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Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2021 16:53:16 GMT -6
One reason I find this thread and topic interesting is that while some folks go to great expense buying high end mixing/mastering mojo boxes like the Whitestone (5k) to inject old school dimension and warmth to their mixes, Mara sells a similarly priced refurbished actual tape machine. I’m not saying they do exactly the same thing—but the sonic goal is similar. I get the headache of a multitrack machine and never plan to go down that road. But the simpler two tracks intrigue me.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 8, 2021 17:15:11 GMT -6
^^This^^, I thought long and hard about a Mara 2 track a couple of years ago.
You could use all your regular gear and tape final mix and go back to digital too.
I had my first album mastered to an ampex 102 by an rgoer MA, sounded great.
I understand the Maramci and an ampex would sound different but their studio does demo masters for you, so I had that done too and thought the refurb mcu sounded great too. Real decision was 1/4 or 1/2 inch and price difference, then cdn $ started tanking vs greenback: drag.
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Post by enlav on Nov 8, 2021 17:35:22 GMT -6
One reason I find this thread and topic interesting is that while some folks go to great expense buying high end mixing/mastering mojo boxes like the Whitestone (5k) to inject old school dimension and warmth to their mixes, Mara sells a similarly priced refurbished actual tape machine. I’m not saying they do exactly the same thing—but the sonic goal is similar. I get the headache of a multitrack machine and never plan to go down that road. But the simpler two tracks intrigue me. I wonder if tape costs has anything to do with it. I'm guessing anyone with the budget to pick up a refurbished machine or willing to deal with the maintenance costs may not feel as big an impact on that end, but I haven't needed to look at costs in a long time.
My old go-to ME used to use an Ampex tape machine similar to what you're mentioning, lpedrum (though, just for the final stereo in this case). From what I understand, to add something and warm up tracks if it called for it; but I remember him saying a lot of program material he was getting hadn't really needed it these days (whenever it was I talked with him last).
A place in town here was using a Studer A-800, hitting tape with the monitoring/playback going into their AD, which seems like a good way to take what you want from tape but stay in a DAW for all other purposes. If these refurbs were really reliable and low maintenance (and I won the lottery), I would absolutely do something like that.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 8, 2021 17:44:25 GMT -6
My understanding, YouTube videos, interviews, is that they are fully rebuilt and calibrated.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 8, 2021 17:45:40 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Nov 8, 2021 18:13:48 GMT -6
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Post by keymod on Nov 10, 2021 10:26:25 GMT -6
Both worked for Randy Blevins.
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Post by svart on Nov 10, 2021 13:07:46 GMT -6
After having tons of bands tell me that they would love to record to tape..
I bought a 2" 24 track Tascam. One of the last made tape machines, probably the most reliable tape machine models ever made too..
Haven't recorded a single band with it. Seems that the cost of tape is a huge turnoff to bands. Somehow their love of "the sound of tape" doesn't mean they'll pay 1000$ for a half dozen rolls of tape to do their EP. It generated a lot of interest but that pricetag made more than a couple folks hang up on me.
Anyway, I've done a dozen tape transfers that have gone well but even that kinda dried up.
I did a lot of my own tracking and experimentation on the machine but even that became more of a chore and now it sits there.
Wanna buy it? It's about half recapped.
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Post by robschnapf on Nov 10, 2021 13:47:31 GMT -6
The molex is a legit concern/bummer. You can recap the machine and do all the necessary electrical and mechanical maintenance And then get fucked 4 ways sideways by the molex. But with that being said, I love how the machines sound and specially love the sound of whatever the hell those MCI transformers were. MARA machines sound real good!
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Post by svart on Nov 10, 2021 13:56:45 GMT -6
Mara held a "tape machine" get together here in the ATL a few years back. They billed it as a "learn tips and tricks for tape and meet your peers" kinda of thing but when I went I could tell pretty quickly it was just a sales pitch for maramachines. Not a deal breaker for me as it was cool to meet so many folks though.
However, during the meet and greet time, I talked to Chris Mara for a few minutes about tape and such before I mentioned that I already had a tape machine. He was suddenly not interested in talking to me anymore and he practically walked away in the midst of the conversation. The presentation was all about his machines and how they were superior to everything else out there, etc. There was very little "tips and tricks" other than "use our machines". It was pretty clear it wasn't about interacting with the tape-users community like the advertisement alluded to, but solely about selling his machines.
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Post by keymod on Nov 10, 2021 15:48:55 GMT -6
From 1980 to 1984 I worked shipping & Receiving for Audiotechniques, Inc. who were a major pro audio dealer, especially MCI, in the New York area. For a while, it seemed like we were delivering an MCI console or multitrack every other week, all throughout the tri-state area and as far south as Virginia and north up into Vermont. We did installations out in Fort Worth, Texas and we were all set to do a huge studio in Africa but a military coup put a stop to that one. They were selling like hotcakes. Bob Berliner, one of the founders of Audiotechniques, was an ex-Scully guy and he went on to start Redco Audio which is now run by his son David.
