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Post by samuelpepys on Jul 31, 2021 17:42:50 GMT -6
Hi! In this clip, the Sony guys are using two m49 type microphones, but they both feature XLR connections. Any idea of what these microphones might be? Anyone recognise them? They kind of look a bit too worn to be clones, but at the same time, I cannot think of any other alternative. Also, pay no regard to the absolutely ridiculous mic porn in the very beginning of this video.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 31, 2021 18:21:39 GMT -6
Could be M49s modified with a regular tube mic cable. Could be TLM 49s using yoke mounts.
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Post by yotonic on Jul 31, 2021 19:02:41 GMT -6
Those are SM7s in a fake shell....
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Post by chessparov on Jul 31, 2021 19:18:24 GMT -6
Maybe Alctrons? Chris
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Post by m03 on Jul 31, 2021 23:50:03 GMT -6
Didn't Decca (and possibly others) convert M49s to FET + cardioid-only + XLR back in the ~1980s. These could be recipients of such modifications.
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 1, 2021 9:33:43 GMT -6
Didn't Decca (and possibly others) convert M49s to FET + cardioid-only + XLR back in the ~1980s. These could be recipients of such modifications. Ah, that must be the answer then! There's just no way these are TLM mics or anything other than either the real thing or Bock level clones when they are used for such a high budget affair. Considering in that other room, they had five perfectly matching U47's that I'm betting my right hand on being THE most well kept U47's on the planet, that means that the mic budget was in principle whatever amount of money the Sony coorporation has in total. But yeah, that sounds like something they'd do in the 80's for these kinds of applications, so I think you solved it. Thanks
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Post by chessparov on Aug 1, 2021 14:29:43 GMT -6
Bock/Heiserman's/FLEA's and/or some selected TLM's (ala 170) would have been fine and dandy too IMHO. Wait! Through my microscope looking closer, I can just barely make out "W_er_ Audio" on the bottom of that photo! Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 1, 2021 17:49:00 GMT -6
Didn't Decca (and possibly others) convert M49s to FET + cardioid-only + XLR back in the ~1980s. These could be recipients of such modifications. Yes for better or worst Decca did mod the hell of a bunch of M49’s not sure if they used XLR though it would have been the logical thing to do. That probably means they didn’t.
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 1, 2021 19:31:56 GMT -6
Didn't Decca (and possibly others) convert M49s to FET + cardioid-only + XLR back in the ~1980s. These could be recipients of such modifications. Yes for better or worst Decca did mod the hell of a bunch of M49’s not sure if they used XLR though it would have been the logical thing to do. That probably means they didn’t. I'm pretty sure that the Decca m49 FET mics didn't have XLR connections. This is only from seeing three of the Decca FET m49 mics for sale, and all three had original connections. However, this was a much needed mod for not just Decca, but really everyone who dealt with high budget orchestral sessions where a tube failing or becoming noisy mid performance might delay the entire project and cost someone their job. I'm 100% sure that others did the same to stay ahead and still be able to use their old microphones without having to deal with inferior tube technology that could crap out at any moment in a 60k a day recording situation with only two days to record an entire opera.
When looking through their eyes, it would almost be foolish to not convert them to FET in the circumstances they were used and considering that in the 80's, the good tubes fit for microphone use were largely used up already (today they are close to non existent, even if you have a limitless budget), and it probably just made the sound engineers sleep a lot better at night, hehe.
I believe the mods they did made the mics sound exactly like they did with the AC701k, but with FET tech. Would be interesting to see exactly what they did, but they had a bigger budget and more expertise available to mod their m49's than some microphone manufactorers today have for developing and manufacturing entire microphone models, so I'm sure they managed to reach their goal of authentically recreating the AC701k sound.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 1, 2021 20:08:17 GMT -6
Yes for better or worst Decca did mod the hell of a bunch of M49’s not sure if they used XLR though it would have been the logical thing to do. That probably means they didn’t. I'm pretty sure that the Decca m49 FET mics didn't have XLR connections. This is only from seeing three of the Decca FET m49 mics for sale, and all three had original connections. However, this was a much needed mod for not just Decca, but really everyone who dealt with high budget orchestral sessions where a tube failing or becoming noisy mid performance might delay the entire project and cost someone their job. I'm 100% sure that others did the same to stay ahead and still be able to use their old microphones without having to deal with inferior tube technology that could crap out at any moment in a 60k a day recording situation with only two days to record an entire opera.
When looking through their eyes, it would almost be foolish to not convert them to FET in the circumstances they were used and considering that in the 80's, the good tubes fit for microphone use were largely used up already (today they are close to non existent, even if you have a limitless budget), and it probably just made the sound engineers sleep a lot better at night, hehe.
I believe the mods they did made the mics sound exactly like they did with the AC701k, but with FET tech. Would be interesting to see exactly what they did, but they had a bigger budget and more expertise available to mod their m49's than some microphone manufactorers today have for developing and manufacturing entire microphone models, so I'm sure they managed to reach their goal of authentically recreating the AC701k sound. I don’t disagree with any of your reasoning and while never having the chance to use a Decca M49 I’m making an assumption, but I have yet to hear a FET M7 or K47 that did what a good 49 can. Believe me I have tried. I’ll admit you can get it in the family but you just don’t quite get there.
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Post by m03 on Aug 1, 2021 21:13:32 GMT -6
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 2, 2021 6:49:15 GMT -6
Ah, couldn't remember the text, could only remember the images, and it sort of looked like they still featured their original connections.
