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Post by forgotteng on Feb 17, 2022 15:10:34 GMT -6
Has anyone tried the HRK CP523V? Maybe it's too budget but I was pleasantly surprised by their tube EQ. Very useable. Granted what I look for in outboard EQ and outboard Compression is not always the same.
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Post by robschnapf on Feb 19, 2022 16:50:08 GMT -6
none of these are opto but I use these everyday all the time.
CAPI 526
API 525 large meter
BAC500
Pynamic500
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2022 19:05:51 GMT -6
Has anyone tried the HRK CP523V? Maybe it's too budget but I was pleasantly surprised by their tube EQ. Very useable. Granted what I look for in outboard EQ and outboard Compression is not always the same. Have not tried the HRK, but my experience with most of the budget 500 modules. The Sonics are all pretty decent it’s just they are not built for serious studio use, the switches and pots just don’t last. Then you throw in the fact that many of these companies and their OEM of choice went to the Uli Behringer school of QC (you know your life is audio when your phone auto corrects QC to QSC). In other words there is none. |
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Post by enlav on Mar 2, 2022 7:58:37 GMT -6
Just got my TraceAudio-built CAPI rack (thanks Ben!), so I suddenly have 5 additional slots compared to my old BAE. (Wait, why not just keep both racked?...) I know what will eventually go in a few of them; but I'm curious about if there's a stereo (or individual modules that can be linked) module that can do clean and transparent compression/limiting. Multiple intended purposes from being used as a front-end for highly dynamic material (hello synth, keys, piano, uncommon percussion), and also something I can use in post for level control. Not saying color isn't desirable, but I would want it more as an option. The short list I was able to gather seems to include a couple Lipinski L629's and the Elysia 500-series format xpressor. Anything else I should consider? Maybe just a second Buzz Essence?
edit: I might be getting the Lipinski confused with another model, since one posting I saw for it regarded it as a fairchild-style compressor...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 8:52:48 GMT -6
FMR RNC 500 and RNLA 500
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 9:23:20 GMT -6
The FMR stuff is fine if you want a decent well built comp on a budget. It's sort of good enough in a pro scenario not to get in the way or make signals worse. When you start talking Crane Song money there's a ton of better options even from FMR themselves (if you're not bothered about 500 series modules). I personally wouldn't sacrifice just to use 500 modules, you can buy a desk mount 19" rack for like $50.00 and add whatever you want. The good stuff is API, IGS, Acme, Chandler, Shadow Hills, Serpent etc. |
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Post by deaconblues on Mar 2, 2022 9:24:45 GMT -6
I really like my pair of elysia mpressors…they aren’t linkable, but are relatively easy to match thanks to detented pots. The available negative ratios may make it a pinch more useful than the xpressor for some things, and if you can get the anti log setting dialed in right, it can almost become a delay-like effect. There’s no wet/dry on it, but the gain reduction limiting reminds me of headroom adjustment in plugins and is capable of a lot of different compression tones. They aren’t particularly quick to learn, but can do so many different things once you get the hang of them. I also think the build quality on the elysia stuff is way above average.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 10:03:44 GMT -6
The FMR stuff is fine if you want a decent well built comp on a budget. It's sort of good enough in a pro scenario not to get in the way or make signals worse. When you start talking Crane Song money there's a ton of better options even from FMR themselves (if you're not bothered about 500 series modules). I personally wouldn't sacrifice just to use 500 modules, you can buy a desk mount 19" rack for like $50.00 and add whatever you want. The good stuff is API, IGS, Acme, Chandler, Shadow Hills, Serpent etc. Agreed on going 19” rack. Why settle for less when you can get modern rack stuff? Drawmer, Crane Song, Kush, Daking, are all amazing modern designs. There has been a ton of filter advancement since the 60s and 70s from decades of gear and honestly synth design. An 1176 or two is worse than them in every way except for sounding like an 1176. The LA 2/3/4 are cool af but have some tonal issues versus more modern stuff for general utilitarian use. The 500 series are better than stand alones for FMR though. Better chips, better DSP, higher voltages, more headroom, balanced outs. And the filters are good which is what counts. They’re just another sound. I don’t think the filters are as good as the modern gear (or the best plugins) I mentioned in the first paragraph except for super nice mode and It’s digitally controlled but so are the Crane Songs and they have a sound too. PWM compression is digital done with analog. The Crane Song switcher just operates at around 5 MHz so they smoke most plugins and old hardware. Like the best plugin stuff has been starting to do for about 7 years or so. |
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Post by enlav on Mar 2, 2022 10:41:54 GMT -6
I don't know how I keep forgetting about FMR. Depending on where my budget ends up (UFX or Aurora's start showing up first), the RNC500 might be perfect to save a penny or two. I believe I've read that the RNC is the cleaner of the two.
