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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 22, 2021 8:12:31 GMT -6
Right now, I have a Furman 8LX providing power, but I think I could do better. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 22, 2021 9:02:49 GMT -6
Most “power conditioners” are glorified extension cords. They’re really just rack mounted surge protectors. To get something more, like a line conditioner, you gotta spend a lot more (like $500+). So I wouldn’t spend big money. A normal Furman, or any other reputable brand, should be just fine.
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Post by Ned Ward on Oct 22, 2021 10:19:41 GMT -6
What problems are you trying to solve?
You could look at things like a Furman AR-1215 which regulates voltage, but a UPS that generates a clean sinewave power is probably a better bet. Also ensures if you're not on a laptop that in the case that you lose power, you can still save a session...
But again, no need to get a better "power conditioner." I'm sure Black Lion Audio is laughing all the way to the bank with their line of overpriced ones, same as Monster did.
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 22, 2021 11:43:55 GMT -6
I'm not looking to solve a problem as far as I can tell. I can't hear any noise through my system plugged into the Furman, so no issues there. Just wondering if it would make an audible difference to get something like a voltage regulator or a UPS. Or, is that something that just protects the gear, but has no audible benefits?
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Post by svart on Oct 22, 2021 14:04:20 GMT -6
I'm not looking to solve a problem as far as I can tell. I can't hear any noise through my system plugged into the Furman, so no issues there. Just wondering if it would make an audible difference to get something like a voltage regulator or a UPS. Or, is that something that just protects the gear, but has no audible benefits? UPS output square waves usually. Fine for computers. Not fine for audio gear. You can get "true sine" or "pure sine" UPS but they're $$$ and much more rare. |
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Post by narxist on Oct 22, 2021 14:13:12 GMT -6
I'm not looking to solve a problem as far as I can tell. I can't hear any noise through my system plugged into the Furman, so no issues there. Just wondering if it would make an audible difference to get something like a voltage regulator or a UPS. Or, is that something that just protects the gear, but has no audible benefits? UPS output square waves usually. Fine for computers. Not fine for audio gear. You can get "true sine" or "pure sine" UPS but they're $$$ and much more rare. What would you think of something like a Furman F1000-UPS, that uses a "simulated sine wave" (seems to be something like this -  )? |
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Post by svart on Oct 22, 2021 14:18:15 GMT -6
UPS output square waves usually. Fine for computers. Not fine for audio gear. You can get "true sine" or "pure sine" UPS but they're $$$ and much more rare. What would you think of something like a Furman F1000-UPS, that uses a "simulated sine wave" (seems to be something like this - )? We used to call those quasi-sine when I worked with them. Anyway, anything with hard transitions in voltage will cause harmonic spurs. I would avoid for anything audio. The "true sine" devices have much finer voltage transitions and then filter the outputs heavily, similar to how DACs work. |
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Post by stratboy on Oct 22, 2021 20:03:35 GMT -6
Check out the Furman P-1800 PFR. It has good protection. I’ve used it for many years. I can’t get into the debate about studio power (there are several folks here who are very knowledgeable about the topic), but if you think that putting a device between the wall and your system is beneficial, it has a good feature set for its price.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Oct 23, 2021 4:18:17 GMT -6
Don't waste your money
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 23, 2021 7:37:51 GMT -6
Thanks guys for all the input! It seems like it's unnecessary to go beyond what I already have, so I'll focus on other things. Thanks again!
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Post by Ned Ward on Oct 23, 2021 8:13:37 GMT -6
I'd look at it like this - what else could you buy for $500+ that would have a bigger impact on your studio?
