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Post by seawell on Mar 11, 2022 12:11:27 GMT -6
From plug-in alliance Fb group:
“By the way: if PA wouldn’t have blocked Russia from using the online services, Russians could look at our website right now. But they wouldn’t be buying anything from us anyway, as the international payment providers and financial system have stopped operating in Russia a few days ago already!”
I thought this may be the case but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. In light of this, how can cutting off sales to Russia not be an empty virtue signal if you announced it after they couldn’t buy from you anyway?
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 11, 2022 13:45:38 GMT -6
It's easy to give to those in need without making a huge drama / virtue signaling highlight out of it. I'd suggest that that's what companies who really care are doing - not using a horrific geo-political situation for sales advantage. I spent some time in Moscow after the "wall" came down in the early 90's. The people were wonderful, helpful, and so giving. Exactly the opposite of what the US government had painted them to be all my youth. I really hate the fact that sanctions are going to hurt the common man more than the powers they seek to influence. When do the US and NATO based countries sanctions start for their roles in the mess? JK - feel free to delete if too political. There is NO discussion of these matters without getting hip deep in politics.
True too, but I think we all agree not a single war helps anyone of the civilians in the END. For me, it's a new quality that someone is using the A Bomb thing as a true threat to the whole western world. To not go down to this level too, sanctions are the better option - in my opinion.
But who cares, I live here in the EU and I tell you I don't trust PUTIN a single second. We all joked about Trump, but Putin is indeed out of control IMO.
PS BTW the western world is under "attack" it makes sense to talk about it. It's just a thousand miles away from the German borders... close, very close.
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Post by drbill on Mar 11, 2022 14:10:54 GMT -6
Nuclear war has been a direct and obvious threat since the Soviets put missiles into Cuba in '62. It's been a silent or vocal threat ever since. Back in '85, Sting said it loud and clear :
In Europe and America there's a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets
Mister Krushchev said, "We will bury you"
I don't subscribe to this point of view
It'd be such an ignorant thing to do
If the Russians love their children too.....
I know it may seem like I'm callous or unaware since I'm not as physically close to the situation, but rest assured - it only takes 20 minutes or so for an ICBM to make it across the ocean.... The real players in this geo-political nightmare are the high end power mongers. The common man? We're just fodder for the power players..... Hold tight - the end has already been written.
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Post by rowmat on Mar 11, 2022 14:22:22 GMT -6
Just wondering if anyone has the figures for how much money was raised in support of the people of Iraq after the 2003 US led invasion?
Anyone?
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Post by Quint on Mar 11, 2022 15:27:25 GMT -6
Just wondering if anyone has the figures for how much money was raised in support of the people of Iraq after the 2003 US led invasion? Anyone? I would agree with you that there seems to be a difference in application of sympathies/support/etc. when comparing Iraq to Ukraine. However, just because no such (according to you) sympathies/support/etc. were expended on the people of Iraq, that doesn't then somehow mean that sympathies/support/etc. should also not be expended on Ukraine. In essence, two wrongs don't make a right. What is difficult for me to understand is that there seems to be certain comments (not necessarily saying you, unless that is what you're saying) in this thread, and certainly out there in social media and what not, that seem to imply support for Russia or at least some sort of moral equivalency between Russia and Ukraine. Are we so divided now that we can't even ALL get behind supporting Ukraine? Russia is clearly the bad actor here. I'd like think we could all agree on that, but apparently not. |
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Post by rowmat on Mar 11, 2022 15:34:42 GMT -6
