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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 16, 2021 4:38:25 GMT -6
I’m curious if anyone has tried the Phædrus Audio AC701 or has any thoughts on them. I’ve been debating commissioning a custom M269 build and I’m curious if anyone has experience with one of these tubes. Per their website they are a direct replacement for the original AC701. See the link below. www.phaedrus-audio.com/AC701%20electronic%20tube.htmThey also make a VF14 replacement. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 16, 2021 9:46:25 GMT -6
Honestly, it was pretty hard for me to get past this Vincent : Neumann seemed to have an uncanny knack of picking losers when it came to amplifier tubes. IMO, the AC701 and VF14M are some of the most iconic sounding tubes ever made. Being discontinued or hoarded decades down the road doesn't make Neumann stupid for choosing them. The AC701 might be (IMO) even more important than the VF in the mics that use it. If it were me, and depending on the use and expense of the mic - I'd got the distance and get a real AC701. They seem to have that magic sparkle dust in the Neumann's I've used that utilize that tube. As far as Phaedrus - they bemoan the high price of tubes, then charge BOOCOO bucks for a simple solid state replacement?  |
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Post by Chad on Sept 16, 2021 10:32:28 GMT -6
I reached out to the guys at Phaedrus around 2018 or 2019, and I encouraged them to make an EF12 electronic tube for people using Flea 47's (like myself) and other mics that use that tube.
We went back & forth a few times, and then they let me know they were going to release their electronic EF14M, and that it would the same as my EF12, but I would have to change two wires in my Flea 47. I thought to myself, "Uh, you made a tube and are asking me to convert my mic to fit YOUR tube. No thank you. Not going to touch my mic."
That's my story about those electronic tubes. I like the guys at Phaedrus, but I was disappointed that their response to my request for an electronic EF12 replacement was a tube that required the mic to be modified. For my particular workflow, this would mean no going backwards and doing comparisons, or choosing a vintage metal tube over their electronic tube in certain situations, and vice versa.
PS: I did end up acquiring 4 completely NOS EF12K Telefunken variety from a reputable dealer on the East Coast (USA) around that same time, so I'm set on Flea 47 tubes for my lifetime +.
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 16, 2021 11:34:36 GMT -6
Honestly, it was pretty hard for me to get past this Vincent : Neumann seemed to have an uncanny knack of picking losers when it came to amplifier tubes. IMO, the AC701 and VF14M are some of the most iconic sounding tubes ever made. Being discontinued or hoarded decades down the road doesn't make Neumann stupid for choosing them. The AC701 might be (IMO) even more important than the VF in the mics that use it. If it were me, and depending on the use and expense of the mic - I'd got the distance and get a real AC701. They seem to have that magic sparkle dust in the Neumann's I've used that utilize that tube. As far as Phaedrus - they bemoan the high price of tubes, then charge BOOCOO bucks for a simple solid state replacement? Yeah, they aren't cheap. Not AC701 crazy though. Was just curious if anyone had used them. |
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Sept 16, 2021 12:15:14 GMT -6
I have two in a DIY M49b pair with Neumann capsules. I can't compare to anything. The only M49 I compared it to was a weird sounding one, maybe with an M7 in it. I find them quite bright, which surprised me. Tons of bottom end too.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 16, 2021 12:21:55 GMT -6
These things under one name or another for years. Now while not cheap, they are a bargain next to vintage tubes yet you have to note the degree of traction in the market. This is telling most have not been impressed!
Let’s me put this as simply as I can, if they nailed it do you think say Neumann or Bock/ UA wouldn’t have made them an offer even a nut case couldn’t refuse? Think about it for just a minute we could replace the old tubes with some solid state parts right on the PCB, no worry of having to Find/ Test / replace tubes!
If it really worked they would be millionaires.
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 16, 2021 12:59:08 GMT -6
These things under one name or another for years. Now while not cheap, they are a bargain next to vintage tubes yet you have to note the degree of traction in the market. This is telling most have not been impressed! Let’s me put this as simply as I can, if they nailed it do you think say Neumann or Bock/ UA wouldn’t have made them an offer even a nut case couldn’t refuse? Think about it for just a minute we could replace the old tubes with some solid state parts right on the PCB, no worry of having to Find/ Test / replace tubes! If it really worked they would be millionaires. Ha ha ha. Ok. Ok. I'll let it go. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 16, 2021 14:28:15 GMT -6
Maybe we need to buy SAVART one of these and find docs on the Decca circuit? He can then comp all his funded him build a great Ac701 solid state alternative and retire !
