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Post by plinker on Nov 18, 2021 10:58:42 GMT -6
It's good either way for me, I've no issues with challenging assertions and heated debates. Not that this is one, it's all rather tame.. Cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich anyone? Yes I meant purely from a personal perspective! I think personal ethics are extremely important. And I will be the first to admit that I am terrible with money, so I would be a hypocrite telling anyone else how to spend or not spend their money. I'm trying to get better. The topic of this thread is very relevant to me. I buy a lot of stuff "just because," not with any real burning need. Something I need to meditate on, I guess. For example, I'll probably let a lot of black friday plugin deals come and go this year. I think I've come far enough to at least do that much (little.) I wish I could give 5 thumbs-up on this post. Been spending like you for a long time -- but I'm slowly getting back onto the wagon of reality.
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Post by drsax on Nov 18, 2021 11:17:02 GMT -6
There’s a fine line between want and need when it comes to audio gear. Having an essential recording chain that is excellent is of great value. But learning to use what you have to make results that sound uncompromised is invaluable. Early on, I was taught that I already had what I needed to do some thing well. (Hard work and creativity goes along way). In today’s audio world, we are spoiled with options. The first several hits I ever produced for clients were done on equipment that other engineers laughed at, but it wasn’t about the gear, it was about the results, and about the ear. One of the most important pieces of advice that I give to people who ask me how to pursue recording/production/mixing, is to not go into major debt. For example, it may be wise once or twice to do 0% financing to purchase a few pieces that will be forever pieces in your studio and can be the bread and butter of your set up, (and have a very conservative and fool proof plan to pay that off before you miss the deadline and pay triple the price for your gear), but it would be foolish to go into a lot of debt for higher quality gear in an industry where operating from a deficit will put you out of business before you even get started. Knowing how to get the best out of modest gear is more valuable than having expensive equipment and not understanding how to use it to it’s potential. IMO, electronic drum kits are money down the drain. They are fine for now to get by, but will be obsolete before you know it. You’re just as well using drum sample software on your computer and programming the drums in with a keyboard. If you’ve got money to spare, a digital drum set might be useful, but I certainly wouldn’t consider it essential. A great microphone, preamp, and respectable converter (ie. UA Apollo or better) Would be a much greater value.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 18, 2021 11:59:43 GMT -6
The funny thing is, you can book some amazing studios (at least in the Bay Area) for such reasonable amounts of money these days. One can make an argument that the true intersection of quality and great value now is in using a studio for hire for at least your basic tracks. True you don't own the gear, but it does open the door to tracking drums with far fewer compromises.
At the same time, I love SD3 and Hansa, so I am of two minds about this. You can do good work both ways. Greatness is for history to judge.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 18, 2021 20:51:22 GMT -6
I don't really know anything about e-drums but I can share with you my general thinking. I apply this to audio gear, furniture, clothes... whatever. 1) I don't have enough money to buy cheap stuff. Old timey phrase... just means that cheap stuff often needs to be replaced. Measure twice, cut once. 2) That said, we live in times (especially in audio world) where sometimes you're paying for things that aren't real. It's one thing to "get that extra 10%", it's another to just be paying for a brand. My favorite go-to is my Epiphone Masterbilt guitar which is just simply better than guitars costing 2x that much. I don't care if those guitars have a "better" name on the headstock, they're not better. Same applies to cars and a lot of other things. I don't mind paying for things I think are better (I own Neve gear, Neumann gear) but I don't mind buying things that are good and cheap (I use my DBX 160x on literally every mix). The two favorite cars I've owned were a Honda Fit and a BMW 328i. I loved them equally. 3) I'm starting to think that there are some things that you just get what you pay for. Those things are shoes and microphones. 