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Post by popmann on May 4, 2014 21:22:25 GMT -6
Preamp>Y cable....
Leg 1 of the Y> into cue mixer
Leg 2 of the Y> into converter
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Post by popmann on May 4, 2014 21:23:50 GMT -6
And yes--you obviously need the stereo cue also feeding the line mixer....
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2014 21:26:01 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on May 4, 2014 21:28:50 GMT -6
Preamp>Y cable.... Leg 1 of the Y> into cue mixer Leg 2 of the Y> into converter does this cause any pre output issues or impedance issues? |
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Post by popmann on May 4, 2014 21:31:29 GMT -6
Yes, that's the Y cable....when I was thinking of going this route, I talked to Dan Kennedy, who I trust knows audio electronics more than me....and the answer was in short--no, unless the gear being hooked up is REALLY old, there should be no issue driving two lines. Of course, then I had to test it....with and without the Y hooked up....blind....no--I couldn't hear any difference.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2014 21:42:50 GMT -6
Well shit fire...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 5, 2014 8:51:12 GMT -6
Headphone polarity is so stupid obvious when you hear the difference that I rarely think of mentioning it.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on May 5, 2014 13:01:20 GMT -6
Well I must be the stupidest bastard who ever walked cause I don't have a clue what you guys are talking about with headphone polarity. Can someone school me on this please? I'm probably doing seething wrong and don't even know it. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 5, 2014 13:12:48 GMT -6
If the sound of your voice from the phones is out of phase with the actual sound of your voice, it can be pretty nasty.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 6, 2014 6:25:22 GMT -6
So I would assume, you just flip the phase back and forth and just see what sounds the best in the phones, right? I had something in my chain a while back that must have been out of phase because when I flipped the phase, it sounded better in my phones...I never considered it might have been the headphones, though.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 6, 2014 10:09:19 GMT -6
No transducer is symmetrical and our hearing is probably not symmetrical but there is no way to test it without symmetrical transducers. I was speaking of the vocal feed but polarity does change the sound of asymmetrical events such as brass instruments.
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Post by wiz on May 6, 2014 16:06:17 GMT -6
So I would assume, you just flip the phase back and forth and just see what sounds the best in the phones, right? I had something in my chain a while back that must have been out of phase because when I flipped the phase, it sounded better in my phones...I never considered it might have been the headphones, though. Hey John thats exactly all you need to do. Put your cans on, sing into mic, flip phase, sing into mic... if you are affected by it, you will hear it straight away. Your voice will sound thinner, one way compared to the other. You won't hear it, when micing an acoustic guitar or snare etc, you will on your voice. It was once explained to me, as people who are "jaw bone" singers suffer from it mostly. You would also hear it, if you sang into the front of a figure 8 mic, and then walked around and sang into the other side, one will sound fuller than the other, because the polarity is reversed one side of the mic to the other. cheers Wiz PS if you can't hear any difference on your voice, move along nothing to see here..... 8) |
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Post by formatcyes on May 6, 2014 16:36:25 GMT -6
Wow learning a lot for this thread thanks guy's.
The more I know the more I realise how much I don't know.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 6, 2014 21:17:36 GMT -6
This is a continuing off topic, but isn't there some plug that adjusts things that aren't completely out of phase?
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Post by matt on May 6, 2014 21:21:35 GMT -6
This is a continuing off topic, but isn't there some plug that adjusts things that aren't completely out of phase? Yes: UAD Little Labs IBP |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 6, 2014 22:08:48 GMT -6
There are several including waves and SSL released one today. The waves has quite a bit of latency. I always just slid the tracks. That said, it doesn't always help.
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Post by wiz on May 6, 2014 23:38:21 GMT -6
when dealing with phase, usually for me its in one of two scenarios... generally.
Drums
Multi mic guitar amps.
With drums, I take care of it when positioning the mics in the recording phase. I do this initially by physically measuring, perhaps with a cord, or mic cable. Then I do it visually and aurally at the same time, by recording say the snare, and listening, flipping phase on the snare track
comapred to the overheads tracks, and also then I fine tune, by looking at those three waveforms in the DAW.
On guitar amps I do the same thing.
I have tried some of those plug ins, and just found, in the two instances I sited above, its better to do it at the time of tracking, takes me more time to write it down, than actually do it I reckon 8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by lolo on May 7, 2014 0:57:46 GMT -6
So I would assume, you just flip the phase back and forth and just see what sounds the best in the phones, right? I had something in my chain a while back that must have been out of phase because when I flipped the phase, it sounded better in my phones...I never considered it might have been the headphones, though. Hey John thats exactly all you need to do. Put your cans on, sing into mic, flip phase, sing into mic... if you are affected by it, you will hear it straight away. Your voice will sound thinner, one way compared to the other. You won't hear it, when micing an acoustic guitar or snare etc, you will on your voice. It was once explained to me, as people who are "jaw bone" singers suffer from it mostly. You would also hear it, if you sang into the front of a figure 8 mic, and then walked around and sang into the other side, one will sound fuller than the other, because the polarity is reversed one side of the mic to the other. cheers Wiz PS if you can't hear any difference on your voice, move along nothing to see here..... 8) Wiz are you referring to flipping the phase on the pre? |
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Post by wiz on May 7, 2014 1:39:49 GMT -6
You can flip phase anywhere in the path, I do it on the preamp.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by dandeurloo on May 8, 2014 22:45:27 GMT -6
Hmmm...interesting. I can't particularly hear a latency, but maybe I do perceive it...I've often kind've felt a little disconnect - like, it's just not the same as playing it with the headphones off. Is that what I'm perceiving? I think if you plugged straight into even a junky little mackie or Yamaha mixer you would notice the lack of latency. I found this when I was testing a mic that I was building after a long session. I noticed right away the true zero latency. Makes me want that all the time. I think "real/legit" players or singers would get the most out of it. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 9, 2014 7:40:26 GMT -6
I have to be honest - I set my little Behringer mixer up like Popmann mentioned with the Y cable...and I honestly can't really hear a difference...So - I'm getting 1.8 ms of latency when I monitor direct from the Symphony? I'm just not hearing a big difference...Does the fact that I only use 44 and 48 have something to do with that?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on May 9, 2014 9:51:21 GMT -6
You should hear more difference in the pitch printed to disk than timing. Any discernible difference there?
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Post by popmann on May 9, 2014 10:06:46 GMT -6
I don't know what you're expecting to hear that's different. Its about results...mostly how quickly they get there. It's not something you're going to "hear" when you plug it in.
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Post by tonycamphd on May 9, 2014 10:47:29 GMT -6
You should hear more difference in the pitch printed to disk than timing. Any discernible difference there? Yup, but even so, for me, i feel wholly different as a player with latency present in my cue vs 0 latency, i can still pull it off, but the former pins an un natural disconnect to the vibe that is palpable and disconcerting to me.. in addition to the pitch swirling. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 9, 2014 14:19:14 GMT -6
I've used a Mackie with a mike splitter to the "real" preamp.
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