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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2022 18:03:55 GMT -6
Just like with pie, it is only natural that people have different pallets and preferences: so there no one right pie and all the rest wrong or bad. We simply have a difference of opinion/taste. I think sonic quality, is like beauty, in the mind of the beholder: just as there is no one beauty, there is no one best device to create sonic quality; experiences will naturally vary. It’s really best for people to demo gear themselves and draw their own conclusions. At best, our opinions are abstractions, removed from the reality of someone else listening with their own ears and having their own first hand experience. Yep, that's a fine load of waffle  .. If the advice on every thread is just try it yourself this forum and the other one would dry up quickly. There's generally a 100 choices for everything at this point, I use owner reviews or trusted opinions to narrow them down and THEN test the final three. I've done the whole test every piece methodically one after the other thing and it takes wayyy too long (months, years even). Also y'know, we're all human, make mistakes and on occasion one might actually learn something. That's hard to do if we just end every discussion with "it's down to preference". |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2022 0:23:48 GMT -6
If I prefer apple pie and you peach is that a problem ? No, not at all and that should go without saying. Whatever you use has no bearing on me, however when one state's an opposing view to general opinion, reviews etc. it's always fundamentally prudent to ask why. I have some "out there" views on microphones, especially dynamics and yeah we had a grand old semi-heated debate about it but that's fine. I discovered a few things that I hadn't factored in, so I take a bit of cheekiness and debate as a positive not a negative. Any deeply informed musings on the subject benefits potential buyers or if one is willing it can re-direct a point of view. As it stands right now I wouldn't ever add low end Focals or Adam for that matter into a purchasing decision, if you're saying they're worth a punt over the LYD's I'm going to be curious about it and weigh in my own experiences. As said, I could have missed something completely but without some solid context I'm left just scratching my head on the subject. The Focal's are a fair bit cheaper than the Neumann's, Core 59's, ATC's or the PSI's I'm looking at so again it's prudent for me to understand why.. There was no phantom centre or "holographic" presentation with the Focal's (or Adams), all I got was a purely muddy response. I had some sealed box SMK100's and they were even worse, it wasn't until I picked up a pair of coax's that I could finally hear reverb trails, separate instruments etc. and generally in the low end monitor section I'd much prefer to use can's. In terms of general response I know the Dyn's aren't the best I've ever come across, however they're not expensive for what they are either. I've used them in three rooms thus far, showroom, old small room and my new larger residence. They're struggling more in my bigger room than they were my small one, I'd say the Dyn's are very much near-fields.. This is becoming a very long post, feel free to pick apart anything I've said because ultimately it's to the benefit of everyone interested in either of these monitors. Focal is cheap because Focal is huge. They make everything except the amps. That’s why. The cheaper ones, I.e. alpha, CMS, shape basically just sound underwater. They have way more sales than more boutique brands like ATC and PSI so they’re able to charge less. The solos are being blown out now so hopefully they have an improvement coming |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2022 0:26:41 GMT -6
Aren’t the 15 and 48 like 2 decades apart in terms of design and release ? Yeah but in that time I don’t think Dynaudio improved its drivers sonics, I’m sure they figured out how to build them quicker and cheaper. The best example of this my good friend who is sorely missed worked for a local company that builds high dollar consumer speakers, they used the OEM top Dynaudio mid dome for years, thing is to meet their standards they had about a 40% reject rate, well Tang Band out of China makes a clone, 1/2 the cost. Now what do you think the reject rate of Cheap Chinese clones is when the real Dyn was about 50%? Almost zero! Yep Dynaudio could buy cheap Tang Band clones for 1/2 the price and it has more consistent performance. It makes you wonder why would they still build drivers? Dynaudio had financial problems and got bought by their own Chinese car speaker OEM. Their classic M and BM monitors were designed by Andy Munroe. Their later stuff since then has been all over the map, hifi included |