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 23, 2021 9:42:40 GMT -6
I'd look at it like this - what else could you buy for $500+ that would have a bigger impact on your studio? A lot of different things actually lol! |
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Post by Ward on Oct 23, 2021 12:45:57 GMT -6
I'm not looking to solve a problem as far as I can tell. I can't hear any noise through my system plugged into the Furman, so no issues there. Just wondering if it would make an audible difference to get something like a voltage regulator or a UPS. Or, is that something that just protects the gear, but has no audible benefits? UPS output square waves usually. Fine for computers. Not fine for audio gear. You can get "true sine" or "pure sine" UPS but they're $$$ and much more rare. I'm looking for a UPS suitable for studio work that can keep the whole thing running for 2-4 hours of power outages. Finish a session and save it all. Enough juice to run a Mac Pro loaded, twin 52" LED screens, 3 Avid HDio's, a clock, 36 preamps, 12 or so comps, 3-5 EQs, an API 500-8 chassis, pair of Neumann KH120s, an Avid C12 board. And about 100 watts of LED lights. Any recommendations? |
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Post by drbill on Oct 23, 2021 19:18:31 GMT -6
As mentioned, most 1RU power distribution units are pretty much the same - Mediocre. But I'm a firm believer in delivering excellent power from the electrical panel, thru the walls, into quality outlets, via heavy duty power cables, and into quality power supplies for all my gear.
I'm committed enough that I'm thinking seriously about commissioning a high end unit to be made. 10 hospital grade outlets, quality internal HD bussing, 20 amps with 12GA power cable, 10 quality switches, 1 RU. Anyone else interested in this? What should it cost? Or perhaps better put - how much would you be willing to pay for one?
Power matters.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 14:46:58 GMT -6
UPS output square waves usually. Fine for computers. Not fine for audio gear. You can get "true sine" or "pure sine" UPS but they're $$$ and much more rare. I'm looking for a UPS suitable for studio work that can keep the whole thing running for 2-4 hours of power outages. Finish a session and save it all. Enough juice to run a Mac Pro loaded, twin 52" LED screens, 3 Avid HDio's, a clock, 36 preamps, 12 or so comps, 3-5 EQs, an API 500-8 chassis, pair of Neumann KH120s, an Avid C12 board. And about 100 watts of LED lights. Any recommendations? |
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 25, 2021 6:25:33 GMT -6
As mentioned, most 1RU power distribution units are pretty much the same - Mediocre. But I'm a firm believer in delivering excellent power from the electrical panel, thru the walls, into quality outlets, via heavy duty power cables, and into quality power supplies for all my gear. I'm committed enough that I'm thinking seriously about commissioning a high end unit to be made. 10 hospital grade outlets, quality internal HD bussing, 20 amps with 12GA power cable, 10 quality switches, 1 RU. Anyone else interested in this? What should it cost? Or perhaps better put - how much would you be willing to pay for one? Power matters. This sounds really interesting! I'd think somewhere around $2k? It's small, but the high-grade components would drive the pricing. |
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Post by yewtreemagic on Oct 25, 2021 10:15:12 GMT -6
Some months back I spent some time upgrading my mains cables & plugs (I'm in the UK), and I certainly noticed some changes.
The biggest improvement (and the first one I tried out) was in replacing my power amp mains cable with a DIY one, from the supplied 18AWG to thicker 14AWG gauge (this lowers mains impedance, for better current delivery), along with a better quality mains plug with significantly increased contact area and pressure (cf Hospital grade) for lower contact resistance, and also treated the contacts with DeOxit. I immediately noticed a tighter bass end, superior dynamics, improved depth & imaging.
Encouraged by this I moved onto upgrading most of my other mains cables with DIY 14AWG ones plus better quality plugs, all at comparatively low cost. The power amp remained the biggest improvement, but I did notice more audio detail after replacing my PC mains cable, such as previously unheard metallic details in some tracks, and hearing the separate reverbs more distinctly in other commercial mixes, and a smaller improvement in detail after upgrading the mains cable of my Lavry DA10 converter.
I also replaced my mains distribution boards and their cables/plugs (all un-switched, to avoid yet another layer of contact resistance), and treated them internally with DeOxit, noticing sweeter treble, deeper soundstage, and almost holographic imaging by the end of my DIY tweaking.
