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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 28, 2021 15:46:30 GMT -6
Anyone do this? I just had this idea pop up out of nowhere I was thinking it could be interesting to try.
The idea is that when I am running external hardware to then bring it back in through Console and potentially add, say, an EQ plug in there before sending it back to the DAW. I realize that this is functionally the same thing as just adding the plug-in in the insert section of the DAW, but I think for my mindset I’m less likely to get fiddly and more likely to treat it like outboard gear if I do it this way. Plus I can leave the plug-in open all the time in Console if I want to make adjustments without cluttering up my screen in the DAW.
I don’t know. Could be fun too.
So, has anyone tried this?
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 28, 2021 15:54:33 GMT -6
Ah, if you just run your ob pre or line device into your ob gear and then send its output to an Apollo line input and set Apollo console channel input to that line input, then you could use what ever non unison plug ins you want and the console aux.
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Post by nick8801 on Oct 28, 2021 16:01:55 GMT -6
When I had Apollo I did just that with oxide tape. Everything came back “to tape”.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 28, 2021 16:07:44 GMT -6
Sounds like others have thought this way. Just to be clear I’m talking about for mixing purposes. I already do this recording.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 28, 2021 16:09:26 GMT -6
Why wouldn’t you just put UA plugs in your daw snd use it’s inserts , console is not for mixing or do you mean Luna ?
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Post by deaconblues on Oct 28, 2021 16:11:01 GMT -6
I am going to try setting things up this way, but don’t have my new patchbay setup just yet to accommodate. Soooon.
I think you can also send your signal in and right back out and have UA inserts in the middle of your outboard gear as well. Seems like this would work with Console. I’m sure there are dsp limitations per channel, etc. Let me know how it goes!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 28, 2021 16:18:20 GMT -6
Why wouldn’t you just put UA plugs in your daw snd use it’s inserts , console is not for mixing or do you mean Luna ? Well I certainly COULD do that. But what fun would that be? Seriously though, the idea is to keep myself in more of a music focused mindset as opposed to a tweaking plug-ins mindset if that makes sense. So the signal chain might look like this… Out of DAW through Line Out on Apollo Into compressor Into Condole through Line In on Apollo Into EQ plug-in Into DAW I haven’t tried it but I am feeling like that could be a workflow and mindset benefits to doing it this way. I can leave the plug-in window open all the time and consul and just pull console up if I want to make an adjustment. Again, I carry myself to think about the plug-in more the way I think about hardware. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 28, 2021 16:19:51 GMT -6
I am going to try setting things up this way, but don’t have my new patchbay setup just yet to accommodate. Soooon. I think you can also send your signal in and right back out and have UA inserts in the middle of your outboard gear as well. Seems like this would work with Console. I’m sure there are dsp limitations per channel, etc. Let me know how it goes! That’s intriguing. How would that work? I’d love to put a plug-in between two pieces of hardware. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 28, 2021 16:58:48 GMT -6
Console is not designed for mixing.
So, you are not using Luna because it’s inserts aren’t fully functional yet?
What daw are you using?
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 28, 2021 17:03:01 GMT -6
If you have all your I/o on a patchbay , you just send a signal to an Apollo line out, patch that to your ob in, patch obi output back to Apollo and console for plug in then you could repeat that for more post plug in ob, if that is what you wanted ?
The issue is going to be controlling for rtl.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 28, 2021 17:15:45 GMT -6
Console is not designed for mixing. So, you are not using Luna because it’s inserts aren’t fully functional yet? What daw are you using? ______ If you have all your I/o on a patchbay , you just send a signal to an Apollo line out, patch that to your ob in, patch obi output back to Apollo and console for plug in then you could repeat that for more post plug in ob, if that is what you wanted ? The issue is going to be controlling for rtl. Right, I wouldn't be mixing in Console, I'd be mixing in Studio One. I already do this except without the plugins inserted at Console. So, for example, I run a few different busses through a couple different hardware chains. But occasionally I need to modify the sound because, let's say, a compressor or something tweaked the low end in a way I didn't like so I want to boost it back with EQ. So I'll just boost it by inserting a plug-in on the DAW. But what I'm wondering is why not do that in Console so that I can mentally envision this as one big hardware chain, not a chain followed by a plugin. On the other thing (which was a way to insert a UAD plug in the middle of hardware) I'm not sure your solution would be what I was hoping for because I'd still need to use up a second Out. Maybe there's no way to do that particular thing without using two outs. (And yes, no Luna for me until it supports external hardware. The Pipeline plug-in on Studio One makes this dead simple.) |
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Post by mjheck on Oct 28, 2021 20:43:28 GMT -6
I have done this when already sending stuff out round trip via Logic io plug in - most recently it has been a pair of channel strips in the unison slot and a Zulu as the outboard.
I liked it - especially if I needed more harmonic content. I personally liked the 1073, 737 and Vox Box strips best but that was likely because it was paired with the Zulu. I suspect any of them would provide the sought after character.