That being said, are there not modern designs in 500 series modules? Or is it more in tune with how the power limitations and other short-comings of a 500 series rack result in diminished sonics?
I really like my pair of elysia mpressors…they aren’t linkable, but are relatively easy to match thanks to detented pots. The available negative ratios may make it a pinch more useful than the xpressor for some things, and if you can get the anti log setting dialed in right, it can almost become a delay-like effect. There’s no wet/dry on it, but the gain reduction limiting reminds me of headroom adjustment in plugins and is capable of a lot of different compression tones. They aren’t particularly quick to learn, but can do so many different things once you get the hang of them. I also think the build quality on the elysia stuff is way above average. From what I recall, doesn't the xpressor have negative ratios as well? Or is it that the mpressor has more negative ratio's to use vs. a limited number on the xpressor? I haven't dived too deep into the differences between the xpressor and mpressor though, I'll have to do that soon... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 11:12:06 GMT -6
I don't know how I keep forgetting about FMR. Depending on where my budget ends up (UFX or Aurora's start showing up first), the RNC500 might be perfect to save a penny or two. I believe I've read that the RNC is the cleaner of the two.
That being said, are there not modern designs in 500 series modules? Or is it more in tune with how the power limitations and other short-comings of a 500 series rack result in diminished sonics?
I really like my pair of elysia mpressors…they aren’t linkable, but are relatively easy to match thanks to detented pots. The available negative ratios may make it a pinch more useful than the xpressor for some things, and if you can get the anti log setting dialed in right, it can almost become a delay-like effect. There’s no wet/dry on it, but the gain reduction limiting reminds me of headroom adjustment in plugins and is capable of a lot of different compression tones. They aren’t particularly quick to learn, but can do so many different things once you get the hang of them. I also think the build quality on the elysia stuff is way above average. From what I recall, doesn't the xpressor have negative ratios as well? Or is it that the mpressor has more negative ratio's to use vs. a limited number on the xpressor? I haven't dived too deep into the differences between the xpressor and mpressor though, I'll have to do that soon... Also, You can easily make an fmr rnc sound bad outside of like super nice mode. Good luck doing that with most 1176 or LA whatever or Dbx 160 or SSL comp auto settings. They just do their thing and yeah their thing might not be what you want or very imposing filter/color wise but it doesn’t really sound bad. The LAs have input and output and a couple switches and screw dials. That new Daking Comp II has like what? 2 attacks, 2 ratios, 2 releases. Compare that to your typical VCA comp which you can make sound like ass. Quickly. Like the Kush comp and plugs have space alien layouts and workflows |
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Post by zonkola on Mar 2, 2022 13:35:11 GMT -6
I agree with not sacrificing audio quality just to use 500 modules. That said, I think the top flight 500-series gear has come a long way in the last ten years or so. I don't feel like I'm making any sonic compromises tracking through my MA5s and BT50s, regardless of size & format.
Given that I'm working in a small, one-room studio I'd rather save the 19" rack space for the pieces that absolutely can't be squeezed into the more space-efficient 500-series format—Sta-Level, LA-2A, V72, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 13:59:12 GMT -6
I agree with not sacrificing audio quality just to use 500 modules. That said, I think the top flight 500-series gear has come a long way in the last ten years or so. I don't feel like I'm making any sonic compromises tracking through my MA5s and BT50s, regardless of size & format. Given that I'm working in a small, one-room studio I'd rather save the 19" rack space for the pieces that absolutely can't be squeezed into the more space-efficient 500-series format—Sta-Level, LA-2A, V72, etc. Yeah, as said though you're looking at the likes of Crane Song which is pretty high end stuff. When I got the IGS tubecore's I was surprised at how heavy they were, no wonder they need a lot of power and there's no compromises there. I've one last 500 to purchase before all of my slots are full, thus far I've bought 2X Tubecore's in a matched pair, an SSL Violet and a Chandler Opto. I was quite impressed with the SSL bus comp in the Big Six so I'm leaning towards that at the moment as my secondary bus or master comp. After some moving around I've got one slot left in my desk racks so I might add an API channel strip in there too. |
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Post by zonkola on Mar 2, 2022 14:15:55 GMT -6
@soriantis It sounds like we're looking at a lot of the same gear. I just received a Chandler Opto this week, I recently picked up Serpent's take on an SSL-ish stereo comp, and I'm looking at the IGS Tubecore 500 now.