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Post by theshea on Apr 25, 2022 2:06:01 GMT -6
ok, lemme be the referee. i just ordered the lyd-48 :-)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2022 4:53:29 GMT -6
ok, lemme be the referee. i just ordered the lyd-48 :-) Some setup instructions if you'll allow it because these can be finicky and the manual seems more of a "general guide" than how to maximise the effect of the monitors.. Firstly I'll assume that you'll be using a half decent interface so set the sensitivity to -6dB, then select the amount of bass you want (+10 is 52, 0 is 42 and -10 is 32Hz). If your monitors are less than 50CM from the wall you'll need to engage the SBIR to wall (it say's wall or free). As for distances and angles in terms of placement they say 1.5m min equilateral at 60 degrees butttt I don't agree. These come into full focus around 1.10m, there is some give so don't be too worried if you can't get it spot on. I spent the morning troubleshooting as I seem to have a dodgy cable and comparing the Dyn's to some other monitors. When setting them up I used my Beyer Pro X's as a reference, If I can't get my monitors sounding as good or similar to them then I've messed up somewhere. I must have repositioned the Dyn's about 50 times to get it right, the bass should be on the inside (of course) but the angle was set towards my ears so it appeared like they were facing forward. After that I could put my headphones on / take them off and the Dyn's sounded clearer than the headphones. Just to note I have a LOT of no expense spared treatment in my room so I set mine to 32Hz and enjoyed the ride, even after all these years I'm still impressed at how good they sound. Upgrading won't be easy, best of luck and let us know how you get on.. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 25, 2022 7:29:46 GMT -6
ok, lemme be the referee. i just ordered the lyd-48 :-) the bass should be on the outside (of course) Bass/woofer is on the inside |
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 25, 2022 7:38:40 GMT -6
the bass should be on the outside (of course) Bass/woofer is on the inside Yep, agreed. That's how it is on the KH310s, also. And most 3-way speakers I know. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2022 8:02:07 GMT -6
the bass should be on the outside (of course) Bass/woofer is on the inside Yep, sorry.. I was looking at other monitors whilst typing. Updated.. |
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Post by theshea on Apr 25, 2022 8:36:15 GMT -6
ok, lemme be the referee. i just ordered the lyd-48 :-) Some setup instructions if you'll allow it because these can be finicky and the manual seems more of a "general guide" than how to maximise the effect of the monitors.. Firstly I'll assume that you'll be using a half decent interface so set the sensitivity to -6dB, then select the amount of bass you want (+10 is 52, 0 is 42 and -10 is 32Hz). If your monitors are less than 50CM from the wall you'll need to engage the SBIR to wall (it say's wall or free). As for distances and angles in terms of placement they say 1.5m min equilateral at 60 degrees butttt I don't agree. These come into full focus around 1.10m, there is some give so don't be too worried if you can't get it spot on. I spent the morning troubleshooting as I seem to have a dodgy cable and comparing the Dyn's to some other monitors. When setting them up I used my Beyer Pro X's as a reference, If I can't get my monitors sounding as good or similar to them then I've messed up somewhere. I must have repositioned the Dyn's about 50 times to get it right, the bass should be on the inside (of course) but the angle was set towards my ears so it appeared like they were facing forward. After that I could put my headphones on / take them off and the Dyn's sounded clearer than the headphones. Just to note I have a LOT of no expense spared treatment in my room so I set mine to 32Hz and enjoyed the ride, even after all these years I'm still impressed at how good they sound. Upgrading won't be easy, best of luck and let us know how you get on.. thanks, will try. room is threated, not perfect perfect but good. monitors should be 130 cm from ears and round 30 cm from wall. so nearfield position. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 25, 2022 8:39:57 GMT -6