Just wondering if anyone has the figures for how much money was raised in support of the people of Iraq after the 2003 US led invasion? Anyone? I would agree with you that there seems to be a difference in application of sympathies/support/etc. when comparing Iraq to Ukraine. However, just because no such (or at least not as much) sympathies/support/etc. were expended on the people of Iraq, that doesn't then somehow mean that sympathies/support/etc. should also not be expended on Ukraine. In essence, two wrongs don't make a right. What is difficult for me to understand is that there seems to be certain comments (not necessarily saying you) in this thread, and certainly out there in social media and what not, that seem to imply support for Russia or at least some sort of moral equivalency between Russia and Ukraine. Are we so divided now that we can't even ALL get behind supporting Ukraine? Russia is clearly the bad actor here. I'd like think we could all agree on that, but apparently not. I’m not condoning Russia’s action here or downplaying the terrible situation that innocent civilians suffer during wars but to state the Russia is clearly the bad actor fails to address what led to this situation. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 11, 2022 15:39:35 GMT -6
If this thread is going to be allowed to continue, can it at least be moved to the "Off Topic" forum? Johnkenn |
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Post by Quint on Mar 11, 2022 15:43:54 GMT -6
If this thread is going to be allowed to continue, can it at least be moved to the "Off Topic" forum? JohnkennI agree. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 11, 2022 15:48:28 GMT -6
I would agree with you that there seems to be a difference in application of sympathies/support/etc. when comparing Iraq to Ukraine. However, just because no such (or at least not as much) sympathies/support/etc. were expended on the people of Iraq, that doesn't then somehow mean that sympathies/support/etc. should also not be expended on Ukraine. In essence, two wrongs don't make a right. What is difficult for me to understand is that there seems to be certain comments (not necessarily saying you) in this thread, and certainly out there in social media and what not, that seem to imply support for Russia or at least some sort of moral equivalency between Russia and Ukraine. Are we so divided now that we can't even ALL get behind supporting Ukraine? Russia is clearly the bad actor here. I'd like think we could all agree on that, but apparently not. I’m not condoning Russia’s action here or downplaying the terrible situation that innocent civilians suffer during wars but to state the Russia is clearly the bad actor fails to address what led to this situation. I thought you might say that. That stance has been making the rounds in certain circles lately. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm gonna go back to lurk mode. I'm already regretting joining in on the discussion. |
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Post by sirthought on Mar 11, 2022 16:14:36 GMT -6
It’s easy to support private companies as they sanction Russia because that action tends to align with everyone’s feeling about this situation. But I worry about this trend and what it means for the future when international companies, with no real allegiance to any sovereign nation, take it upon themselves to sanction other nations/states. It’s a slippery slope. Do we, as consumers, want to face private sanctions for the actions of our government? That could easily happen, even from our own domestic companies. What happens when Apple or Google or Tesla or Microsoft etc decide they don’t like a law that was passed in a certain US State and cut IP addresses from those people? If private companies want to help, they should stick to fund raising for the victims of this war. But Sanctions and active economic aggression by unelected, unaccountable corporate overlords is a dangerous precedent. I agree it's a slippery slope. I think the fact that we are seeing such a strong movement in this case shows exactly how serious people are taking this war invasion. They know that there's a good chance Putin would continue trying to bring former Soviet Union countries back into their fold, even though those countries chose to go their own way. We don't want to cause a nuclear world war, but there has to be a way to defend those countries right to chose their own alliances. Georgia didn't want it, but we did nothing. Ukraine doesn't want it, and we're now trying any way possible. |
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Post by sirthought on Mar 11, 2022 16:23:18 GMT -6
Just wondering if anyone has the figures for how much money was raised in support of the people of Iraq after the 2003 US led invasion? Anyone? I'm sure you could Google it. But several countries spent billions on Iraq. Not just the U.S. And it wasn't all for military use. Infrastructure. Healthcare. Education. There was a huge swelling of support to try to prop up their weak economy. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 11, 2022 16:24:03 GMT -6
Just wondering if anyone has the figures for how much money was raised in support of the people of Iraq after the 2003 US led invasion? Anyone? As of right now, the US has spent over $160 Billion rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan |
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Post by sirthought on Mar 11, 2022 16:27:06 GMT -6
It does not need to be political. One of my values goes along with the Song WAR by Springsteen. Will never forget how my Grandpa spoke with an "Enemy" after WW2. Both had the Springsteen opinion - What is it good for? NOTHING...