4) I'm starting to think nobody gives a shit if my shoes are Goodyear welted or not and I'm wondering if everyone I know is tired of me trying to push the Beyer m160 on them. 5) Most of my shoes and most of my mics will still be great 20 years from now. And I could very easily never buy another pair of shoes or another microphone and be just fine. 6) MOST IMPORTANT... does it get multiple uses? And if I hate it can I get rid of it? Those are the real keys, especially the first one. I really don't like specialty gear. For anything. Yeah, yeah, I know... every tool for its purpose. I get that. But some tools have a purpose of having multiple purposes, I prefer those tools. 7) Last point...and this might seem contradictory, I myself don't want to be a multi-purpose tool. So yeah I want versatile things but those things are all driving towards a very specific vision. It's just the way I am. I have a specific way my home looks, a specific sense of clothing style, a specific way I think hockey/baseball/football players should play, a specific taste in food, a specific way I want my music to sound, and a specific way I want YOUR music to sound if you're recording with me. If you don't like it, that's fine... go eat/wear/listen to/look at something else. So what does this mean for you? Who knows. Just don't buy shit you can't sell later, that's my main advice. Other than that, follow your gut. Nice post. In reference to the question - it really just depends on where you are in your “journey.” At this point - I want to be efficient. It bothers me when I have redundancy. I used to say “this isn’t just what I do for a living, it’s also my hobby…” Well, I’ve finally kind’ve lost a little interest in the hobby part of it. I just kindve want the tools for the end result. And I’ll add - I don’t think the hobby part of it is bad at all. It’s the passion for collecting. It brought me a ton of joy along the way. Now I’d kindve rather have money lol.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2021 23:03:09 GMT -6
It's good either way for me, I've no issues with challenging assertions and heated debates. Not that this is one, it's all rather tame.. Cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich anyone? Yes I meant purely from a personal perspective! I think personal ethics are extremely important. And I will be the first to admit that I am terrible with money, so I would be a hypocrite telling anyone else how to spend or not spend their money. I'm trying to get better. The topic of this thread is very relevant to me. I buy a lot of stuff "just because," not with any real burning need. Something I need to meditate on, I guess. For example, I'll probably let a lot of black friday plugin deals come and go this year. I think I've come far enough to at least do that much (little.) Hrr, struggling to write tonight. One last time I swear.. So, here's my reasoning.. On one side life can be pretty dull sometimes and money's doesn't mean much when you're dead. If you can reasonably afford something and it'll bring some joy then why not? On the other hand there's only so much stuff one needs, the core question is what are you doing this for? Some like to collect music stuff / mess around with it but for others it's just a means to an end. It's fine either way but I fall into the latter camp and the primary purpose is to make music. In my pro audio day's I was pretty skint and had to make do with relatively inexpensive incremental upgrades, it wasn't until I made a career elsewhere that I could afford whatever I wanted (within reason). Unfortunately by that point I didn't have much time to use it, enjoyed having an LFAC and some super shiny mic's for a while though. If nothing else the experience did allow me to gain some perspective and I wasn't missing out much by having the "lesser" equipment beforehand. To re-arrange a very long waffly previous post, it's too easy to get caught up in the bullcrap of this venture. I've gone out, tested everything I could with no doubts in my mind about my current setup.. I agree with what most are saying and I shouldn't skimp at the last hurdle, the ATV / Mimic has so many pro's despite it being severely overpriced (like all e-drums are) so I'll just buy it. I have far better mic's than a WA-8000 so it can go on the back burner for now, it's just a fancy anyway. svart the Pearl mimic runs SSD5, it just uses a completely different interface with a boat load of options for e-drums.
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Post by svart on Nov 19, 2021 8:15:35 GMT -6
Well, I’ve finally kind’ve lost a little interest in the hobby part of it. I just kindve want the tools for the end result. And I’ll add - I don’t think the hobby part of it is bad at all. It’s the passion for collecting. It brought me a ton of joy along the way. Now I’d kindve rather have money lol. Dude. You put into words what I've been feeling for a few years now but never really said out loud to myself. I've essentially stopped "experimenting" with the gear, the setup and whatnot. I've cut down to just what works for me now. I've been doing less "getting tones" and more "let me try to finish this song" lately. I used to get lost in the process instead of using the process.
