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Post by seawell on Feb 13, 2022 21:26:21 GMT -6
Hey guys I'm working on a U87 shootout that includes: Vintage U87(all original, 1979) U87ai Serrano 87 BeesNeez BU87i C Warm Audio WA87-R2 I thought it would a good start to have a little fun with some blind files before I do the full shootout video. So, here are 5 files for you to check out, the vocal was performed at the same time through all 5 mics(all set up to sing in the middle and hit all mics in the closest way possible). The guitar is re-amped. Since that allowed the performance to be the exact same each time, I recorded 5 separate passes so the mic could be in the exact spot I usually mic the amp(Divided by 13 RPB 19/37 in half power(6V6) mode through a Divided by 13 Open Back cab. All tracks are through an Antelope MP32 preamp, absolutely no EQ(not even hi pass) or compression on any of the tracks. No pad or hi pass engaged on the mics either(since the BeesNeez doesn't have those options). The only thing added was a tad of room reverb(Waits Room M7 IR in Reverberate 3 and a Large Hall from my PCM 70). Would love to hear your thoughts on these files and then as soon as I can later this week, I'll do the reveal/full video. ------------------------------------------------------------------ *update: I’m going to hold off on going live with this on my YouTube channel for a few more days but just wanted to drop this here so the RGO family can check out the full shootout now👍🏻 All files(including dry files) available to download here: www.dropbox.com/sh/3gahzhy4kf1gjeu/AABk3UxcWCjQmd-JLBk0K2v6a?dl=0
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Post by bossanova on Feb 13, 2022 21:44:13 GMT -6
Thanks!
Okay, not at all a scientific evaluation, as it was made via (decent) bluetooth headphones with the lossy streaming from Dropbox, but I thought B was the winner with far and away the most natural sounding lower mids and finished sound, so I would guess that's one of the Neumanns.
A was more distorted in ways that I found distracting, C sounded like a less solid version of B, D felt like it was missing lower mids, and E didn't make much of an impression even after a couple listens.
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Post by seawell on Feb 13, 2022 21:50:30 GMT -6
Thanks! Okay, not at all a scientific evaluation, as it was made via (decent) bluetooth headphones with the lossy streaming from Dropbox, but I thought B was the winner with far and away the most natural sounding lower mids and finished sound, so I would guess that's one of the Neumanns. A was more distorted in ways that I found distracting, C sounded like a less solid version of B, D felt like it was missing lower mids, and E didn't make much of an impression even after a couple listens. Thanks for taking the time to listen and share your feedback! Feel free to download those dropbox files and check them out in full resolution if you have the time.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 13, 2022 21:51:25 GMT -6
I like them in this order E, B, D, A, & C. Curious what the key ends up being. Only listened to the soundcloud clips.
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Post by plinker on Feb 13, 2022 22:07:08 GMT -6
Can't you just tell me what to think, Seawell? Do I really have to listen and ruminate??
OK: E, then everything else -- However, if it wasn't "Hallelujah", i'd probably go a different route.
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Post by seawell on Feb 13, 2022 22:10:18 GMT -6
Can't you just tell me what to think, Seawell? Do I really have to listen and ruminate?? I’m actually asking you guys what I should think and hoping it’s the cheapest option 🤣
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Post by plinker on Feb 13, 2022 22:15:43 GMT -6
Can't you just tell me what to think, Seawell? Do I really have to listen and ruminate?? I’m actually asking you guys what I should think and hoping it’s the cheapest option 🤣 W/r/t the super-bowl, I'm calling an "off-sides" on that one.
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Post by seawell on Feb 13, 2022 22:22:42 GMT -6
Can't you just tell me what to think, Seawell? Do I really have to listen and ruminate??
OK: E, then everything else -- However, if it wasn't "Hallelujah", i'd probably go a different route.
There will be more files to come, different songs, more vocals...also acoustic so by the end of it I hope there will be enough material there to make a good call on it.
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Post by bossanova on Feb 13, 2022 22:25:21 GMT -6
I put the lossless files in a blind shuffle playlist just to double against any previous bias, and only checked the order after I made notes for each candidate. I still picked B. D stuck out again for not having the low mid warmth, A was more bottom heavy, and the others were both okay but not as finished sounding as B to my ears If I had to take a shot in the dark, I might guess that B is the vintage 87 because I like the top end more, and C is the 87ai. But that doesn’t account for unit specific variations so it could be flipped.
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Post by seawell on Feb 13, 2022 22:27:53 GMT -6
Added dry files to the first post now!
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2022 22:39:35 GMT -6
For me it was E in first place on first listen through.....thank you for the time and effort it takes to make and share your review and shootouts. Much appreciated!
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Post by seawell on Feb 13, 2022 23:05:31 GMT -6
For me it was E in first place on first listen through.....thank you for the time and effort it takes to make and share your review and shootouts. Much appreciated! You're very welcome! I appreciate you checking it out and I hope everyone can gain something useful from it. For everyone checking it out, I promise I'll do the reveal within a week at the most, so no worries, I won't leave you hanging in suspense.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 14, 2022 3:33:02 GMT -6
best to listen to the dry vocals, I am hearing clicks and noises in E that are not in the other tracks; is that just here ?
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 14, 2022 7:22:14 GMT -6
Ok. I'll venture some guesses. I might be way off. We'll see.
A - Serrano 87 B - U87ai C - WA87-R2 D - BU87I C E - U87i
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Post by stam on Feb 14, 2022 8:34:55 GMT -6
B and E sound the most different from A, C and D.