FYI...Edwin Starr originally did the excellent song "War." I don't find it political at all. It's just a humane response. |
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Post by superwack on Mar 11, 2022 16:40:12 GMT -6
I think folks are overlooking the obvious. Russia is a closed state. Putin has passed laws making it punishable for even saying the word "War" he has shut down opposition media, he has killed opposition leaders, he jails artists who write songs against him, etc. The people of Russia do not know what is going on unless they seek out alternative news (at some personal risk). State Media tells them the Russians are liberating Ukraine from Nazis. The idea behind shutting down UA or Plugin-Alliance, or McDonald's, or people flooding Russian restaurant review sites with news about what's REALLY happening is to try to get that kid in his apartment in St. Petersburg trying to make some sick beats to start to question why he can't download an update to his plugin... to break the spell of the Russian misinformation fed to the people. Sure, it's a tiny drop in the bucket but if it cuts the war or Putin's control of Russia by even a minute, it's worth it. Russia's commitment to its occupation of Afghanistan only started to break when the people, mostly mothers of dead soldiers, started protesting and asking questions. This time, the Russians have sent in crematorium trucks so the bodies of those soldiers who have been killed in Ukraine won't ever come home, and the people won't know. (FYI official estimates are that 5,000 russian soldiers have already died in the Ukraine, 13,000 died in the 10 years in Afghanistan)
Stop with the historical whataboutism - The Vatican came out against the russian invasion of Ukraine but, but, but they helped Nazi's escape in WW2 so I guess they shouldn't have done that because they were on the wrong side before? Nonsense.
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Post by adogg4629 on Mar 11, 2022 17:13:06 GMT -6
Strength in Solidarity All of us at Soundtoys express our deep and profound thanks to everyone who shopped to donate – together we raised $111,850! As designated by you, here's where we are sending your gifts: $48,000 to The Red Cross Society of Ukraine for protection, first aid, and essentials for injured and evacuated people. $39,250 to Médecins Sans Frontières/ Doctors Without Borders for much-needed medical services and supplies. $24,600 to World Central Kitchen to provide meals for those displaced and those fleeing the country. ...AND WE’RE NOT STOPPING THERE From today forward, 100% of each Radiator purchase will be donated to not-for-profit organizations as a way for Soundtoys customers to join us in helping others. This is an ongoing pledge. We’re directing these donations to the International Rescue Committee to help refugees whose lives are shattered by conflict and disaster in Ukraine and more than 40 other countries. THANK YOU for your support, generosity, and for taking action. Mix on, Soundtoys Kudos ST!!! If ever there was a reason to populate (my already over-populated plugin folder) with Sound Toys, this is it!!! You guys rock!!!
