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Post by crillemannen on Sept 13, 2022 12:36:54 GMT -6
Here is a quick demonstration of the (2) different techniques. The first is the more modern technique which Jonas Kaufmann is a master. The second is the more old school you would hear Mario Lanza or Beniamino Gigli use. Remember, I'm a lyric tenor, not a dramatic tenor. I just recorded this quickly in my warehouse. My phone is approx. 10ft away. View AttachmentI don't agree. The first one sounds fuller and good, the second sounds a bit pop inspired and lighter. You can also hear the larynx being higher in the second clip. If you watch Correlli his larynx was down in his chest haha! Dark but with a clear ping, full of overtones. Dark is good, choking is not with an over exaggerated yawn feeling ala Kaufmann.
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Post by drbill on Sept 13, 2022 13:10:34 GMT -6
Haha!! Honestly, the last thing I expected when I logged into RGO this morning was a knockdown dragout on opera singing and styles.! LOL. By all means, carry oooooooooooon!!
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Post by chessparov on Sept 13, 2022 13:37:17 GMT -6
Snoop Dog is training for opera. Specifically Poochini. We're talking leader of the pack-all you homies. Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 13, 2022 13:50:22 GMT -6
Here is a quick demonstration of the (2) different techniques. The first is the more modern technique which Jonas Kaufmann is a master. The second is the more old school you would hear Mario Lanza or Beniamino Gigli use. Remember, I'm a lyric tenor, not a dramatic tenor. I just recorded this quickly in my warehouse. My phone is approx. 10ft away. View AttachmentI don't agree. The first one sounds fuller and good, the second sounds a bit pop inspired and lighter. You can also hear the larynx being higher in the second clip. If you watch Correlli his larynx was down in his chest haha! Dark but with a clear ping, full of overtones. Dark is good, choking is not with an over exaggerated yawn feeling ala Kaufmann. Hey Crille, I'll admit that first clip is totally in the vein of Corelli or Del Monaco and was taught to me by a teacher of that style. I also think your description of Kaufmann's style being a bit of an exaggeration isn't that far off and is often his biggest criticism. As for the second clip; I think it sounds pop influenced, because we have become more accustomed to those singing in the Melocchi style. The Melocchi method was created in response to those who wanted to sound like Enrico Caruso. When you listen to singers who predate that style or even some of their contemporaries; Gigli, Bjorling, Schipa you'll hear it resembles more of my old school sample. The larynx certainly doesn't lower as much, but it is relaxed. Even Caruso himself seemed to change gears depending on the role he was singing. It as you said is all a matter of taste. Its funny, Francesco Tamango was the big tenor before Caruso. Caruso was often criticized for having a smaller voice than Tamango, whose voice was described as a canon that shook the chandelier. If you go listen Tamango however his voice is extremely bright and far less robust than you would expect of the tenor whose voice Verdi's "Otello" was written for. Anyway, I'm kind of enjoying this conversation. I love talking shop.
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 13, 2022 14:06:08 GMT -6
Actually Tamango and Del Monaco are two great examples of the old school vs new school; bright and forward vs open throat. These tenors are Italian dramatic tenors and would be considered slightly lighter voiced than the heldentenors above.
Francesco Tamango 1903:
Mario Del Monaco:
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Post by drbill on Sept 13, 2022 15:27:07 GMT -6
For our next choice of unlikely topic of discussion, I'd like to suggest drop frame vs. non drop, and the proper application of either. Or perhaps what happens when you stripe code on an analog deck with the deck not sync'd and resolved to black burst. OK? OK,,,,but for now - proper timbre for operatic tenors!!
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 13, 2022 15:31:20 GMT -6
Why does the male singer keep putting his right arm up and his hand near his ear, but not touching his ear? It is so he can hear himself over the orchestra and not push. When you are on a stage there is more separation between you and the orchestra and you get kick back from the hall. In the middle of the orchestra like that it can be hard to hear yourself. I do this a lot myself. How interesting! As a pop rock singer I'm used to having monitors or IEM's. I guess opera singers don't have monitoring systems.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Sept 13, 2022 16:05:51 GMT -6
A lot of the changes in Opera singers comes down to 2 things. First there are only a handful who can pay the bills without dipping heavily into more popular genres.
The Second is this, other than a hand full of modern halls sound great without reinforcement. Modern concert halls are either designed to work with a PA, without or as a hybrid and really suck. The last halls I had any involvement with the Oveture Center in Madison has to halls for this very reason, as does the Kauffman Center down the Street from me. Even the Halls designed to work with a PA are designed with a generic idea of what the PA will do. What kind of research goes into the choice of PA in a hall designed by one of the top modern architects? The consultant has him pick one from a bunch of pictures! True story! A modern line array is pretty damn predictable and if you add a couple of Good old BSS digital boxes it can adjust itself to temp and humidity changes. The problem is most of these reinforcement systems are a hodgepodge of different speakers for fills based strictly on radiating pattern with no one looking at the phase response. Funny enough one of the Structual guys on the Kauffman center got the lesson in acoustic summing and comb filtering at another venue 3 blocks from me when I had him sit in a seat that I knew would show that Adamson and Apogee don’t play nice with each other.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 13, 2022 16:11:40 GMT -6
Uhh.. anyone have anything more to say about the mics?
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Post by Hudsonic on Sept 15, 2022 14:47:59 GMT -6
Why is this so off topic?
Anyone knows that there is not consensus when discussing singers.
Take it to the Opera News web board.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Sept 15, 2022 15:24:40 GMT -6
Why is this so off topic? Anyone knows that there is not consensus when discussing singers. Take it to the Opera News web board. Nah I’ll just see if anybody form the Lyric Opera ( auto correct keeps trying to sub Oprah) shows up at the bar tonight😁
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 15, 2022 18:57:16 GMT -6
Why is this so off topic? Anyone knows that there is not consensus when discussing singers. Take it to the Opera News web board. I have two passions; singing and recording. I suddenly found myself being able to talk about both at the same time, and I couldn’t help myself. He he.
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