Do you track with your Tubecores?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 14:31:29 GMT -6
@soriantis It sounds like we're looking at a lot of the same gear. I just received a Chandler Opto this week, I recently picked up Serpent's take on an SSL-ish stereo comp, and I'm looking at the IGS Tubecore 500 now. Do you track with your Tubecores? No, my current recording chain is a Shelford Channel into a Stam-2A. I've only just recently setup my new studio so I've not had chance to test everything out properly yet, quite interested to see what the Chandler Opto is like. But anyway it's the small things you don't expect that racks up the $$$'s.. My cabling layout was setup for the SSL Big Six and now I've returned it / bought a 16A the setup has changed and I don't have the infrastructure for it. So I've spent another $1K recently on odd bits like guitar racks, even more cables (mainly short patches), strings, velcro wraps etc. |
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Post by robschnapf on Mar 2, 2022 20:19:29 GMT -6
Am I reading this wrong?
Sacrificing audio quality with 500 series?
Mythbusters
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Post by zonkola on Mar 2, 2022 20:55:55 GMT -6
Am I reading this wrong? Sacrificing audio quality with 500 series? Mythbusters No sacrifices in audio quality with the good 500 stuff. I'm nearly all 500-series at this point other than a handful of boxes that can't be shrunk down to fit. |
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Post by ironinthepath on Mar 2, 2022 21:02:55 GMT -6
Maybe just a second Buzz Essence? This is my first post on realgearonline but I've been part of "that other forum site" for a long while. Anyway, I've got a Buzz Audio SOC 20 and REALLY like it (stereo, does M/S). A friend of mine got his first Essence last week and is already wanting a second for stereo link (but no M/S); the samples he sent me really have a similar vibe to the rack unit though. Get another one! :-) |
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Post by enlav on Mar 3, 2022 8:28:20 GMT -6
Am I reading this wrong? Sacrificing audio quality with 500 series? Mythbusters I feel like I may have accidentally added fuel to this fire a year (or two?) back when I was first getting into the prospect of buying 500-series gear. I had gone over Brad's (LTL) mega post on the topic of 500 series power supplies and really started to hyper-focus on whether I was sacrificing audio quality over the pursuit of making a pseudo portable rig.
I ended up with a BAE case, a handful of utility modules, and I haven't had any issues what-so-ever. Oh wait; the DerrEsser I have sometimes flickers every light for some reason. Spent an afternoon trying to figure out why or if the unit was causing any issue; it's really only there for VO clients or artists that are overly sibilant on a given microphone, so I'm not too worried about it for now.
I can understand some of the situations where one would argue compromise -- like the AEA 500-version of their ribbon preamp has a much lower input impedance vs. their tabletop (or half-rack?) unit. Designers/users have spoken to length over how there's improved sonics on the AudioScape D3A vs. the V3A, which utilizes (LTL) Brad's power supply, if I'm not mistaken.
Honestly though, whether it's a weak link in my monitoring chain or (current) conversion, I'm not sure I could hear the difference for the gear I've bought specifically for my 500-series rack.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2022 9:26:06 GMT -6
You are, the point was I'm not sure why you'd add the additional expense of a decent 500 rack just to buy cheap compressors already available in half or 19" form. Well, unless you're really hurting for space I guess.. For the cost difference you could load up on FMR's PBC6A's for example which are fully balanced, versatile and very good sounding comps. So this has nothing to do with quality, as Dan stated the RNC / VNLA comps are actually better (and more expensive) in 500 form. Anyway, for me personally 500 modules only really make sense when aiming at loftier stuff. There might be a few inherent differences but for the most part they tend to be a lot cheaper for obvious reasons and said cost difference swallows the additional rack purchase. Also the other point was there's some decent stuff not available in a 500 series form factor, I wouldn't overlook 19" just because I have a 500 rack. |
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Post by robschnapf on Mar 3, 2022 9:33:25 GMT -6
Gotcha
Thanks for the clarificatio
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Post by enlav on Mar 3, 2022 9:50:41 GMT -6
You are, the point was I'm not sure why you'd add the additional expense of a decent 500 rack just to buy cheap compressors already available in half or 19" form. Well, unless you're really hurting for space I guess.. For the cost difference you could load up on FMR's PBC6A's for example which are fully balanced, versatile and very good sounding comps. Ah yes, I totally get this point. I think in another thread there was an astute point that in some cases, going with a rack and a bunch of preamps could actually end up costing more per channel vs. the multi-channel units that the same manufacturer sells.