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Post by adogg4629 on Mar 11, 2022 17:15:23 GMT -6
UA steps up !! An Open Letter of Support for Ukraine from Sandeep Gupta, COO, Universal Audio. We at Universal Audio have been stunned and saddened by Russia's aggressive and inhumane invasion of Ukraine leaving millions of people displaced and in fear for their lives, families, and country. This includes Ukrainian members of the UA family that live and work in Kyiv. Much of the world, including many governments and private corporations, has responded to this crisis with economic sanctions — hoping to move the Russian people to pressure their leadership to stop the war. After much consideration and discussion, we at Universal Audio have decided to act in support of the proud Ukrainian people. As of today, we are pausing all UA sales and support activities in Russia and Belarus, and we have blocked all IP addresses from those countries on all our websites and services. Secondly, beyond our own corporate donations, we have designated next Wednesday, March 16 as a special UA Giving Day. On that day, all online store proceeds will be donated to humanitarian relief efforts for the Ukrainian people. Please help spread the word! We will continue to be in close contact with our Ukrainian staff as they defend their country and their families, some of whom have made it safely to Hungary. We will continue to apply pressure on Russia and do what we can to support the people of Ukraine and will stand with others who choose to do the same. We hope that actions by the world community and companies like ours will bring an end to this senseless violence and look forward to a more peaceful future. Sandeep Gupta COO Universal Audio UA rocks!!! |
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Post by adogg4629 on Mar 11, 2022 17:19:54 GMT -6
Just wondering if anyone has the figures for how much money was raised in support of the people of Iraq after the 2003 US led invasion? Anyone? It's in the multiple of Billions of dollars as of now. |
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Post by rowmat on Mar 11, 2022 17:27:30 GMT -6
Just wondering if anyone has the figures for how much money was raised in support of the people of Iraq after the 2003 US led invasion? Anyone? As of right now, the US has spent over $160 Billion rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan Well destroying something in order to rebuild it definitely worked for Halliburton and others. |
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Post by adogg4629 on Mar 11, 2022 17:29:08 GMT -6
I think folks are overlooking the obvious. Russia is a closed state. Putin has passed laws making it punishable for even saying the word "War" he has shut down opposition media, he has killed opposition leaders, he jails artists who write songs against him, etc. The people of Russia do not know what is going on unless they seek out alternative news (at some personal risk). State Media tells them the Russians are liberating Ukraine from Nazis. The idea behind shutting down UA or Plugin-Alliance, or McDonald's, or people flooding Russian restaurant review sites with news about what's REALLY happening is to try to get that kid in his apartment in St. Petersburg trying to make some sick beats to start to question why he can't download an update to his plugin... to break the spell of the Russian misinformation fed to the people. Sure, it's a tiny drop in the bucket but if it cuts the war or Putin's control of Russia by even a minute, it's worth it. Russia's commitment to its occupation of Afghanistan only started to break when the people, mostly mothers of dead soldiers, started protesting and asking questions. This time, the Russians have sent in crematorium trucks so the bodies of those soldiers who have been killed in Ukraine won't ever come home, and the people won't know. (FYI official estimates are that 5,000 russian soldiers have already died in the Ukraine, 13,000 died in the 10 years in Afghanistan) Stop with the historical whataboutism - The Vatican came out against the russian invasion of Ukraine but, but, but they helped Nazi's escape in WW2 so I guess they shouldn't have done that because they were on the wrong side before? Nonsense. To add to that, we did very little with Crimea. We did very little during the raising of Chechnya. We did nothing as Georgia was ground into pulp. What's next for Russia...Poland? Finland (goodby Genelec), Scandinavia, Mongolia? To me, the brave people fighting in Ukraine FOR Ukraine are holding back a tide that has been encroaching on Easter Europe and Northern China for well over a century. |
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Post by sirthought on Mar 11, 2022 17:53:24 GMT -6
As of right now, the US has spent over $160 Billion rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan Well destroying something in order to rebuild it definitely worked for Halliburton and others. It did. And that's why Cheney supported it. It was a huge mistake for our country to accept the lies of the Bush administration in an action that actually made the world less safe. We're further in debt. Our fighting men are in worse shape mentally. And GW Bush sits at home painting portraits of dead people, living in regret. I supported Afghanistan, but even that seems like a huge swing and miss now. |
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Post by rowmat on Mar 11, 2022 17:54:59 GMT -6
Well destroying something in order to rebuild it definitely worked for Halliburton and others. It did. And that's why Cheney supported it. It was a huge mistake for our country to accept the lies of the Bush administration in an action that actually made the world less safe. We're further in debt. Our fighting men are in worse shape mentally. And GW Bush sits at home painting portraits of dead people, living in regret. I supported Afghanistan, but even that seems like a huge swing and miss now. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 12, 2022 0:11:03 GMT -6
As of right now, the US has spent over $160 Billion rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan Well destroying something in order to rebuild it definitely worked for Halliburton and others. Yeah, Saddam Hussein was a much better option. |
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