Along the way I did abandon one item - I bought a Tacima mains conditioner/distribution board (recommended in various places to 'clean' the mains and provide surge protection), but this immediately squashed the dynamics and lost detail, so I sent it back for a refund (apparently the series coils/chokes in surge suppression increase mains impedance and are therefore harmful to dynamics, while filter capacitances blur/smear transient response - this is essentially what I heard).
Martin
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 25, 2021 10:55:46 GMT -6
Some months back I spent some time upgrading my mains cables & plugs (I'm in the UK), and I certainly noticed some changes. The biggest improvement (and the first one I tried out) was in replacing my power amp mains cable with a DIY one, from the supplied 18AWG to thicker 14AWG gauge (this lowers mains impedance, for better current delivery), along with a better quality mains plug with significantly increased contact area and pressure (cf Hospital grade) for lower contact resistance, and also treated the contacts with DeOxit. I immediately noticed a tighter bass end, superior dynamics, improved depth & imaging. Encouraged by this I moved onto upgrading most of my other mains cables with DIY 14AWG ones plus better quality plugs, all at comparatively low cost. The power amp remained the biggest improvement, but I did notice more audio detail after replacing my PC mains cable, such as previously unheard metallic details in some tracks, and hearing the separate reverbs more distinctly in other commercial mixes, and a smaller improvement in detail after upgrading the mains cable of my Lavry DA10 converter. I also replaced my mains distribution boards and their cables/plugs (all un-switched, to avoid yet another layer of contact resistance), and treated them internally with DeOxit, noticing sweeter treble, deeper soundstage, and almost holographic imaging by the end of my DIY tweaking. Along the way I did abandon one item - I bought a Tacima mains conditioner/distribution board (recommended in various places to 'clean' the mains and provide surge protection), but this immediately squashed the dynamics and lost detail, so I sent it back for a refund (apparently the series coils/chokes in surge suppression increase mains impedance and are therefore harmful to dynamics, while filter capacitances blur/smear transient response - this is essentially what I heard). Martin Did you make the cables yourself, or find them somewhere else? I'm interested in this, but don't have the skills to make cables myself. Also, what mains distribution boards are you using? |
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Post by yewtreemagic on Oct 25, 2021 15:34:20 GMT -6
I made up all the cables myself - they were a little fiddly, as the chunky mains cable is about 10mm diameter, but thankfully the mains plugs I bought were designed for such cables, so they could be clamped in securely for maximum safety. You really need to be sure what you're doing with mains cables though, as they can be potentially lethal. As for the distribution boards, I bought a relatively low cost one from the same specialist company, and once again I opted for the low cost DIY approach and wired the cable & plug for the distribution board myself. However, as I suspected from the photo, the dis board was a fairly standard device that was also stocked by Amazon, although once again I treated the contacts inside with DeOxit. There are loads of specialist hi-fi companies that will charge you an arm and a leg for such products (especially if you opt for exotic plating on the pins of the mains plug, such as silver, gold, rhodium etc., and particularly if you choose the ones hand-assembled by dusky maidens at midnight during a full moon), but I was primarily interested in basic engineering - thicker copper wires, greater contact area, firmer pressure and so on. This is the first DIY power cable one I bought for my UK power amp - at a bargain £10 I felt I had nothing to lose, and the results encouraged me to continue: www.mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-diy-mains-lead-set-2/This is the distribution board I bought from the same company: www.mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-20-diy-mains-extension-block/The next step up would probably be a more robust industrial distribution board (aluminium alloy rackmount), but once again this needn't be expensive - here's something suitable from Amazon UK: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000JEIHGG/?coliid=I11U5ZKB2QL52J&colid=1QTQQTLAXAWON&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_itCheap as chips, but to me the improvements spoke for themselves! And as for 'hospital grade', apparently this mostly means 'increased blade tension' to prevent accidental unplugging, so once again you don't necessarily need to pay a lot more. Martin |
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 25, 2021 19:48:56 GMT -6
