
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Post by svart on May 2, 2022 20:47:53 GMT -6
This looks like a pretty nice unit. Has anyone here used this with Pro Tools? Does this work smoothly in PT: DualPath Link FX Monitoring Monitor and control input features and plugin settings directly from your DAW I also see that the ADAT supports SPDIF... Digital I/O: 2 x Optical Toslink (ADAT,S/PDIF) svart, this means I could get a couple of these boxes (linked below) to expand with the Svartbox right? Digital Coaxial to Optical Converter, Bi-Directional Coax Digital Audio Converter Optical-to-Coaxial or Coax-to-Optical Digital Audio Converter Adapter www.amazon.com/dp/B07VHPJ1DD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_RAWDX1WETG68MMG0V6H4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1Looks like they'd work ok. |
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Post by kcatthedog on May 3, 2022 9:35:02 GMT -6
First impressions of Desktop build and workflow are good.
I’ll try to load a comparison file later: same mikes and guitar , into A desktop pre or my Daking and Aurora.
Big price differential and first impression of Desktop playback by itself was favourable. I think it’s playback sounds very good, but I think the input linearity and detail quite different, ie, noticeably less of both.
So, my first impression is that the desktop is good value for its price, but, you get what you pay for.
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, overkill ?