Congrats! theshea I still love mine, a lot. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 25, 2022 9:22:39 GMT -6
Just like with pie, it is only natural that people have different pallets and preferences: so there no one right pie and all the rest wrong or bad. We simply have a difference of opinion/taste. I think sonic quality, is like beauty, in the mind of the beholder: just as there is no one beauty, there is no one best device to create sonic quality; experiences will naturally vary. It’s really best for people to demo gear themselves and draw their own conclusions. At best, our opinions are abstractions, removed from the reality of someone else listening with their own ears and having their own first hand experience. Yep, that's a fine load of waffle .. If the advice on every thread is just try it yourself this forum and the other one would dry up quickly. There's generally a 100 choices for everything at this point, I use owner reviews or trusted opinions to narrow them down and THEN test the final three. I've done the whole test every piece methodically one after the other thing and it takes wayyy too long (months, years even). Also y'know, we're all human, make mistakes and on occasion one might actually learn something. That's hard to do if we just end every discussion with "it's down to preference". Remember when you said metal guitar players were just as good as Tom Bukovac and I laughed at you? Remember how I realized I was being a dick and apologized? You see, my opinion didn’t necessarily change, I just realized I was being a jerk in public and that not everyone sees things the same. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2022 10:29:10 GMT -6
Remember when you said metal guitar players were just as good as Tom Bukovac and I laughed at you? Remember how I realized I was being a dick and apologized? You see, my opinion didn’t necessarily change, I just realized I was being a jerk in public and that not everyone sees things the same. Oh it is one of those day's, sorry John but I don't think I was being a jerk there. Just a fair to middling disagreement with that line of thinking, I did say on the other page there wasn't an issue.. If Matt prefers the Focal's fair enough, I shall apologise for debating, being curious and trying to understand subject matters outside of simply stating preferences. Could I have sugar coated it a bit more? Sure.. Although I didn't deem it necessary in something that was essentially nothing but a bit of back and forth mild conversation. Maybe I am a bit too blunt? If that's the case and it's not what you want then I'm happy to bow out, permanently. P.S it might have been better to send me a PM. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 25, 2022 11:22:28 GMT -6
Remember when you said metal guitar players were just as good as Tom Bukovac and I laughed at you? Remember how I realized I was being a dick and apologized? You see, my opinion didn’t necessarily change, I just realized I was being a jerk in public and that not everyone sees things the same. Oh it is one of those day's, sorry John but I don't think I was being a jerk there. Just a fair to middling disagreement with that line of thinking, I did say on the other page there wasn't an issue.. If Matt prefers the Focal's fair enough, I shall apologise for debating, being curious and trying to understand subject matters outside of simply stating preferences. Could I have sugar coated it a bit more? Sure.. Although I didn't deem it necessary in something that was essentially nothing but a bit of back and forth mild conversation. Maybe I am a bit too blunt? If that's the case and it's not what you want then I'm happy to bow out, permanently. P.S it might have been better to send me a PM. So, you got my point. I don’t want you to “bow out permanently,” but I’d prefer not to have passive aggressive bickering. |
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Post by mcirish on Apr 25, 2022 11:24:39 GMT -6