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Post by Chad on Sept 16, 2021 14:33:04 GMT -6
My post wasn't saying they don't work... I'm just sharing my experience with letting the Phaedrus guys know they could help some people and tap a market if they would look into EF12's. They listened (sort of), and it's the "sort of" part that disappointed me. I really would have bought one if I could just pop it into my Flea 47 and test it out. Their online samples of their VF14 replacement intrigued me which is why I reached out to them in the first place about doing an EF12.
Anyway... Vincent, I don't think this was a waste of time at all to bring up this discussion. :-)
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Sept 16, 2021 18:45:57 GMT -6
I reached out to the guys at Phaedrus around 2018 or 2019, and I encouraged them to make an EF12 electronic tube for people using Flea 47's (like myself) and other mics that use that tube. We went back & forth a few times, and then they let me know they were going to release their electronic EF14M, and that it would the same as my EF12, but I would have to change two wires in my Flea 47. I thought to myself, "Uh, you made a tube and are asking me to convert my mic to fit YOUR tube. No thank you. Not going to touch my mic." That's my story about those electronic tubes. I like the guys at Phaedrus, but I was disappointed that their response to my request for an electronic EF12 replacement was a tube that required the mic to be modified. For my particular workflow, this would mean no going backwards and doing comparisons, or choosing a vintage metal tube over their electronic tube in certain situations, and vice versa. PS: I did end up acquiring 4 completely NOS EF12K Telefunken variety from a reputable dealer on the East Coast (USA) around that same time, so I'm set on Flea 47 tubes for my lifetime +. I have a hard time seeing them doing an EF12K. Putting all that work into an alternative of an alternative to the VF14. It is still easy enough to find microphone grade EF12k and it seems thats what you have done  . Andre Grosser can probably sort out a tested EF12k. He is an increadibly nice person as well. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 16, 2021 19:08:34 GMT -6
One last thought on AC701 based mics :
Some of the most special, magical mics in Neumann's line (and others lines as well) rely on one constant : the AC701.
The M50, M49, KM53, KM54, M269C...... (and others)
Wildly different designs and applications - and the one constant? AC701.
That's enough for me. The meat may be in the capsule, but the magic is in the AC701!!!!!
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Post by Chad on Sept 17, 2021 7:44:10 GMT -6
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 17, 2021 8:34:48 GMT -6
My post wasn't saying they don't work... I'm just sharing my experience with letting the Phaedrus guys know they could help some people and tap a market if they would look into EF12's. They listened (sort of), and it's the "sort of" part that disappointed me. I really would have bought one if I could just pop it into my Flea 47 and test it out. Their online samples of their VF14 replacement intrigued me which is why I reached out to them in the first place about doing an EF12. Anyway... Vincent, I don't think this was a waste of time at all to bring up this discussion. :-) Honestly, I just never heard them talked about so I was curious. I trust ericn. He's been steering me in the right direction for a while now, and I haven't been disappointed in his recommendations yet. drbill ain't no slouch either.  |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Sept 17, 2021 8:37:06 GMT -6
WOW okay, last one i brought was about 4 years ago for $200. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 17, 2021 8:38:24 GMT -6
One last thought on AC701 based mics : Some of the most special, magical mics in Neumann's line (and others lines as well) rely on one constant : the AC701. The M50, M49, KM53, KM54, M269C...... (and others) Wildly different designs and applications - and the one constant? AC701. That's enough for me. The meat may be in the capsule, but the magic is in the AC701!!!!! If someone could revive only one tube, it should be the AC701K. It was the magic in so many mics. |
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Post by Chad on Sept 17, 2021 9:15:18 GMT -6
One last thought on AC701 based mics : Some of the most special, magical mics in Neumann's line (and others lines as well) rely on one constant : the AC701. The M50, M49, KM53, KM54, M269C...... (and others) Wildly different designs and applications - and the one constant? AC701. That's enough for me. The meat may be in the capsule, but the magic is in the AC701!!!!! If someone could revive only one tube, it should be the AC701K. It was the magic in so many mics. Do you think this is possible today, or is it barricaded by availability of materials, knowledge of and cost of production (could anyone actually be able to profit?), and environmental laws? |
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Post by dreamsambas on Sept 17, 2021 9:56:22 GMT -6
It's certainly possible, with the tooling and materials available today.