I am listening with regular apple headphones so take it with a pinch of salt.
Awesome shootout by the way Josh, hope to send you our new 87 soon
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Post by nick8801 on Feb 14, 2022 10:49:48 GMT -6
First of all, thank you for doing this! I had a vintage 87, and now have the Beesneez. First impressions on some earbuds on the way to work...I like C, E, and A the best in that order. I'll listen more later through the ATC's, but that's my initial impression!
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Post by seawell on Feb 14, 2022 12:40:04 GMT -6
Thanks everyone for taking the time to participate, this is really informative for me! I just added Part 2. Acoustic guitar is the same mic on each track but the Vocal mic changes on each. Same as before, one vocal sang into all mics at the same time so the performance is the same. Any different thoughts for anyone after hearing a different song/more dynamic vocal?
PART 2:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-a%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3D855c559adbfe44b295735b9ab85d2acd%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-b%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3D9858a46ca630451e9ef884f9b13e54b6%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-c%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3Dcec5f50464df46f79e59ded9fd7a8fd1%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-d%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3Db968bb7ec1b5491088f1b2cecb2e2c51%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-e%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3Df8afb1807aa9460daa45e02ccd744f53%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
DRY VOCAL FILES:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-a-dry%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3D0426f6c921e5424b977e6e248d24ac03%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing%3Cbr%3E
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-b-dry%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3D85544b7aebdf458b944266dc5e3a8413%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing%3Cbr%3E
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-c-dry%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3Df8320f770b3c42ed948e1d8c6ac4f51c%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing%3Cbr%3E
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-d-dry%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3Da4050d9ac8724662aa6e7590fa14554c%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing%3Cbr%3E
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/ghost-of-jackson-square-e-dry%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-2%26amp%3Bsi%3D89f0f01f0c11426198528f3ede1ad6f3%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing%3Cbr%3E
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Post by christopher on Feb 14, 2022 15:18:06 GMT -6
Wow thanks for doing all this! I’m pretty stumped. I liked B on the first ones, D I think was my fav on the acoustic vocal ones. Overall they are all kind of similar, all could use a little EQ and attention in the esses, some more than others. It’s a good sign, will be fun to hear the results.
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Post by seawell on Feb 14, 2022 18:08:46 GMT -6
Ok guys one last set here before I finish up the video and do the reveal. These are acoustic guitar tracks. Separate takes, each time the mic was pointed at the 12th fret about 18 inches back. Massenburg EQ plug in hi pass at 140hZ and a bit of PCM 91 reverb, no compression or anything else.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/very-good-advice-a%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-3%26amp%3Bsi%3Dd28ae17d3cdc4b56b90a59d2ea357efe%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/very-good-advice-b%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-3%26amp%3Bsi%3Dc961a1f1ed6f420b9a3884aefdf68b83%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/very-good-advice-c%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-3%26amp%3Bsi%3Df4d6be2a4d984ac58c0874e601e05db0%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/very-good-advice-d%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-3%26amp%3Bsi%3Dba0ffe0ee5704cf883fcc7ef837e7d3b%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-566396100/very-good-advice-e%3Fin%3Duser-566396100/sets/u87-shootout-part-3%26amp%3Bsi%3Da9ec7b80919d4c8ba4b626beca1a1eca%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
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Post by wiz on Feb 14, 2022 18:50:33 GMT -6
In the acoustic guitar and vocal at same time tests, I liked B
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 15, 2022 7:17:19 GMT -6
B, E, D, A, C are my favorites for the acoustic. Looking forward to getting the Key. I think my initial guesses are still my guess.
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Post by seawell on Feb 15, 2022 9:38:05 GMT -6
Thanks again everyone for all the participation, this was fun! I’m going to release this as a 2 part video on my YouTube channel so please keep this key RGO confidential for now 👍🏻 Ok, here is the key(key stayed the same for parts 1,2 & 3).
U87ai = A Warm = B U87 = C BeesNeez = D Serrano = E
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Post by bossanova on Feb 15, 2022 10:02:30 GMT -6
I'll be the first to admit, I consistently favored the Warm there without realizing it and swore it had to be one of the Neumanns. I also ranked the Beezneez last, and could only differentiate slightly between the U87s and the Serrano, which I suppose is good news for Carlos :-)
This was fun! One thing that stood out to me is how my bias was tied as much to what I thought a "finished" source should sound like as much as anything else, and that in turn led me to guess that the one that sounded most "like a record" already had to be a U87.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 15, 2022 10:04:02 GMT -6
I may have to grab that Serrano. It was at the top of my list both times. I'm surprised that I really liked the Warm too. The Ai was consistently in the middle of my list. I felt it was a touch thinner than some of the others. The original U87 seemed a touch dull to me and I chose it last on all sources. Interesting.
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Post by mike on Feb 15, 2022 10:24:37 GMT -6
Thanks again everyone for all the participation, this was fun! I’m going to release this as a 2 part video on my YouTube channel so please keep this key RGO confidential for now 👍🏻 Ok, here is the key(key stayed the same for parts 1,2 & 3). U87ai = A Warm = B U87 = C BeesNeez = D Serrano = E
Thanks for sharing this shootout and the reveal. While others may hear it differently, I thought "E" the Serrano was the closest to the vintage "C" and preferred them in my Senn600 headphones 1.(E) and 2.(C). Based on this shootout and my experience with the Serrano 87 I own, it's good to know that spending 4 figures on reverb for a vintage one just isn't necessary for me. And it only increases my optimism for the Serrano 84 I have on order. Thank you
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