At this point, 500 series is just really convenient for certain situations. Reduced interface is kind of a bummer for some modules, but when I'm taking out the rack for a small project, I love the idea of minimizing the size and number of cords needed.
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Post by zonkola on Mar 3, 2022 13:01:54 GMT -6
So I had a chance to test drive the Chandler TG Opto yesterday. It was solid on (my) vocals, but didn't quench my desire to explore other options.
Then I ran some DI bass through it, and after a few A/B tests I stopped testing and just played bass for a few hours. The Opto does something really special to bass guitar, somehow making my playing sound more precise and polished while giving the tone some extra weight. It feels a little cheaty but I'm not above it—the Opto is now hard wired into my bass tracking audio path.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 3, 2022 21:48:53 GMT -6
The FMR stuff is fine if you want a decent well built comp on a budget. It's sort of good enough in a pro scenario not to get in the way or make signals worse. When you start talking Crane Song money there's a ton of better options even from FMR themselves (if you're not bothered about 500 series modules). I personally wouldn't sacrifice just to use 500 modules, you can buy a desk mount 19" rack for like $50.00 and add whatever you want. The good stuff is API, IGS, Acme, Chandler, Shadow Hills, Serpent etc. Agreed on going 19” rack. Why settle for less when you can get modern rack stuff? Drawmer, Crane Song, Kush, Daking, are all amazing modern designs. There has been a ton of filter advancement since the 60s and 70s from decades of gear and honestly synth design. An 1176 or two is worse than them in every way except for sounding like an 1176. The LA 2/3/4 are cool af but have some tonal issues versus more modern stuff for general utilitarian use. The 500 series are better than stand alones for FMR though. Better chips, better DSP, higher voltages, more headroom, balanced outs. And the filters are good which is what counts. They’re just another sound. I don’t think the filters are as good as the modern gear (or the best plugins) I mentioned in the first paragraph except for super nice mode and It’s digitally controlled but so are the Crane Songs and they have a sound too. PWM compression is digital done with analog. The Crane Song switcher just operates at around 5 MHz so they smoke most plugins and old hardware. Like the best plugin stuff has been starting to do for about 7 years or so. The advantages of 19in are so simple, you can build what you want, no worries of PSU or space. Find what works for you if it’s 500 cool if not it’s still cool. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 4, 2022 8:36:43 GMT -6
Am I reading this wrong? Sacrificing audio quality with 500 series? Mythbusters That's exactly what I was thinking when I was reading thru this Rob. Crazy talk IMO. 500 series are like any other gear. You got the good stuff, and the not so good stuff. On another note : the D3a vs V3a thing - you're not talking about "500" compromise. You're talking about rack enclosure / power supply compromise. Good / Bad power supply design and circuit design are easily found in both 19" and 500 formats. If you need 4 bands of flexible EQ or have big fat fingers, yeah, 19" is going to give you more finger room. If you need more gear in less space - the 500 series is hard to beat. I dunno....API seemed to become a legend with their 500 stuff. LOL BTW, for disclosure, I have 7 500 racks and 66+ spaces of 500 gear.....  Choose wisely! |
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Post by enlav on Mar 4, 2022 11:39:56 GMT -6
That's exactly what I was thinking when I was reading thru this Rob. Crazy talk IMO. 500 series are like any other gear. You got the good stuff, and the not so good stuff. On another note : the D3a vs V3a thing - you're not talking about "500" compromise. You're talking about rack enclosure / power supply compromise. [...] Just to make sure I'm not coming off as combative, or spreading misinformation... I did want to clarify a subtlety of my last post. I can understand some of the situations where one would argue compromise[...] For the record, I'm finding no issue in using 500 series modules or whatever limitations it could impose (which is why I revived the thread asking for additional suggestions); I'm simply mentioning that I understand where a point is found, regardless of my own support (or lack of) for it.
Though I am curious as to the distinction between whether someone in the thread wants to call it a 500 series compromise vs. a rack enclosure/power supply compromise. Is this more of an issue of semantics?
(I also hope I'm not ruffling feathers with the D3a/V3a comment; I meant it more as a positive towards the D3a rather than a negative on the V3a. Similar to the topic of Chroma 500 Series vs. Chroma+ - all sentiment seems to indicate the Chroma performs great, but I've recalled people mentioning the Chroma+ performs even better.)
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