Whether it's commercially viable is another matter.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 17, 2021 10:07:00 GMT -6
If someone could revive only one tube, it should be the AC701K. It was the magic in so many mics. Do you think this is possible today, or is it barricaded by availability of materials, knowledge of and cost of production (could anyone actually be able to profit?), and environmental laws? It’s really the investment costs. |
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Post by mcirish on Sept 17, 2021 10:18:25 GMT -6
I checked out the link. Very interesting. On one side, I think this is a great idea. To make a solid state circuit that matches the exact behavior of the original tube. On the other hand... I can't count the number of times I've been disappointed by modeled circuits. Not exactly the same but I just recall being very much in to the modeled guitar amps and never being able to dial in the perfect setting that made me happy. Skip forward a few years and I picked up a Deluxe Reverb (original), turned it up to 5 and said "wow, that's it". No tweaking knobs. it just sounds right. The AC701 sounds just right. Can any emulation of it ever do it justice?
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Post by vocals07 on Jul 25, 2023 7:30:08 GMT -6
Honestly, it was pretty hard for me to get past this Vincent : Neumann seemed to have an uncanny knack of picking losers when it came to amplifier tubes. IMO, the AC701 and VF14M are some of the most iconic sounding tubes ever made. Being discontinued or hoarded decades down the road doesn't make Neumann stupid for choosing them. The AC701 might be (IMO) even more important than the VF in the mics that use it. If it were me, and depending on the use and expense of the mic - I'd got the distance and get a real AC701. They seem to have that magic sparkle dust in the Neumann's I've used that utilize that tube. As far as Phaedrus - they bemoan the high price of tubes, then charge BOOCOO bucks for a simple solid state replacement? Yeah, they aren't cheap. Not AC701 crazy though. Was just curious if anyone had used them. |
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Post by vocals07 on Jul 25, 2023 7:31:33 GMT -6
I’m curious if anyone has tried the Phædrus Audio AC701 or has any thoughts on them. I’ve been debating commissioning a custom M269 build and I’m curious if anyone has experience with one of these tubes. Per their website they are a direct replacement for the original AC701. See the link below. www.phaedrus-audio.com/AC701%20electronic%20tube.htmThey also make a VF14 replacement. I used the Phaedrus ac701 two times in my RMS49, I also had the real thing in there. Their real thing was a tad bit richer but a little less gain. Other than that the Phaedrus ac701 was spot on |
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Post by Ward on Jul 25, 2023 7:36:33 GMT -6
There are still plenty of new in box mint condition AC701 and 6s6b tubes available if you know where to look, and they are relatively inexpensive!
Where? Why, in Ukraine and the former Yugoslavian countries.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 25, 2023 8:00:15 GMT -6
There are still plenty of new in box mint condition AC701 and 6s6b tubes available if you know where to look, and they are relatively inexpensive! Where? Why, in Ukraine and the former Yugoslavian countries. I tried for a while to track down an AC701K from someone reputable, but just didn't have any luck. I had already asked FleA, but they couldn't get one either. I finally just let it go. |
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Post by Ward on Jul 25, 2023 8:04:21 GMT -6
There are still plenty of new in box mint condition AC701 and 6s6b tubes available if you know where to look, and they are relatively inexpensive! Where? Why, in Ukraine and the former Yugoslavian countries. I tried for a while to track down an AC701K from someone reputable, but just didn't have any luck. I had already asked FleA, but they couldn't get one either. I finally just let it go. Did you ask our friend Christian? bowie |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 25, 2023 8:06:17 GMT -6
I tried for a while to track down an AC701K from someone reputable, but just didn't have any luck. I had already asked FleA, but they couldn't get one either. I finally just let it go. Did you ask our friend Christian? bowie Christian advised that he will only provide AC701Ks to save existing vintage microphones, and with his installation. A very smart and respectable position. |
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. Andre Grosser can probably sort out a tested EF12k. He is an increadibly nice person as well.