Since I wasn’t using the compressors I felt comfortable using it in dual mono which added some nice width.
This is not currently part of my practice, but it gave me what I was looking for when I was doing it.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 28, 2021 22:30:23 GMT -6
I have done this when already sending stuff out round trip via Logic io plug in - most recently it has been a pair of channel strips in the unison slot and a Zulu as the outboard. I liked it - especially if I needed more harmonic content. I personally liked the 1073, 737 and Vox Box strips best but that was likely because it was paired with the Zulu. I suspect any of them would provide the sought after character. Since I wasn’t using the compressors I felt comfortable using it in dual mono which added some nice width. This is not currently part of my practice, but it gave me what I was looking for when I was doing it. This sounds like the type of thing I'm talking about. I'm going to give this a try for sure. |
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Post by mjheck on Oct 29, 2021 12:29:25 GMT -6
If I remember correctly, I first tried this for a mobile solution on an Apollo Twin - I had the amazing Silver Bullet at home and I was hoping to be able to approximate the cascaded Neve > API setting I loved so much. I had two Zulus - one with my rack gear and one with the mobile. If I recall correctly, I was pretty impressed with how close it got.
I think what convinced me was a test where I first tried to have the software match the hardware. I then ran a different mix where I got it to where I wanted with the software, then tried to match it with the hardware. Not all, but a lot of my preference for the hardware may have been because that is what I dialed in first. When the situation was reversed, it certainly wasn't a night and day difference.
I still have all the stuff to do it - let me know if you come across any killer combos I should try.
JMH
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 29, 2021 14:05:36 GMT -6
At some point this weekend I'm going to experiment to see if I can get a UAD plug-in to work as an insert point on 500 series unit from my Cranborne 500 which I'm using for analog summing. If I can get a UAD plug into my analog summing chain I feel like I'll have stumbled on the holy grail of hybrid recording!
Thinking something like this to start nice and easy...
I usually run my vocal through a Chroma right before mix down. I've often considered swapping in an EQ color unit except that I love the Hitmaker 4000 I have in there now. So I'm going to try to see if I can insert the Trident EQ (that I seem to be the only person on earth who uses) on that. I don't know, but for me this feels like it could be game changing.
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Post by javamad on Oct 30, 2021 3:11:17 GMT -6
When I was doing analog summing (RND5060 and some hw compressors) I used to put some plugins in the return input pair.
Pultec, Shadow hills etc.
The trick to be able to hear what I was doing was to route that input back out again into a separate external mix input in the monitoring section of the 5060 and so listen to it by selecting with a button.
There were 2 disadvantages to this setup. Firstly the jump in timing (compared to the suming only mix) due to the extra round trip latency and secondly the fact that I needed those 2 extra outputs to be able to listen to it left me with 2 fewer for summing.
In the end I decided to use all 16 outputs for summing and I would do a separate “mastering” step in Logic.
I am now using Luna so I sold my stereo compressors and bought some great mic pres for on the way in.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 30, 2021 4:09:06 GMT -6
The trident McCartney bass setting is excellent .
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Oct 30, 2021 10:08:48 GMT -6
When I was doing analog summing (RND5060 and some hw compressors) I used to put some plugins in the return input pair. Pultec, Shadow hills etc. The trick to be able to hear what I was doing was to route that input back out again into a separate external mix input in the monitoring section of the 5060 and so listen to it by selecting with a button. There were 2 disadvantages to this setup. Firstly the jump in timing (compared to the suming only mix) due to the extra round trip latency and secondly the fact that I needed those 2 extra outputs to be able to listen to it left me with 2 fewer for summing. In the end I decided to use all 16 outputs for summing and I would do a separate “mastering” step in Logic. I am now using Luna so I sold my stereo compressors and bought some great mic pres for on the way in. Thankfully the Cranborne has two Aux Ins so I don't think I'll run into that problem. Hopefully. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 24, 2021 0:10:50 GMT -6
Well, there's an update here. After some experimentation I am happy to announce that this works and is, I think, pretty cool.
Basically what I did was to utilize the Apollo as a DSP effects processor, similar to how some folks are using it for live mixing. The main way that I wanted to use it is totally working which as an insert on my Cranborne 500ADAT. The reason I wanted to figure it out was because I'm using the 500ADAT as a summing box and sending it out to my mix bus in my DAW and mixing into that. I set up 4 busses in the Cranborne and mix into that.
Since the insert sits after the 500 unit that means I can do things like this. Drum bus into SB4001, UAD Unison Neve 1084 as insert for EQ, summed along with the other six channels into Silver Bullet and Bob's your uncle.
Yeah, yeah, I know... the signal leaves the pure analog world but by the time I'm mixing it's already left the analog world anyway. So whatever analog magic dust there is is gone already, right?
Anyway, it's really nice to be able to adjust EQ after compression on these 500 units. Until I have a few more racks of EQ, this seems like a pretty good solution. Plus it's fun.
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