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Post by kyamcalvert on Nov 10, 2021 19:08:10 GMT -6
From 1980 to 1984 I worked shipping & Receiving for Audiotechniques, Inc. who were a major pro audio dealer, especially MCI, in the New York area. For a while, it seemed like we were delivering an MCI console or multitrack every other week, all throughout the tri-state area and as far south as Virginia and north up into Vermont. We did installations out in Fort Worth, Texas and we were all set to do a huge studio in Africa but a military coup put a stop to that one. They were selling like hotcakes. Bob Berliner, one of the founders of Audiotechniques, was an ex-Scully guy and he went on to start Redco Audio which is now run by his son David. Cool! Love posts like this. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by jmoose on Nov 11, 2021 15:41:44 GMT -6
2 - pet projects and ones I’m emotionally invested in. I’ve got absolutely no dreams of using this thing every day to track bands. I’ve got no reason to be an “all analogue” house. I know that even if a band really wants to cut to tape, they either won’t have the budget or honestly just won’t be good enough to make it happen for themselves. Upfront I've owned MCI machines, friend of mine had I think 6 at one point... split between 3 track/mix rooms and an edit suite... and another friend of mine owns 3 JH24's to keep one running. Could spew endless tales about them. I personally find it hard to buy into the "we can't afford tape" trip. Last EP I made on tape? Six days in a not in-expensive but not stupid studio, flights for band members & gear..? All that stuff and new ATR reels were the least expensive item on the budget. Think we spent just as much on food. Hell I think we spent more on mastering? If someone's trying to get a dozen songs in a couple days for $1500? Sure. Probably can't afford tape. But any other reasonably budget'd project? Shouldn't be an issue. Personally I don't believe a maintenance free analog tape machine exists. Some are more stable & require less day to day... like an Otari and others like a MCI need more day to day love. If you can't wrench on it yourself the machine will break you. Any brand. At the same time I also don't believe in owning a tape machine that's NOT a daily driver. If you have it, and make it available it needs to work. Period. Otherwise its just a really big expensive studio decoration, like an overgrown beenie baby. Too many times, as a freelancer I've gotten burned by someone that says they have a working tape machine... then you get there and realize that today is the first time its seen power in 6+ months... That machine may run. Sorta. But its not something you can actually make a record on. Tons of those out there, always selling cheap... Flip side of having a 2" 24 track... do you have a proper console and infrastructure to make it viable? Yes I've been in a few situations where there's no console and we're monitoring through DAW inputs & using a mouse and keyboard to mix. Yes it kinda works. Yes it also sucks. Even if its a "track & get out" scenario? Still sucks. Setups like that I can't help but think of the tape machine as a giant FX box. Especially when its obvious that the machine hasn't seen routine maintenance in a decade or two... whuz an MRL? Alignment tones..? IMO kinda need to decide which side of the fence you want to live on... One is where the tape machine works. Can flip it on, wind a reel and roll w/ no real problems for a week. Other is where the tape machine isn't reliable. Can we use that? Umm... maybe? It was kinda acting up last time we tried it...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 22, 2021 11:05:25 GMT -6
My main complaint about tape is the poor quality of contemporary tape stock compared to what we all took for granted from 3M.
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Post by jmoose on Nov 22, 2021 14:38:44 GMT -6
My main complaint about tape is the poor quality of contemporary tape stock compared to what we all took for granted from 3M. You haven't liked the ATR reels? What else is out there for new tape stock? Not using that much tape these days but the handful of times I have over the last few years I thought the ATR stuff was fine. Obviously you've got a few years on me but I don't have too many fond memories of 3M. You probably got those reels new, where by the time I started in audio... mid 90s most of the 996 that passed through my hands was already well used and beat. Anyway I think the ATR stuff in general is equal to/higher quality then what Quantegy was doing towards the end... aside from GP9 the only stuff I used was BASF/Emtech SM900. Not that I liked the tone of 900 as much as others but at least I never got a wonky batch.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 22, 2021 14:47:27 GMT -6
I've always had drop-out problems with ATR.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 22, 2021 15:22:12 GMT -6
Some folks have alluded to this or outright said the quality of tape just isn't as good now. Vance Powell said he loved Mike Spitz but not the tape. So he uses sealed Scotch 250. I think Steve Albini has alluded to this as well as some others. Real good tape apparently came from very nasty production/materials(much like my beloved plain enamel wire in my pickup business world) and some of these techniques and materials are now banned. (like benzine that is in scotch 250 and plain enamel wire). Good old petroleum.
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Post by christopher on Nov 22, 2021 15:47:36 GMT -6
I’ve only used a few new reels. One thing that the consumer forums mention is that the new stuff can have loose dust, they recommend wrap a cotton swab around it while rewinding. There are ads from the 70s where Ampex proudly stated they check every reel for dropout before shipping. I don’t think the new guys know about that here’s a 1983 ad, page 11, im pretty sure it’s in older issues too in case a manufacturer sees this: worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Recording-Engineer/80s/Recording-1983-04.pdf
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 22, 2021 16:24:41 GMT -6
I passed on this machine. I had a conversation with a buddy who is also a gear lover, and he said - “bro, you haven’t even built the studio yet wtf are you thinking?”
That pretty much put me back on this planet haha. Oh well maybe another good deal will come along when I’m up and running. I’ll have the space for it and will certainly have all my wiring set up so I can eventually go that rout if I decide to do so In the future!
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Post by drbill on Nov 22, 2021 17:04:15 GMT -6
I passed on this machine. I had a conversation with a buddy who is also a gear lover, and he said - “bro, you haven’t even built the studio yet wtf are you thinking?” That pretty much put me back on this planet haha. Oh well maybe another good deal will come along when I’m up and running. I’ll have the space for it and will certainly have all my wiring set up so I can eventually go that rout if I decide to do so In the future! smart man. But you don't want a good deal when you get there. You want a verifiable good MACHINE that will have backup support on it. That's worth 10-100X's more than you will save on the "good deal". Good luck with the studio build!!
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