Some setup instructions if you'll allow it because these can be finicky and the manual seems more of a "general guide" than how to maximise the effect of the monitors.. Firstly I'll assume that you'll be using a half decent interface so set the sensitivity to -6dB, then select the amount of bass you want (+10 is 52, 0 is 42 and -10 is 32Hz). If your monitors are less than 50CM from the wall you'll need to engage the SBIR to wall (it say's wall or free). As for distances and angles in terms of placement they say 1.5m min equilateral at 60 degrees butttt I don't agree. These come into full focus around 1.10m, there is some give so don't be too worried if you can't get it spot on. I spent the morning troubleshooting as I seem to have a dodgy cable and comparing the Dyn's to some other monitors. When setting them up I used my Beyer Pro X's as a reference, If I can't get my monitors sounding as good or similar to them then I've messed up somewhere. I must have repositioned the Dyn's about 50 times to get it right, the bass should be on the inside (of course) but the angle was set towards my ears so it appeared like they were facing forward. After that I could put my headphones on / take them off and the Dyn's sounded clearer than the headphones. Just to note I have a LOT of no expense spared treatment in my room so I set mine to 32Hz and enjoyed the ride, even after all these years I'm still impressed at how good they sound. Upgrading won't be easy, best of luck and let us know how you get on.. thanks, will try. room is threated, not perfect perfect but good. monitors should be 130 cm from ears and round 30 cm from wall. so nearfield position. Don't get too attached to some exact distance from the wall. I found from doing tests with Sonarworks that my speakers were much, much flatter when they were closer to the wall than what the manual said. You have to take into account the room modes and the reflections off the front wall that meet with the speaker in or out of phase. I recommend doing sweep tests and moving the position of the speakers until you can get them as flat as possible under 200HZ. Absorption can fix a lot of the higher stuff but you find some extreme dips and peaks as you move the speakers closer and further from the wall. Just a tip to save you frustration. The LYD48's are great sounding speakers but every room has its problems. Moving the speakers and doing sweep test can solve a lot. Then, use something like Sonarworks to get the mix position flat. You'll never have to second guess mixes again. On a side note, I wish my room (20'x11'x8' was bigg enough that I could have made the front wall 3' thick with rigid fiberglass. That would even out the lows a bit more, but I digress. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2022 11:37:12 GMT -6
P.S it might have been better to send me a PM. So, you got my point. I don’t want you to “bow out permanently,” but I’d prefer not to have passive aggressive bickering. Sort of yes, I just honestly didn't see it that way.. I will apologise to Kcat if it's being perceived otherwise as that wasn't the intent. Probably just got wrapped up in understanding logically two sides of a coin (again).. There's most likely some things I won't ever "get" no matter how much I debate it (bluntly or otherwise), that's fine.. It's just preferences on monitors so lesson learned. I'll stop derailing and let the Shea wade in when they get their new shiny monitors. |
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Post by theshea on Apr 25, 2022 11:50:00 GMT -6
thanks, will try. room is threated, not perfect perfect but good. monitors should be 130 cm from ears and round 30 cm from wall. so nearfield position. Don't get too attached to some exact distance from the wall. I found from doing tests with Sonarworks that my speakers were much, much flatter when they were closer to the wall than what the manual said. You have to take into account the room modes and the reflections off the front wall that meet with the speaker in or out of phase. I recommend doing sweep tests and moving the position of the speakers until you can get them as flat as possible under 200HZ. Absorption can fix a lot of the higher stuff but you find some extreme dips and peaks as you move the speakers closer and further from the wall. Just a tip to save you frustration. The LYD48's are great sounding speakers but every room has its problems. Moving the speakers and doing sweep test can solve a lot. Then, use something like Sonarworks to get the mix position flat. You'll never have to second guess mixes again. On a side note, I wish my room (20'x11'x8' was bigg enough that I could have made the front wall 3' thick with rigid fiberglass. That would even out the lows a bit more, but I digress. exactly the situation in my room. rather close to the wall the low dips are best. with more distance to the wall it gets worse. i have like 20cm absorption behind the speakers on the wall. when angled my monitors almost touch the absorption. i have 20 cm absorption all around my room and 4 biiig basstraps. nothing is perfect but mixes translate well. so i am very positive that the lyd-48‘s will get me a step further. i measure with REW. |