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Post by svart on Nov 19, 2021 8:16:58 GMT -6
Yes I meant purely from a personal perspective! I think personal ethics are extremely important. And I will be the first to admit that I am terrible with money, so I would be a hypocrite telling anyone else how to spend or not spend their money. I'm trying to get better. The topic of this thread is very relevant to me. I buy a lot of stuff "just because," not with any real burning need. Something I need to meditate on, I guess. For example, I'll probably let a lot of black friday plugin deals come and go this year. I think I've come far enough to at least do that much (little.) Hrr, struggling to write tonight. One last time I swear.. So, here's my reasoning.. On one side life can be pretty dull sometimes and money's doesn't mean much when you're dead. If you can reasonably afford something and it'll bring some joy then why not? On the other hand there's only so much stuff one needs, the core question is what are you doing this for? Some like to collect music stuff / mess around with it but for others it's just a means to an end. It's fine either way but I fall into the latter camp and the primary purpose is to make music. In my pro audio day's I was pretty skint and had to make do with relatively inexpensive incremental upgrades, it wasn't until I made a career elsewhere that I could afford whatever I wanted (within reason). Unfortunately by that point I didn't have much time to use it, enjoyed having an LFAC and some super shiny mic's for a while though. If nothing else the experience did allow me to gain some perspective and I wasn't missing out much by having the "lesser" equipment beforehand. To re-arrange a very long waffly previous post, it's too easy to get caught up in the bullcrap of this venture. I've gone out, tested everything I could with no doubts in my mind about my current setup.. I agree with what most are saying and I shouldn't skimp at the last hurdle, the ATV / Mimic has so many pro's despite it being severely overpriced (like all e-drums are) so I'll just buy it. I have far better mic's than a WA-8000 so it can go on the back burner for now, it's just a fancy anyway. svart the Pearl mimic runs SSD5, it just uses a completely different interface with a boat load of options for e-drums. Ok, I see. I didn't really give the Pearl video a fair listen the other day but I went back and listened today. Definitely a better overall sound than the yamaha. Much more articulate and almost realistic sounding. In a mix I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 19, 2021 11:49:25 GMT -6
I'm with Johnkenn and svart right now. For the past year and a half, I've been very busy in my commercial spot. Efficiency is key to my business and I've been buying mostly based on improving efficiency, ergonomics, and vibe rather than next hot piece of gear. I have tons of fun messing with gear, but don't have the time for the fun playing anymore.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 19, 2021 12:13:44 GMT -6
I'm with Johnkenn and svart right now. For the past year and a half, I've been very busy in my commercial spot. Efficiency is key to my business and I've been buying mostly based on improving efficiency, ergonomics, and vibe rather than next hot piece of gear. I have tons of fun messing with gear, but don't have the time for the fun playing anymore. Didn’t you just buy a console? 😂 Which is awesome, BTW.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 19, 2021 12:36:35 GMT -6
I'm with Johnkenn and svart right now. For the past year and a half, I've been very busy in my commercial spot. Efficiency is key to my business and I've been buying mostly based on improving efficiency, ergonomics, and vibe rather than next hot piece of gear. I have tons of fun messing with gear, but don't have the time for the fun playing anymore. Didn’t you just buy a console? 😂 Which is awesome, BTW. Well yeah, but that's a functional improvement. My previous console was having a bunch of issues and and upgrade was needed. That 5088 is unbelievable though. My God, what an upgrade.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 19, 2021 13:30:50 GMT -6
Yes I meant purely from a personal perspective! I think personal ethics are extremely important. And I will be the first to admit that I am terrible with money, so I would be a hypocrite telling anyone else how to spend or not spend their money. I'm trying to get better. The topic of this thread is very relevant to me. I buy a lot of stuff "just because," not with any real burning need. Something I need to meditate on, I guess. For example, I'll probably let a lot of black friday plugin deals come and go this year. I think I've come far enough to at least do that much (little.) Hrr, struggling to write tonight. One last time I swear.. So, here's my reasoning.. On one side life can be pretty dull sometimes and money's doesn't mean much when you're dead. If you can reasonably afford something and it'll bring some joy then why not? On the other hand there's only so much stuff one needs, the core question is what are you doing this for? Some like to collect music stuff / mess around with it but for others it's just a means to an end. It's fine either way but I fall into the latter camp and the primary purpose is to make music. In my pro audio day's I was pretty skint and had to make do with relatively inexpensive incremental upgrades, it wasn't until I made a career elsewhere that I could afford whatever I wanted (within reason). Unfortunately by that point I didn't have much time to use it, enjoyed having an LFAC and some super shiny mic's for a while though. If nothing else the experience did allow me to gain some perspective and I wasn't missing out much by having the "lesser" equipment beforehand. To re-arrange a very long waffly previous post, it's too easy to get caught up in the bullcrap of this venture. I've gone out, tested everything I could