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 2, 2021 8:11:04 GMT -6
But wait... Aren't those mics in the beginning of the video a tad too long to be u47's? Or are my eyes fooling me?
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2021 9:01:55 GMT -6
But wait... Aren't those mics in the beginning of the video a tad too long to be u47's? Or are my eyes fooling me? The 49s he's referring to are further into the video at 2:38.
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 2, 2021 9:53:21 GMT -6
But wait... Aren't those mics in the beginning of the video a tad too long to be u47's? Or are my eyes fooling me? The 49s he's referring to are further into the video at 2:38. I'm the OP, and I've already got a good answer for what's going on with the m49's at 2:38, but I'm now wondering what is up with those 47-style microphones in the beginning of the video. I mean, the closest thing I can find to how long they are is the Voxorama u49 made by Andreas Grosser.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2021 10:23:04 GMT -6
The 49s he's referring to are further into the video at 2:38. I'm the OP, and I've already got a good answer for what's going on with the m49's at 2:38, but I'm now wondering what is up with those 47-style microphones in the beginning of the video. I mean, the closest thing I can find to how long they are is the Voxorama u49 made by Andreas Grosser. Oh. Sorry.
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Post by m03 on Aug 2, 2021 12:24:08 GMT -6
Ah, couldn't remember the text, could only remember the images, and it sort of looked like they still featured their original connections. Yeah, it looks like the original Tuchel (?) barrels were preserved on the ones in the auction. It's too bad there weren't any pics taken from the bottom so that we could see how that part of the conversion was handled. Though it could be that was the least sophisticated part of the conversion and pics of it were left out on purpose.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2021 13:39:47 GMT -6
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 2, 2021 14:33:54 GMT -6
Aha, that's one way of doing it, cool! I must say that I prefer Sony's method, which looks a lot more like the mic was designed that way. Thanks for the pictures! Also, supposedly they are THE best sounding m49's on the planet, outperforming the originals by providing the same mojo and sound, but with zero noise with no risk of having to splash out 2k for the ramaining crappy AC701k tubes that were all previously thrown in the "not fit for microphone useage" pile and would just make the microphone sound worse. Considering that the Decca engineers were audiophile fanatics of a different rank than any conventional studio engineer I've ever met, had access to a practically unlimited supply of NOS m49's at their fingertips, and demanded more sonic perfection than most other world class engineers, I'm quite willing to accept this as truth. If Decca felt that the sound was the same, then it would almost be way out there controversial to argue with that. But I'm guessing there will always be some controversy about that and people who want to mod them back to stock specs. Anyways, it would be nice to get ahold of a pair, that's for sure
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2021 16:19:00 GMT -6
As a classical vocalist who has done quite a few shootouts both publicly and privately I’ll say that mics of a similar nature will often show only subtle differences once you’ve placed them 2-3ft away. Especially when the source is a really good vocalist or instrumentalist. That said I’m intrigued and would love to hear one of these M49 FETs.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2021 16:42:25 GMT -6
As a classical vocalist who has done quite a few shootouts both publicly and privately I’ll say that mics of a similar nature will often show only subtle differences once you’ve placed them 2-3ft away. Especially when the source is a really good vocalist or instrumentalist. That said I’m intrigued and would love to hear one of these M49 FETs. I am kind of surprised nobody in the DIY world has done a deep dive on this one.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2021 16:59:15 GMT -6
As a classical vocalist who has done quite a few shootouts both publicly and privately I’ll say that mics of a similar nature will often show only subtle differences once you’ve placed them 2-3ft away. Especially when the source is a really good vocalist or instrumentalist. That said I’m intrigued and would love to hear one of these M49 FETs. I am kind of surprised nobody in the DIY world has done a deep dive on this one. Sounds like the perfect mod for the TLM49. FleA is attempting this with their FET 47 and 48 designs. Maybe they should look at this. Looks like Wunder has a FET 49. www.wunderaudio.com/CM49JFET/
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Post by samuelpepys on Aug 2, 2021 16:59:36 GMT -6
As a classical vocalist who has done quite a few shootouts both publicly and privately I’ll say that mics of a similar nature will often show only subtle differences once you’ve placed them 2-3ft away. Especially when the source is a really good vocalist or instrumentalist. That said I’m intrigued and would love to hear one of these M49 FETs. That's a good point!! And concidering that Decca and other classical music labels didn't close mic their talent for operas etc, and generally always had them at a distance of significantly more than three feet, I wouldn't be surprised if the conversion only made sure that the micriphones would sound 100% the same when used like they often used them. Maybe there would be a difference if you put a vocalist right in front and tried experimenting with proximity effect etc.
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Post by Hudsonic on Aug 11, 2021 18:22:40 GMT -6
Those are Decca M49 mics modified with a fet output. The give away is the red band around the top of the mic. At Decca red for cardioid and white for omni. I used to have Decca M50 mics with the same fet mod. They sounded excellent. Decca modified the mics to prevent down time on big orchestra sessions--to prevent a tube becoming unreliable and noisy. Not that this happened very often with the super stable ac701 tube.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 11, 2021 20:28:01 GMT -6
Those are Decca M49 mics modified with a fet output. The give away is the red band around the top of the mic. At Decca red for cardioid and blue for omni. I used to have Decca M50 mics with the same fet mod. They sounded excellent. Decca modified the mics to prevent down time on big orchestra sessions--to prevent a tube becoming unreliable and noisy. Not that this happened very often with the super stable ac701 tube. Atelier, could you describe the sonic difference between the DECCA vs the original M49.
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