I made up all the cables myself - they were a little fiddly, as the chunky mains cable is about 10mm diameter, but thankfully the mains plugs I bought were designed for such cables, so they could be clamped in securely for maximum safety. You really need to be sure what you're doing with mains cables though, as they can be potentially lethal. As for the distribution boards, I bought a relatively low cost one from the same specialist company, and once again I opted for the low cost DIY approach and wired the cable & plug for the distribution board myself. However, as I suspected from the photo, the dis board was a fairly standard device that was also stocked by Amazon, although once again I treated the contacts inside with DeOxit. There are loads of specialist hi-fi companies that will charge you an arm and a leg for such products (especially if you opt for exotic plating on the pins of the mains plug, such as silver, gold, rhodium etc., and particularly if you choose the ones hand-assembled by dusky maidens at midnight during a full moon), but I was primarily interested in basic engineering - thicker copper wires, greater contact area, firmer pressure and so on. This is the first DIY power cable one I bought for my UK power amp - at a bargain £10 I felt I had nothing to lose, and the results encouraged me to continue: www.mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-diy-mains-lead-set-2/This is the distribution board I bought from the same company: www.mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-20-diy-mains-extension-block/The next step up would probably be a more robust industrial distribution board (aluminium alloy rackmount), but once again this needn't be expensive - here's something suitable from Amazon UK: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000JEIHGG/?coliid=I11U5ZKB2QL52J&colid=1QTQQTLAXAWON&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_itCheap as chips, but to me the improvements spoke for themselves! And as for 'hospital grade', apparently this mostly means 'increased blade tension' to prevent accidental unplugging, so once again you don't necessarily need to pay a lot more. Martin Thank you for all that...unfortunately I'm in the US, so I might have to find something similar over here. On top of that, I don't have the skills to do this myself, so I'd have to have it done for me. Thanks for all the info though, I do plan to look into it. Maybe someone here who's in the US can do this or knows someone who can? |
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 25, 2021 20:14:38 GMT -6
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Post by yewtreemagic on Oct 25, 2021 22:00:48 GMT -6
Yep, DeOxit D5 is the correct spray to use - just a tiny spray will do the job (my can is still going strong after many years). The hospital grade cord is a chunky 14AWG (same as mine), the whole assembly carries the 'green dot' certification indicating a more robust build overall, so it ought to be as good as mine. At $12.27 you won't be taking much of a gamble anyway! Just buy one, give it a quick spray and then use it to replace your power amp cable (the most critical in my experience, since this is likely to be the item in your studio that draws the most instantaneous current). If you can hear an improvement then carry on replacing various other critical mains cables in your audio chain like I did - you don't have to enter the weird upper echelons of the hi-fi world or sign your credit card over to the devil to make progress  Oh, and this distribution board from the same supplier seems quite good - 14AWG cable and no extraneous surge protection circuitry: www.cablewholesale.com/products/power-products/surge-protectors/product-51w2-32106.php Worth a try anyway! Martin |
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 26, 2021 6:15:03 GMT -6
Yep, DeOxit D5 is the correct spray to use - just a tiny spray will do the job (my can is still going strong after many years). The hospital grade cord is a chunky 14AWG (same as mine), the whole assembly carries the 'green dot' certification indicating a more robust build overall, so it ought to be as good as mine. At $12.27 you won't be taking much of a gamble anyway! Just buy one, give it a quick spray and then use it to replace your power amp cable (the most critical in my experience, since this is likely to be the item in your studio that draws the most instantaneous current). If you can hear an improvement then carry on replacing various other critical mains cables in your audio chain like I did - you don't have to enter the weird upper echelons of the hi-fi world or sign your credit card over to the devil to make progress Oh, and this distribution board from the same supplier seems quite good - 14AWG cable and no extraneous surge protection circuitry: www.cablewholesale.com/products/power-products/surge-protectors/product-51w2-32106.php Worth a try anyway! Martin Awesome, the website isn't working for me right now for some reason, but I'll definitely check it out! Certainly worth a try! |
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