with no doubts in my mind about my current setup.. I agree with what most are saying and I shouldn't skimp at the last hurdle, the ATV / Mimic has so many pro's despite it being severely overpriced (like all e-drums are) so I'll just buy it. I have far better mic's than a WA-8000 so it can go on the back burner for now, it's just a fancy anyway. svart the Pearl mimic runs SSD5, it just uses a completely different interface with a boat load of options for e-drums. I have a Drum Tec kit with the Roland TD-50x module and digital Snare, Ride and Hi-hat. I record the MIDI from the Roland and then post trigger Superior 3. The Roland is sub 2ms latency - I can't stand triggering Superior 3/SSD5 or BFD3 software direct - it's just too "soggy" to get the groove pocketed. One thing I can rightly recommend that will COMPLETELY and UTTERLY change your E drumming experience into a dream come true is this, www.porteranddavies.co.uk/shop/bc-gigster-rig-low-throne-base/The tactile feedback via bone conduction is like playing a huge acoustic kit in a fantastic large room - it's mesmerizing and overcomes that E-Drum kit disconnect you get. I'd get a lesser kit and the P&D if the budget doesn't run to both. The P&D is THAT good!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 14:13:16 GMT -6
Well, I’ve finally kind’ve lost a little interest in the hobby part of it. I just kindve want the tools for the end result. And I’ll add - I don’t think the hobby part of it is bad at all. It’s the passion for collecting. It brought me a ton of joy along the way. Now I’d kindve rather have money lol. Dude. You put into words what I've been feeling for a few years now but never really said out loud to myself. I've essentially stopped "experimenting" with the gear, the setup and whatnot. I've cut down to just what works for me now. I've been doing less "getting tones" and more "let me try to finish this song" lately. I used to get lost in the process instead of using the process. When the song is right, the tone tends to be right! and besides I got Elysia Phil’s Cascade and PSP Avedis E27. I can fix scooped bullshit tones in 2 minutes if the part is played well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 12:07:03 GMT -6
I've been thinking about this over the last couple of weeks, I just don't take this seriously enough anymore and I find most of it to be a chore. Experimenting with patches, mic's, mixing techniques, researching, testing etc. has become tiresome at best and I essentially want to just walk in, play some stuff and walk out.
So, when I start looking at equipment it's a losing battle because I don't really want to spend anything, never mind another 20K+ on top of the 50K+ I've already spent. Yeah, it might have sounded crap but this was a lot more fun when I had nothing but an interface and an SM58.. Now it's an all encompassing obsession with sound quality and competing. Which really is sour grapes when a couple of successful songs don't even sound all that great technically speaking.
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Post by christopher on Nov 26, 2021 15:54:33 GMT -6
I was reminded recently why I got into this. Renting studio time and dealing with guys who don’t understand genres I’m into, not wanting to experiment, people stuck in their ways and forcing their will on the session. And the worst is when they are taught by the software marketing guys, and they echo the marketing claims, so painful. I just have to remind myself to stay calm, friendly, agreeable, and laugh at the situation. I know they want a great result for the limited time available, it’s not a big deal, though it can be a little frustrating.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 26, 2021 22:13:13 GMT -6
Well, I’ve finally kind’ve lost a little interest in the hobby part of it. I just kindve want the tools for the end result. And I’ll add - I don’t think the hobby part of it is bad at all. It’s the passion for collecting. It brought me a ton of joy along the way. Now I’d kindve rather have money lol. Dude. You put into words what I've been feeling for a few years now but never really said out loud to myself. I've essentially stopped "experimenting" with the gear, the setup and whatnot. I've cut down to just what works for me now. I've been doing less "getting tones" and more "let me try to finish this song" lately. I used to get lost in the process instead of using the process. I resonate a lot with this post ... lately. Yeah we get lost in gear choosing these days, and it always hits me hard when I read that Bill Withers for example sung into cheap Shure dynamics. Conclusion... the man can sing and the microphone choice is secondary. My compromises in gear? It depends some compromises are good ones, others are bad choices....
Its a good question.
I just can answer for myself. First of all:
I would not invest 7.5 k in a mic these days, because I don’t know if Covid is hitting my business even harder, this is a lot $$€€ for me in this time. Some compromises are good I was about to buy an SM7B again, but the decision wasn’t wise, and I went with a China SM7B clone. Knowing that it’s close but misses some of that lush smoothnes of the original. But hey for 70 bucks I can’t go wrong. Some might remember asking about a more expensive tube mic vs. using my UMT70. See above I can sing but I am not BW. Would a 4k mic make my song much better versus the UMT. I guess no, because my singing is good but far away from near perfect control over my vocal cords. In the end of the day the whole audio thing is a compromise. Our hearing is not getting better with age. I am good with compromises my focus is the flow of creativity special with the new lock-downs lurking around the corners... But that’s just me with limited financial resources. I doubt that I would change with winning the lottery, I am no longer living outside in. That would have been different 5 years ago.
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