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Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2022 11:56:39 GMT -6
thanks, will try. room is threated, not perfect perfect but good. monitors should be 130 cm from ears and round 30 cm from wall. so nearfield position. Don't get too attached to some exact distance from the wall. I found from doing tests with Sonarworks that my speakers were much, much flatter when they were closer to the wall than what the manual said. You have to take into account the room modes and the reflections off the front wall that meet with the speaker in or out of phase. I recommend doing sweep tests and moving the position of the speakers until you can get them as flat as possible under 200HZ. Absorption can fix a lot of the higher stuff but you find some extreme dips and peaks as you move the speakers closer and further from the wall. Just a tip to save you frustration. The LYD48's are great sounding speakers but every room has its problems. Moving the speakers and doing sweep test can solve a lot. Then, use something like Sonarworks to get the mix position flat. You'll never have to second guess mixes again. On a side note, I wish my room (20'x11'x8' was bigg enough that I could have made the front wall 3' thick with rigid fiberglass. That would even out the lows a bit more, but I digress. You also have to realize anything about position in any manual is but a starting point. Do you think the guy who wrote the positioning / placement instructions ever set up a pair of these? HA HA HA! Most of the time they cut and paste the manufacturers generic instructions ( Its fun to go on line and see how much of a manufacturers manuals are cut and paste). A great manufacturer would give different placement instructions for typical modern close field, traditional near field ( think a console) and more of a mastering / listening position as wells as references to surround. The one major issue I notice most vendors don’t touch in their suggestions is dealing with video monitors. ( I am waiting forAuralux to make custom video monitor socks). Understanding some basics helps, for instance if I hear a LF suck out or hole because monitors are mounted on their sides with tweeters towards the middle, I will try woofers in the center hoping I might get better LF summation. Speaker placement is all about experimentation and keeping notes. It’s all about compromise and your own priorities. |
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Post by theshea on May 4, 2022 2:47:06 GMT -6
so i have the lyd-48‘s for a few days now. 10-12 hours burn in time. only listening to songs, after burn in i will start mixing.
out of the box they sounded a lot like my focal alphas 65‘s but now they start to open up and getting tighter, clearer.
they do have a hi-mid bump me thinks: vocals are very present and contoured. resonances, harshness or sibilance is easily heard on these. but on perfect pro mix/mastered songs they do not sound harsh or overly bright.
kick and bass guitar i hope will get clearer and tighter. in dense mixes they still sound only just a tiny bit clearer than on the alphas. i played with the switches on the back and they all make useful differencies.
i still have to play a bit to find the right position in my room.
after a quick first REW measurement the bass goes low and is rather even but shows two plus bumps at 700hz and 2.7khz (thats why vocals bop out).
reverb/depth starts to open up as well as i can hear reverbtails better now. stereo positioning is spectacular: i can really „see“ where a sound is coming from!
right. ow the speakers are 145 cm apart and my ears sit at round 120 cm from the tweeter. the bass port is like 50 cm from the wall and bass sound clearer with the „wall“ setting.
these are my first impressions. i will break the in some more 10 hours and start my first mix on them.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 4, 2022 4:45:32 GMT -6
Have fun getting to know them. I really liked the mid range presence.
Your comment about the bass (kick ) clarity, hopefully, the texture gets more subtle as they break in.
I’d still recommend demoing some good passive radiator design some time, you may prefer their bass texture.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2022 5:39:43 GMT -6
reverb/depth starts to open up as well as i can hear reverbtails better now. stereo positioning is spectacular: i can really „see“ where a sound is coming from!
