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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2013 9:00:24 GMT -6
Well, since I opened my mouth about this elsewhere...re:price.
A Dangerous 2 BusLT is what $1300 new? Little more for a Tonelux OTB16 with pan, which will take care of cue monitoring better. A 10 space API rack is $900. A monitor switcher with no digital IO or frills is $500-1000. I've never seen such a tiny TT pactchbay for sale, but I can't imagine that adds ALL that much to the price.
The devil's advocate argument against this idea is that you can buy all the separates already--companies have already broken the console out for you.
But, in terms of calling this any more than a $3k (empty) product is absurd in terms of what needs to be in there, IMO. Think about it--a summing unit with pan IS a mixer. Adding monitor control is relatively a non issue cost wise. Faders may be adding a bunch--which is why Innward with with the big knobs. But, at this point the biggest cost not accounted for has to be how do you power it? It's one thing to power a 10 space API rack. Or a summing mixer. But, to power them all together--likely takes a more robust (external?) power supply.
But, you can't compare the Toft or any "full featured" mixer like that. The sheer number of connections to wire to every knob (and the knobs)....and preamps....and an (8? ch)aux system...and bussing structure which likely takes more amps. That's actually, IMO, the dinosaur. Sure--nice to have, but too expensive to make well. Versus all the separate parts available now that individually do better than an IC based unit. But, if it's going to be super expensive empty....that would give me pause about ramping up production on it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 10, 2013 9:24:55 GMT -6
Good food for thought popmann. I'd never heard of the Tonelux, looked it up, and it's $100 cheaper than the 2 bus. Is one considered the better piece, or are they just different? One thing that's bugged me about the D-box or 2 bus is that it's for monitoring, but as far as I know, you can't print those sounds, so you still need an A/D converter, no?
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2013 15:47:57 GMT -6
Yes, you need AD....you will ALWAYS need an AD to record the output of an analog mixer. I would NEVER want them building one in....defeats the purpose. I think you're kind of attributing WAY too much to conversion. Particularly at double rate. If you're recording at 44.1 just stop. The analog summing and the color of it's makeup amp (likely more than the summing) makes a bigger difference than converters.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2013 21:45:37 GMT -6
Martin John Butler I went on a two year quest for a summing mixer and the BEST I've heard and bought was the Rascal Audio Tonebuss. I also did a shoot out on the old forum with it the Nicerizer and the Tonelux. I didn't think the Tonelux brought a lot to the table, the Nicerizer is a beautiful box too but there's some really well thought out stuff in the Tonebuss making it ideal for small home studios without a patch bay. Also it's got transformers both on the inputs and outputs which allowed for a ton of thick Neve like drive. I sold it when I got VCC but the TB would still be my winner (haven't tried the 5k and up boxes, they're too costly).
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Post by popmann on Oct 10, 2013 22:01:11 GMT -6
Agreed....VCC changed my feelings. I don't really agree with Slate that it renders analog summing a thing of the past-I still am not fully on board with the panning implementation in software....but, more that it's an expensive luxury more than necessity. I felt like it wasn't something that I could pass along the cost of in good conscience. I still would rather have a nice analog unit if cost was equal, but it's not--and the ability to "tune" various busses with the different console buss models ultimately tipped the scales.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 25, 2013 12:39:07 GMT -6
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Post by henge on Oct 25, 2013 13:15:45 GMT -6
This thing would be so cool if it's made!!
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 25, 2013 14:08:05 GMT -6
I think Jeff is swamped...but he can speak for himself. I would imagine this is a gargantuan task...to get right.
No pressure.
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Post by jsteiger on Oct 25, 2013 17:34:45 GMT -6
It will be made.....sooner or later. As JK says, I am swamped. I honestly have not had the spare time to even look at it in the last few months. The store has been super busy which is awesome, but leaves me very little time for R&D. When I get back to it, next up is a little rework to the main input channel PCB's. That will be a major hurdle when it's nailed down tight.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 30, 2020 0:48:35 GMT -6
hmm whatever happened to this? Looks cool.
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Post by mulmany on Feb 1, 2020 22:27:45 GMT -6
hmm whatever happened to this? Looks cool. I bet all the r&d went into the sumbuss.
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Post by tasteliketape on Feb 1, 2020 22:37:44 GMT -6
Jeff , please don’t finish this . I can’t afford it ! I already thinking of what I could sell to get it lol No seriously really
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 1, 2020 22:56:30 GMT -6
Really, the Slate VCC works for you guys? Most of my Slate products were dissapointments once I got to know them, can you say Slate FG-X?
I'm lucky to have the Louder Than Liftoff Silver Bullet here for a few weeks to try. It was lovely on the 2 bus, but It's supposed to really shine when tracking with it. I'll be doing that ASAP, but I'm recovering from surgery this week, so it'll take me a week or so to get to it.
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Post by bartacusad on Feb 3, 2020 17:48:50 GMT -6
So, Jeff - not to put any pressure on you... , but can you tell us a little more about this? Your thoughts behind doing it? The status? Will it be pre-built only? (Not that I could do it any other way)...Will the console have transexuals...er, tranny's uilt in that act like the 528's? Am I giving you anxiety? What a junky piece of crap! That'll never work : )
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Post by stratboy on Feb 4, 2020 7:56:45 GMT -6
Really, the Slate VCC works for you guys? Most of my Slate products were dissapointments once I got to know them, can you say Slate FG-X? I'm lucky to have the Louder Than Liftoff Silver Bullet here for a few weeks to try. It was lovely on the 2 bus, but It's supposed to really shine when tracking with it. I'll be doing that ASAP, but I'm recovering from surgery this week, so it'll take me a week or so to get to it. Hope your recovery is going well, Martin!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 4, 2020 10:22:05 GMT -6
Thanks Stratboy! Doing OK, lots of pain, but it will pass. One more surgery to go two months from now. In the end, I could be better than ever. It's kept me away from the Silver Bullet though, so I hope to get it going later this week.
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Post by stratboy on Feb 4, 2020 11:05:21 GMT -6
Thanks Stratboy! Doing OK, lots of pain, but it will pass. One more surgery to go two months from now. In the end, I could be better than ever. It's kept me away from the Silver Bullet though, so I hope to get it going later this week. That’s good news! I think you’re going to like that Silver Bullet.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 4, 2020 11:17:55 GMT -6
Thanks Stratboy! Doing OK, lots of pain, but it will pass. One more surgery to go two months from now. In the end, I could be better than ever. It's kept me away from the Silver Bullet though, so I hope to get it going later this week. What you trying to break my record? Keep the faith my friend.
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