Yep, pretty cool huh? Bass below 65Hz is where the LYD struggles IMO but I adapted to it after a while, also I've yet to hear a monitor sub $2.5K that really nails everything. Although it's that age old thing, everything sounds great until you hear something better. I really like the LYD 48's, used them for years and just cracked on without a second thought.. But, because of the monitor test I can't un-hear what I've heard LOL.. I think my point is at some stage you just have to say that's good enough and accept that ignorance is bliss. |
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 7, 2022 9:23:23 GMT -6
Just like with pie, it is only natural that people have different pallets and preferences: so there no one right pie and all the rest wrong or bad. We simply have a difference of opinion/taste. I think sonic quality, is like beauty, in the mind of the beholder: just as there is no one beauty, there is no one best device to create sonic quality; experiences will naturally vary. It’s really best for people to demo gear themselves and draw their own conclusions. At best, our opinions are abstractions, removed from the reality of someone else listening with their own ears and having their own first hand experience. Bumping this, I'm quite close to pulling the trigger on the Dynaudio LYD 48 but I do have a pretty decent sized room. 16x18 and 10 foot high ceiling, treated and professionally designed. I'm ditching my current near fields (Sonics Anima By Joachim Gerhard ps. dm if interested, they are for sale! haha) because they aren't really loud enough in this space. But your post has me wondering if the LYD48 will be okay in a room that size? Any insight from users? I don't mix that loud but occasionally track in the control room and sometimes bands like to hear it back a bit on the loud side etc. From all the research I've done it seems like they are some of the best in class at this price point and maintain their sound at all diff volume levels. I know I should be testing and shooting out but it's not possible at this moment. I will be doing that during the next monitor upgrade tho in a few yrs. thanks guys! Great thread BTW Edit: I found the original blue prints when it was built in the early 90s ! |
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 7, 2022 10:00:34 GMT -6
Just like with pie, it is only natural that people have different pallets and preferences: so there no one right pie and all the rest wrong or bad. We simply have a difference of opinion/taste. I think sonic quality, is like beauty, in the mind of the beholder: just as there is no one beauty, there is no one best device to create sonic quality; experiences will naturally vary. It’s really best for people to demo gear themselves and draw their own conclusions. At best, our opinions are abstractions, removed from the reality of someone else listening with their own ears and having their own first hand experience. Bumping this, I'm quite close to pulling the trigger on the Dynaudio LYD 48 but I do have a pretty decent sized room. 16x18 and 10 foot high ceiling, treated and professionally designed. I'm ditching my current near fields (Sonics Anima By Joachim Gerhard ps. dm if interested, they are for sale! haha) because they aren't really loud enough in this space. But your post has me wondering if the LYD48 will be okay in a room that size? Any insight from users? I don't mix that loud but occasionally track in the control room and sometimes bands like to hear it back a bit on the loud side etc. From all the research I've done it seems like they are some of the best in class at this price point and maintain their sound at all diff volume levels. I know I should be testing and shooting out but it's not possible at this moment. I will be doing that during the next monitor upgrade tho in a few yrs. thanks guys! Great thread BTW Edit: I found the original blue prints when it was built in the early 90s ! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 7, 2022 10:07:16 GMT -6
Your room has a lot more volume than mine and higher ceilings.
If you are buying new and can return, I’d say try them.
Remember, I came to understand, I preferred closed not ported monitors, you may have different preferences.
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 7, 2022 11:05:35 GMT -6
Yeah, monitors are so personal and room specific. I guess that's the only way to find out! haha Thanks kcatthedog!
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Post by phdamage on Sept 7, 2022 12:03:14 GMT -6
Bumping this, I'm quite close to pulling the trigger on the Dynaudio LYD 48 but I do have a pretty decent sized room. 16x18 and 10 foot high ceiling, treated and professionally designed. I'm ditching my current near fields (Sonics Anima By Joachim Gerhard ps. dm if interested, they are for sale! haha) because they aren't really loud enough in this space. But your post has me wondering if the LYD48 will be okay in a room that size? Any insight from users? I don't mix that loud but occasionally track in the control room and sometimes bands like to hear it back a bit on the loud side etc. From all the research I've done it seems like they are some of the best in class at this price point and maintain their sound at all diff volume levels. I know I should be testing and shooting out but it's not possible at this moment. I will be doing that during the next monitor upgrade tho in a few yrs. thanks guys! Great thread BTW Edit: I found the original blue prints when it was built in the early 90s ! I have a very similarly sized room and while for mixing, they are perfectly fine, if bands really wanna crank it while tracking, I often find I'm diming my monitor level when I'm using Sonarworks (literally always) as the level adjustment it makes for safe headroom drops my output considerably. I am going as full range as possible with these, so I know it makes me lose level that way, also. I'm pretty sold on adding a sub. |
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.. If the advice on every thread is just try it yourself this forum and the other one would dry up quickly. There's generally a 100 choices for everything at this point, I use owner reviews or trusted opinions to narrow them down and THEN test the final three. I've done the whole test every piece methodically one after the other thing and it takes wayyy too long (months, years even).
